7 ms·

The difference being that the FAANG-type companies don't pay well enough to make up for the cost of living. Senior engineers seldom want to live in tiny apartme

by burfog 8y ago

The difference being that the FAANG-type companies don't pay well enough to make up for the cost of living. Senior engineers seldom want to live in tiny apartments. See if you can prove me wrong: find a 10-acre lot within a half hour commute, with a large single-family home, that is affordable to a senior engineer. Alternately, make it 1 acre, but within a 5-minute commute.

haditab 8y ago
Your somehow assuming cost of living is only high around FAANG. Bay area is full of non-FAANG companies that pay significantly less. Faang doesn't struggle to hire senior because they're the only places that affords to pay enough.
gregw134 8y ago
A football field is 1.3 acres, so a 1 acre lot is going to be expensive anywhere.
- randallsquared 8y ago
  Uh, no. A quick perusal of real estate listings in towns all over flyover country will disabuse you of that notion. It's a little harder to find a house on an acre of land with 1Gib fiber, but if you're willing to settle for mere cable speeds, it's very, very easy.
twblalock 8y ago
> See if you can prove me wrong: find a 10-acre lot within a half hour commute, with a large single-family home, that is affordable to a senior engineer. Alternately, make it 1 acre, but within a 5-minute commute. That seems excessive. You certainly don't need to live on a multi-acre lot to have a good life. I work at a FAANG and most of my colleagues own single-family homes and have no problem paying their mortgages. Of course they aren't on 10-acre lots -- we aren't in the middle of nowhere, we are in a city.
burlesona 8y ago
I understand what you’re saying but I think you’re underestimating how many people like city life. I work in SF and most of the people here are here specifically because they DONT want to live on ten acres in some rural place, they love that the city is walkable and dense and interesting. For most folks the issue of living in condos or apartments it’s an issue at all until they reach a certain family size. At that point, most of the people in the city would be thrilled to live in a 3-4 bedroom townhome in the city — but THAT is where SF gets really difficult, because those cost $4 million or more these days. Actually for many people they feel trapped because they’d like a LITTLE more space, ie. the Victorian townhome, but they specifically DO NOT want a car or a yard and do not want to leave the historic, walkable city. At that point you’re really screwed because outside of SF there is basically nothing else walkable west of the Mississippi. So there’s nowhere to go. If somehow magically you could build a 1900s Victorian townhome city about 30’ away by train I think you’d find a couple million urban Californians wanted to move there. But of course the sprawl all around the job centers, and the regulatory environment, both make that impossible. Oh well.
- masonic 8y ago
  outside of SF there is basically nothing else walkable west of the Mississippi What a sad perception.
  - crazygringo 8y ago
    So where is it? Where can you live outside of SF that you don't need a car and can live a normal adult lifestyle?
    - humanrebar 8y ago
      Plenty if you can cycle and get paid over $300k. If you had to, you could buy several walkable-to-work lots and join them into one big one in some cities. Or Uber literally everywhere.
      - EpicEng 8y ago
rockinghigh 8y ago
Living on a 10-acre lot sounds like a nightmare.
- sethammons 8y ago
  Why? I'm on 10 acres. I like it for the isolation. Just got it, so maintaining and improvements are going to be interesting and a big learning opportunity.
  - paulcole 8y ago
    Some people hate maintenance and isolation as much as you like it.
    - sethammons 8y ago
      Sure. I guess I should have been more explicit in my reply: I felt the above comment was lacking in content; why would they not want 10 acres.
      - paulcole 8y ago
        Here’s my answer: I have no interest in living so far away from a major urban center that I could have 10 acres. I have no interest in doing anything with land, farming, maintenance, whatever. My life is very simple and I’ve never lived in an apartment bigger than 600 square feet. The idea of 10 acres is insane to me.
        stephenr 8y ago
        What the shit. My carport is close to 680 sq.ft. I’ve lived in places smaller than that when I was young but that was necessity not choice.
        paulcole 8y ago
        I’m in my late 30s and I’ve never even driven a car. What would I do with a carport lol. It’s just a different mindset, I guess. I don’t have a ton of shit and just enjoy the minimal upkeep, simplicity, and other benefits of living in a small urban apartment.
