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> But hitting back only works if you're stronger than them. Otherwise they'll just kick your ass and things will get worse. I can't even begin to list how many

by zavulon 16y ago

> But hitting back only works if you're stronger than them. Otherwise they'll just kick your ass and things will get worse. I can't even begin to list how many things are wrong with this. So fighting is only worth it when you know you're going to win? The author's point is if you stand up for yourself against a much bigger and stronger bully, you WILL get your ass kicked. But that's fine. Everybody gets their ass kicked once in a while. But the fact that you were not afraid to stand up for yourself gets you respect. The bullies will likely move on onto the easier targets that don't fight back. I agree with 99% of this article. Except this: > I’ve got some sets of names I’d name my sons as they’re born. They’re unconventional names – Cosimo Marshall or Aurelius Marshall if the boy’s mother was Italian, Zhuge Marshall if he was Chinese. The boy will likely get teased. Ya think?? And even though you realize it, you're still planning to do it? I'm sure the kid will be VERY grateful when he grows up.

chc 16y ago
Naming a kid something that will get him teased makes about as much sense as picking a fight with someone you know will beat you. In fact, Sebastian actually says the weird names are a way of picking a fight with the bullies of the world, just like you approved of earlier.
- nailer 16y ago
  If you hurt someone, they wont want to attack you again, regardless of who wins.
  - maxawaytoolong 16y ago
    Yeah right, this is exactly what they want to do. It's bizarre this is even considered, because this whole thread is filled with revenge fantasies about bullies. Why would you think the bully is just going to think "oh yes, zhuge omarion lionhearted is the superior fighter, I concede" like in some corny kung-fu movie? If you hurt a bully, they are just going to plot out how they are going to hurt you worse the next chance they get... Finally, if violence is truly the answer, why not just go all-out Columbine from the beginning? There's no more bullying when the bully is dead. Then the problem is truly "solved," right?
    - gaius 16y ago
      If you hurt a bully, they are just going to plot out how they are going to hurt you worse the next chance they get... It doesn't work like that. In practice, the bully will take the path of least resistance and pick on someone else. Which sucks for them, but the hierarchy has now shifted - the original victim has moved up, but the capability/social capital of the new lowest member of the group is still higher than theirs was. It doesn't take many iterations of this cycle before the bully will either meet their match or have a critical mass of the class openly against them. This happened in my primary school, actually, the bully in this case was a kid who'd been held back from a higher year. Eventually simply no-one would talk to him. Problem solved.
    - chc 16y ago
      I don't want this to sound like a personal attack, but I just have to point it out: You're the one engaging in hyperbole and apparent speculation here, while many of the people who say violence does work are citing personal experience in the matter. I honestly don't have enough experience to know who's right and on what specifics (I never even went to public school, much less got bullied there), but the suggestion that shooting up your school is equivalent to defending yourself does not lend a lot of credibility to what you're saying.
    - nailer 16y ago
      I think that humans don't like getting hurt. What's so difficult to understand about that? yhe above simple logic and my own personal experience fighting back is what this is based on, not some corny Kung foo movie. Don't put words into others mouths, its rude and unnecessary. Re your going columbine troll, the response should be limited to what's required. Snd, obviously, violence is already the supreme authority and final resort in society - that's what police and the military are for.
    - gte910h 16y ago
      In my experience: Hurt them once, they move on. (I was picked on a lot when young (I was freakishly tall for my age, like 8-12 inches taller than anyone else)). I had several prolonged bullying experiences finally curtailed by eventual violence in the end. I usually got in trouble for it too. I have no clue today if they did. I do know: they stopped. Bullying isn't about you to the bully. Its about them, and picking on someone. The someone isn't that important, and when you become the someone who is more expensive to screw with, they leave you alone usually. (And I think this sort of thing as an adult is stupid and a good way to go to jail, but at 10, it works fine).
- zavulon 16y ago
  I never approved of "picking a fight with bullies". I approve of defending yourself if a fight has found you, and you have a choice of either fighting or accepting the bullying. Naming your kid a name to MAKE SURE he gets bullied in order for him to grow up tough sounds insane to me... regardless of the great Johnny Cash song
jasonshen 16y ago
This might be a reason for the weird name: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/johnnycash/aboynamedsue.html http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/johnnycash/aboynamedsue.html
- joezydeco 16y ago
  Ya might want to learn yerself a little history about that song, son... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Boy_Named_Sue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Boy_Named_Sue "The core story of the song was inspired by humorist Jean Shepherd, a close friend of Shel Silverstein, who was often taunted as a child because of his feminine-sounding name." You might recognize Jean Shepherd as the author of the stories that were turned into the holiday movie A Christmas Story (he also served as narrator in that movie) Extra Credit: Watch the Scut Farkus beatdown scene again.
rue 16y ago
I just found the apparent thought that he was going to be the sole decider of the name amusing.
hawflakes 16y ago
Zhuge is indeed a weird Chinese surname. So he'd have two surnames? At the same time Zhuge Liang was a great military strategist, which I'm sure you'd make clear to him.
- xom 16y ago
  Not only is Zhuge a surname, but also, my (Chinese) parents once told me that it's taboo to name a child after someone; not sure if that's true in all parts though.
JohnnyBrown 16y ago
Not to mention that the first time you get hit in the face will teach you more about fighting than all the Youtube Muay Thai videos in the world
- gaius 16y ago
  True story: I did martial arts as a kid, and one thing that instructors teach you is that breaking someones nose will finish the fight. Years later, at a party, I got into a fight with a punk (I mean a real punk, with a stupid haircut). He was acting like a twat, bothering people, like they do, and I told him to piss off and he headbutted me in the face, breaking my nose. And actually, while not something you'd want to happen every day, it's not too bad, a lot of blood but it doesn't really hurt. Then I kicked his ass.
lionhearted 16y ago
Good comment. > Ya think?? And even though you realize it, you're still planning to do it? I'm sure the kid will be VERY grateful when he grows up. Unconventional names get you teased as a kid, and remembered as an adult. I think it's a good tradeoff.
- cromulent 16y ago
  Well, it worked for Marion Robert Morrison. He grew up to be John Wayne.

