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I always remember that Noah's Bagels would make certain to throw away excess bagels at the end of the day. It's probably, unfortunately, America-specific, but w

I always remember that Noah's Bagels would make certain to throw away excess bagels at the end of the day. It's probably, unfortunately, America-specific, but when I asked why staff said if they gave away "old" baked-goods and someone were to get sick they would be liable to lawsuit.

Cthulhu_ 8y ago
A bakery will still try to optimize supply and demand as much as possible; machine learning algorithms can help with things like that as well (predicting demand). For a bagel shop it'll also help if they can produce something on short notice. Of course, said shops will also need to have something on display at all times to lure customers in, so there will always be some waste. As long as the percentage of waste remains low it should be fine. Besides, food waste isn't too bad for the environment (relatively), it's fully biodegradable.
Kalium 8y ago
Generally speaking, there are Good Samaritan laws that avoid that. The issue more often is that stores don't want to deal with the headaches that can stem from being a place for those who are unhoused to congregate for free food. It's rarely good for business.
- seszett 8y ago
  Usually though (in France at least) it's not the shop giving out free bagels at the back after they close down, they hand the leftovers to local associations that do the redistribution part.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
skookumchuck 8y ago
I know a bakery operator who said the health code required throwing away unsold baked goods with butter content at the end of the day, when I asked him about donating to the homeless. It's not evil or stupid. It's the law.
- mustardo 8y ago
  A law can be evil and or stupid...
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  I'd want to see a specific law citation before I believe that. I'm sure you're trying to report what he said accurately, but he may have been misleading or mistaken.
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    "The food shall be cooked and served, served if ready to eat, or discarded within 4 hours from the point in time when the food is removed from temperature control;" https://www.ehso.uic.edu/UserFiles/Servers/Server_82316/File/Food%20and%20Bio/ILLINOIS%20Food%20Service%20Sanitation%20Code%202008.pdf https://www.ehso.uic.edu/UserFiles/Servers/Server_82316/File... pg 36 It's in a different state (each has their own code), but it'll do.
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      That only applies to "potentially hazardous food". A baked good doesn't fit the definition. Butter in the recipe doesn't matter. A cream filling might, so perhaps that caused some confusion? Also "four hours" isn't really an "end of the day" thing... And if they're in temperature control at the end of the day, then four hours is plenty of time to get them distributed and consumed.
      - skookumchuck 8y ago
        Baked goods, like cakes, are made fresh each morning. They are served at room temperature. At the end of the day, they are thrown out because the health code says so. 4 hours is the Illinois limit. Here's an FDA list of TCS (Temperature Controlled for Safety) foods: https://www.education.ne.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ListPHF.pdf https://www.education.ne.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/List... Note butter, whipped cream, eggs, all part of frosting and fillings for baked goods. Here's the 4 hour window again: https://www.statefoodsafety.com/Resources/article/category/Resources/article/time-temperature-control-for-safety-tcs-foods-poster https://www.statefoodsafety.com/Resources/article/category/R...
drewmol 8y ago
It's unfortunately a popularly repeated belief it's just FUD without any supporting evidence. Usually the real answer is simply that it's cheaper to discard.
maaaats 8y ago
It's often about incentives. Why buy if you can wait until the shop is about to close and get it for free? Or as an employee, why care about food wastage if it gives you lot of free goods you can take home?

Cthulhu_ 8y ago

A bakery will still try to optimize supply and demand as much as possible; machine learning algorithms can help with things like that as well (predicting demand). For a bagel shop it'll also help if they can produce something on short notice. Of course, said shops will also need to have something on display at all times to lure customers in, so there will always be some waste. As long as the percentage of waste remains low it should be fine. Besides, food waste isn't too bad for the environment (relatively), it's fully biodegradable.

Kalium 8y ago

Generally speaking, there are Good Samaritan laws that avoid that. The issue more often is that stores don't want to deal with the headaches that can stem from being a place for those who are unhoused to congregate for free food. It's rarely good for business.

seszett 8y ago
Usually though (in France at least) it's not the shop giving out free bagels at the back after they close down, they hand the leftovers to local associations that do the redistribution part.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

skookumchuck 8y ago

I know a bakery operator who said the health code required throwing away unsold baked goods with butter content at the end of the day, when I asked him about donating to the homeless. It's not evil or stupid. It's the law.

mustardo 8y ago
A law can be evil and or stupid...
Dylan16807 8y ago
I'd want to see a specific law citation before I believe that. I'm sure you're trying to report what he said accurately, but he may have been misleading or mistaken.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  "The food shall be cooked and served, served if ready to eat, or discarded within 4 hours from the point in time when the food is removed from temperature control;" https://www.ehso.uic.edu/UserFiles/Servers/Server_82316/File/Food%20and%20Bio/ILLINOIS%20Food%20Service%20Sanitation%20Code%202008.pdf https://www.ehso.uic.edu/UserFiles/Servers/Server_82316/File... pg 36 It's in a different state (each has their own code), but it'll do.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    That only applies to "potentially hazardous food". A baked good doesn't fit the definition. Butter in the recipe doesn't matter. A cream filling might, so perhaps that caused some confusion? Also "four hours" isn't really an "end of the day" thing... And if they're in temperature control at the end of the day, then four hours is plenty of time to get them distributed and consumed.
    - skookumchuck 8y ago
      Baked goods, like cakes, are made fresh each morning. They are served at room temperature. At the end of the day, they are thrown out because the health code says so. 4 hours is the Illinois limit. Here's an FDA list of TCS (Temperature Controlled for Safety) foods: https://www.education.ne.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ListPHF.pdf https://www.education.ne.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/List... Note butter, whipped cream, eggs, all part of frosting and fillings for baked goods. Here's the 4 hour window again: https://www.statefoodsafety.com/Resources/article/category/Resources/article/time-temperature-control-for-safety-tcs-foods-poster https://www.statefoodsafety.com/Resources/article/category/R...

drewmol 8y ago

It's unfortunately a popularly repeated belief it's just FUD without any supporting evidence. Usually the real answer is simply that it's cheaper to discard.

maaaats 8y ago

It's often about incentives. Why buy if you can wait until the shop is about to close and get it for free? Or as an employee, why care about food wastage if it gives you lot of free goods you can take home?