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I know a bakery operator who said the health code required throwing away unsold baked goods with butter content at the end of the day, when I asked him about do

I know a bakery operator who said the health code required throwing away unsold baked goods with butter content at the end of the day, when I asked him about donating to the homeless. It's not evil or stupid. It's the law.

mustardo 8y ago
A law can be evil and or stupid...
Dylan16807 8y ago
I'd want to see a specific law citation before I believe that. I'm sure you're trying to report what he said accurately, but he may have been misleading or mistaken.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  "The food shall be cooked and served, served if ready to eat, or discarded within 4 hours from the point in time when the food is removed from temperature control;" https://www.ehso.uic.edu/UserFiles/Servers/Server_82316/File/Food%20and%20Bio/ILLINOIS%20Food%20Service%20Sanitation%20Code%202008.pdf https://www.ehso.uic.edu/UserFiles/Servers/Server_82316/File... pg 36 It's in a different state (each has their own code), but it'll do.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    That only applies to "potentially hazardous food". A baked good doesn't fit the definition. Butter in the recipe doesn't matter. A cream filling might, so perhaps that caused some confusion? Also "four hours" isn't really an "end of the day" thing... And if they're in temperature control at the end of the day, then four hours is plenty of time to get them distributed and consumed.
    - skookumchuck 8y ago
      Baked goods, like cakes, are made fresh each morning. They are served at room temperature. At the end of the day, they are thrown out because the health code says so. 4 hours is the Illinois limit. Here's an FDA list of TCS (Temperature Controlled for Safety) foods: https://www.education.ne.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ListPHF.pdf https://www.education.ne.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/List... Note butter, whipped cream, eggs, all part of frosting and fillings for baked goods. Here's the 4 hour window again: https://www.statefoodsafety.com/Resources/article/category/Resources/article/time-temperature-control-for-safety-tcs-foods-poster https://www.statefoodsafety.com/Resources/article/category/R...
      - moate 8y ago
        From a chemical standpoint: butter/eggs mixed with sugar (even if it's cooked) is substantially different and more likely to spoil than butter/egg mixed with flour and cooked. You should throw out cakes and cream puffs. You can donate bagels and challah bread.
  - whiskeyocelot 8y ago
    The section you cite applies to 'potentially hazardous foods', which generally are foods held at hot or cold temperature, not baked goods held at room temperature (even baked goods with butter in them).
  - moate 8y ago
    I'm HACCP Certified: That's an odd interpretation of the law. From the section you're quoting: "If time only, rather than time in conjunction with temperature, is used as the public health control for a working supply of potentially hazardous food before cooking, or for ready-to-eat potentially hazardous food that is displayed or held for service for immediate consumption" Many baked goods are not considered "potentially hazardous foods". Things filled or frosted fall into a different grouping, but most plain breads (even those including eggs or butter) are shelf stable for days. They suffer a sever drop in culinary quality (ie; stale) but they don't suffer a drop in culinary safety. Maybe the guy is extremely risk averse, maybe his area has a very zealous food safety department, but it seems like he's not super interested in trying to make this happen (which is fine, he can spend his time doing whatever he want).

mustardo 8y ago

A law can be evil and or stupid...

Dylan16807 8y ago

I'd want to see a specific law citation before I believe that. I'm sure you're trying to report what he said accurately, but he may have been misleading or mistaken.

skookumchuck 8y ago
"The food shall be cooked and served, served if ready to eat, or discarded within 4 hours from the point in time when the food is removed from temperature control;" https://www.ehso.uic.edu/UserFiles/Servers/Server_82316/File/Food%20and%20Bio/ILLINOIS%20Food%20Service%20Sanitation%20Code%202008.pdf https://www.ehso.uic.edu/UserFiles/Servers/Server_82316/File... pg 36 It's in a different state (each has their own code), but it'll do.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  That only applies to "potentially hazardous food". A baked good doesn't fit the definition. Butter in the recipe doesn't matter. A cream filling might, so perhaps that caused some confusion? Also "four hours" isn't really an "end of the day" thing... And if they're in temperature control at the end of the day, then four hours is plenty of time to get them distributed and consumed.
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    Baked goods, like cakes, are made fresh each morning. They are served at room temperature. At the end of the day, they are thrown out because the health code says so. 4 hours is the Illinois limit. Here's an FDA list of TCS (Temperature Controlled for Safety) foods: https://www.education.ne.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ListPHF.pdf https://www.education.ne.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/List... Note butter, whipped cream, eggs, all part of frosting and fillings for baked goods. Here's the 4 hour window again: https://www.statefoodsafety.com/Resources/article/category/Resources/article/time-temperature-control-for-safety-tcs-foods-poster https://www.statefoodsafety.com/Resources/article/category/R...
    - moate 8y ago
      From a chemical standpoint: butter/eggs mixed with sugar (even if it's cooked) is substantially different and more likely to spoil than butter/egg mixed with flour and cooked. You should throw out cakes and cream puffs. You can donate bagels and challah bread.
- whiskeyocelot 8y ago
  The section you cite applies to 'potentially hazardous foods', which generally are foods held at hot or cold temperature, not baked goods held at room temperature (even baked goods with butter in them).
- moate 8y ago
  I'm HACCP Certified: That's an odd interpretation of the law. From the section you're quoting: "If time only, rather than time in conjunction with temperature, is used as the public health control for a working supply of potentially hazardous food before cooking, or for ready-to-eat potentially hazardous food that is displayed or held for service for immediate consumption" Many baked goods are not considered "potentially hazardous foods". Things filled or frosted fall into a different grouping, but most plain breads (even those including eggs or butter) are shelf stable for days. They suffer a sever drop in culinary quality (ie; stale) but they don't suffer a drop in culinary safety. Maybe the guy is extremely risk averse, maybe his area has a very zealous food safety department, but it seems like he's not super interested in trying to make this happen (which is fine, he can spend his time doing whatever he want).