joshuamorton 8y ago
Most people anywhere don't live on 10 acre lots (nor do they want to, I certainly don't!). But yes, a senior engineer can likely afford a large single family home relatively close to work (many of my co-workers do).
esoterica 8y ago
If you want a 10 acre lot then your lifestyle is simply incompatible with city living. It has nothing to do with money or cost of living; even the billionaires in San Francisco don't have 10 acre lots.
masonic 8y ago
A 10-acre lot is a ludicrous metric, and even 1 acre (for a residence) metric is unrealistic. I doubt most technical types even want the burden of upkeep for an acre+. At that point, the main thing you're buying is isolation.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  I think OP might have a wrong idea of what an acre is. That’s really the only way I can imagine the comment making sense.
  - souprock 8y ago
    It makes perfect sense as is. It is almost my experience. A coworker of mine bought 11 acres. (That's one more than 10. These lots go to 11...) He has sheep and goats and chickens, and he can shoot his AR-15 in his yard. Interestingly, he grew up in San Francisco. His current lifestyle is ridiculously incompatible with his city of origin. I settled for a little 0.4 acre lot with a modest 3500 square foot house. (1619 square meter lot, 325 square meter house) By settling for that, I got to live within a mile of the beach and within a mile of work, and I paid off the mortgage in 8 years without trying terribly hard. So that's close. I suspect you'd normally have to commute about 15 or 20 minutes to get a whole acre, and they go for $220,000 to $500,000. There is a house on 1.3 acre (like a football field) selling for $320,000 that is 11 minutes away, but the house was built in 1957. If you don't mind paying a couple million, you can be 5 minutes away with a modern waterfront home on an acre or two. So this is non-urban life. It's mostly not even rural; we have an airport with about 7 passenger jet flights arriving per day. Senior developers live in nice houses, paid-off unless they really go nuts. They can have waterfront access, or room for a horse, or room to shoot and raise sheep. They can get McMansions. They can live within walking distance of work. I just can't see giving that up. Sure, cable cars are cool and all, but that doesn't compensate for what I'd have to give up.
    - Aeolun 8y ago
      Meanwhile, here in Tokyo, a 100sqm lot goes for $700.000, an hour away from work. I can’t help but be a bit jealous, but it was really interesting to hear how different things can be.
landryraccoon 8y ago
> Alternately, make it 1 acre, but within a 5-minute commute. Wait what? What city are you talking about that has a tech hub or commercial center within a 5 minute commute of 1 acre homes?
- burlesona 8y ago
  Forget about a tech hub, what city with jobs at all. Ten acres is more like a small farm than a house, by definition at that lot size almost nothing can be within five minutes, lol.
  - souprock 8y ago
    My area almost qualifies. Right now there is a home on 1.16 acres going for $275,000 that is 7 minutes away from my employer and 10 minutes away from a rather large employer. We have sort of a specialist tech hub here, featuring stuff like radar and cyberwar. Lots of these companies are hiring. (mine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18819736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18819736) You can get more than ten acres if you are willing to commute a bit. I think 2.5 acres is the minimum lot size if you go south about 14 minutes from one of my workplace's buildings, or 22 minutes from the one I'm in. It is a small farm. Senior engineers can afford to live on hobby farms. Some of them expect to do so. It's not just here either; I've known people who did that in relatively rural parts of Massachusetts and Virginia too. I recall somebody on HackerNews proposing an interesting explanation for how people react. The available jobs get dismissed because you'd have to seriously consider moving (which is annoying) if you admitted that employment in these locations is viable.
philliphaydon 8y ago
10 acre is a lot of land. 435600 square feet intact. When I lived in NZ our home was on 9000 square feet. And that was a lot of space... I would think a fairer example is living in a landed home instead of an apartment. I’ve spent the last 11 years in apartments and just had a baby, now wanting to move back to NZ to have a landed home and back yard...
dlp211 8y ago
Stop looking at only the bay area. Google has offices in Pittsburgh, Kirkland, Austin, and Boulder. If you are willing to work at one of those locations, you can get pretty close to getting everything you want.

by burfog 8y ago

haditab 8y ago

Your somehow assuming cost of living is only high around FAANG. Bay area is full of non-FAANG companies that pay significantly less. Faang doesn't struggle to hire senior because they're the only places that affords to pay enough.

gregw134 8y ago

A football field is 1.3 acres, so a 1 acre lot is going to be expensive anywhere.

randallsquared 8y ago
Uh, no. A quick perusal of real estate listings in towns all over flyover country will disabuse you of that notion. It's a little harder to find a house on an acre of land with 1Gib fiber, but if you're willing to settle for mere cable speeds, it's very, very easy.

twblalock 8y ago

> See if you can prove me wrong: find a 10-acre lot within a half hour commute, with a large single-family home, that is affordable to a senior engineer. Alternately, make it 1 acre, but within a 5-minute commute. That seems excessive. You certainly don't need to live on a multi-acre lot to have a good life. I work at a FAANG and most of my colleagues own single-family homes and have no problem paying their mortgages. Of course they aren't on 10-acre lots -- we aren't in the middle of nowhere, we are in a city.

burlesona 8y ago

I understand what you’re saying but I think you’re underestimating how many people like city life. I work in SF and most of the people here are here specifically because they DONT want to live on ten acres in some rural place, they love that the city is walkable and dense and interesting. For most folks the issue of living in condos or apartments it’s an issue at all until they reach a certain family size. At that point, most of the people in the city would be thrilled to live in a 3-4 bedroom townhome in the city — but THAT is where SF gets really difficult, because those cost $4 million or more these days. Actually for many people they feel trapped because they’d like a LITTLE more space, ie. the Victorian townhome, but they specifically DO NOT want a car or a yard and do not want to leave the historic, walkable city. At that point you’re really screwed because outside of SF there is basically nothing else walkable west of the Mississippi. So there’s nowhere to go. If somehow magically you could build a 1900s Victorian townhome city about 30’ away by train I think you’d find a couple million urban Californians wanted to move there. But of course the sprawl all around the job centers, and the regulatory environment, both make that impossible. Oh well.

masonic 8y ago
outside of SF there is basically nothing else walkable west of the Mississippi What a sad perception.
- crazygringo 8y ago
  So where is it? Where can you live outside of SF that you don't need a car and can live a normal adult lifestyle?
  - humanrebar 8y ago
    Plenty if you can cycle and get paid over $300k. If you had to, you could buy several walkable-to-work lots and join them into one big one in some cities. Or Uber literally everywhere.
    - EpicEng 8y ago

rockinghigh 8y ago

Living on a 10-acre lot sounds like a nightmare.

sethammons 8y ago
Why? I'm on 10 acres. I like it for the isolation. Just got it, so maintaining and improvements are going to be interesting and a big learning opportunity.
- paulcole 8y ago
  Some people hate maintenance and isolation as much as you like it.
  - sethammons 8y ago
    Sure. I guess I should have been more explicit in my reply: I felt the above comment was lacking in content; why would they not want 10 acres.
    - paulcole 8y ago
      Here’s my answer: I have no interest in living so far away from a major urban center that I could have 10 acres. I have no interest in doing anything with land, farming, maintenance, whatever. My life is very simple and I’ve never lived in an apartment bigger than 600 square feet. The idea of 10 acres is insane to me.
      - stephenr 8y ago
        What the shit. My carport is close to 680 sq.ft. I’ve lived in places smaller than that when I was young but that was necessity not choice.
        paulcole 8y ago
        I’m in my late 30s and I’ve never even driven a car. What would I do with a carport lol. It’s just a different mindset, I guess. I don’t have a ton of shit and just enjoy the minimal upkeep, simplicity, and other benefits of living in a small urban apartment.

joshuamorton 8y ago

Most people anywhere don't live on 10 acre lots (nor do they want to, I certainly don't!). But yes, a senior engineer can likely afford a large single family home relatively close to work (many of my co-workers do).

esoterica 8y ago

If you want a 10 acre lot then your lifestyle is simply incompatible with city living. It has nothing to do with money or cost of living; even the billionaires in San Francisco don't have 10 acre lots.

masonic 8y ago

A 10-acre lot is a ludicrous metric, and even 1 acre (for a residence) metric is unrealistic. I doubt most technical types even want the burden of upkeep for an acre+. At that point, the main thing you're buying is isolation.

Aeolun 8y ago
I think OP might have a wrong idea of what an acre is. That’s really the only way I can imagine the comment making sense.
- souprock 8y ago
  It makes perfect sense as is. It is almost my experience. A coworker of mine bought 11 acres. (That's one more than 10. These lots go to 11...) He has sheep and goats and chickens, and he can shoot his AR-15 in his yard. Interestingly, he grew up in San Francisco. His current lifestyle is ridiculously incompatible with his city of origin. I settled for a little 0.4 acre lot with a modest 3500 square foot house. (1619 square meter lot, 325 square meter house) By settling for that, I got to live within a mile of the beach and within a mile of work, and I paid off the mortgage in 8 years without trying terribly hard. So that's close. I suspect you'd normally have to commute about 15 or 20 minutes to get a whole acre, and they go for $220,000 to $500,000. There is a house on 1.3 acre (like a football field) selling for $320,000 that is 11 minutes away, but the house was built in 1957. If you don't mind paying a couple million, you can be 5 minutes away with a modern waterfront home on an acre or two. So this is non-urban life. It's mostly not even rural; we have an airport with about 7 passenger jet flights arriving per day. Senior developers live in nice houses, paid-off unless they really go nuts. They can have waterfront access, or room for a horse, or room to shoot and raise sheep. They can get McMansions. They can live within walking distance of work. I just can't see giving that up. Sure, cable cars are cool and all, but that doesn't compensate for what I'd have to give up.
  - Aeolun 8y ago
    Meanwhile, here in Tokyo, a 100sqm lot goes for $700.000, an hour away from work. I can’t help but be a bit jealous, but it was really interesting to hear how different things can be.

landryraccoon 8y ago

> Alternately, make it 1 acre, but within a 5-minute commute. Wait what? What city are you talking about that has a tech hub or commercial center within a 5 minute commute of 1 acre homes?

burlesona 8y ago
Forget about a tech hub, what city with jobs at all. Ten acres is more like a small farm than a house, by definition at that lot size almost nothing can be within five minutes, lol.
- souprock 8y ago
  My area almost qualifies. Right now there is a home on 1.16 acres going for $275,000 that is 7 minutes away from my employer and 10 minutes away from a rather large employer. We have sort of a specialist tech hub here, featuring stuff like radar and cyberwar. Lots of these companies are hiring. (mine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18819736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18819736) You can get more than ten acres if you are willing to commute a bit. I think 2.5 acres is the minimum lot size if you go south about 14 minutes from one of my workplace's buildings, or 22 minutes from the one I'm in. It is a small farm. Senior engineers can afford to live on hobby farms. Some of them expect to do so. It's not just here either; I've known people who did that in relatively rural parts of Massachusetts and Virginia too. I recall somebody on HackerNews proposing an interesting explanation for how people react. The available jobs get dismissed because you'd have to seriously consider moving (which is annoying) if you admitted that employment in these locations is viable.

philliphaydon 8y ago

10 acre is a lot of land. 435600 square feet intact. When I lived in NZ our home was on 9000 square feet. And that was a lot of space... I would think a fairer example is living in a landed home instead of an apartment. I’ve spent the last 11 years in apartments and just had a baby, now wanting to move back to NZ to have a landed home and back yard...

dlp211 8y ago

Stop looking at only the bay area. Google has offices in Pittsburgh, Kirkland, Austin, and Boulder. If you are willing to work at one of those locations, you can get pretty close to getting everything you want.