by zavulon 16y ago

chc 16y ago

Naming a kid something that will get him teased makes about as much sense as picking a fight with someone you know will beat you. In fact, Sebastian actually says the weird names are a way of picking a fight with the bullies of the world, just like you approved of earlier.

nailer 16y ago
If you hurt someone, they wont want to attack you again, regardless of who wins.
- maxawaytoolong 16y ago
  Yeah right, this is exactly what they want to do. It's bizarre this is even considered, because this whole thread is filled with revenge fantasies about bullies. Why would you think the bully is just going to think "oh yes, zhuge omarion lionhearted is the superior fighter, I concede" like in some corny kung-fu movie? If you hurt a bully, they are just going to plot out how they are going to hurt you worse the next chance they get... Finally, if violence is truly the answer, why not just go all-out Columbine from the beginning? There's no more bullying when the bully is dead. Then the problem is truly "solved," right?
  - gaius 16y ago
    If you hurt a bully, they are just going to plot out how they are going to hurt you worse the next chance they get... It doesn't work like that. In practice, the bully will take the path of least resistance and pick on someone else. Which sucks for them, but the hierarchy has now shifted - the original victim has moved up, but the capability/social capital of the new lowest member of the group is still higher than theirs was. It doesn't take many iterations of this cycle before the bully will either meet their match or have a critical mass of the class openly against them. This happened in my primary school, actually, the bully in this case was a kid who'd been held back from a higher year. Eventually simply no-one would talk to him. Problem solved.
  - chc 16y ago
    I don't want this to sound like a personal attack, but I just have to point it out: You're the one engaging in hyperbole and apparent speculation here, while many of the people who say violence does work are citing personal experience in the matter. I honestly don't have enough experience to know who's right and on what specifics (I never even went to public school, much less got bullied there), but the suggestion that shooting up your school is equivalent to defending yourself does not lend a lot of credibility to what you're saying.
  - nailer 16y ago
    I think that humans don't like getting hurt. What's so difficult to understand about that? yhe above simple logic and my own personal experience fighting back is what this is based on, not some corny Kung foo movie. Don't put words into others mouths, its rude and unnecessary. Re your going columbine troll, the response should be limited to what's required. Snd, obviously, violence is already the supreme authority and final resort in society - that's what police and the military are for.
  - gte910h 16y ago
    In my experience: Hurt them once, they move on. (I was picked on a lot when young (I was freakishly tall for my age, like 8-12 inches taller than anyone else)). I had several prolonged bullying experiences finally curtailed by eventual violence in the end. I usually got in trouble for it too. I have no clue today if they did. I do know: they stopped. Bullying isn't about you to the bully. Its about them, and picking on someone. The someone isn't that important, and when you become the someone who is more expensive to screw with, they leave you alone usually. (And I think this sort of thing as an adult is stupid and a good way to go to jail, but at 10, it works fine).
zavulon 16y ago
I never approved of "picking a fight with bullies". I approve of defending yourself if a fight has found you, and you have a choice of either fighting or accepting the bullying. Naming your kid a name to MAKE SURE he gets bullied in order for him to grow up tough sounds insane to me... regardless of the great Johnny Cash song

jasonshen 16y ago

This might be a reason for the weird name: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/johnnycash/aboynamedsue.html http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/johnnycash/aboynamedsue.html

joezydeco 16y ago
Ya might want to learn yerself a little history about that song, son... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Boy_Named_Sue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Boy_Named_Sue "The core story of the song was inspired by humorist Jean Shepherd, a close friend of Shel Silverstein, who was often taunted as a child because of his feminine-sounding name." You might recognize Jean Shepherd as the author of the stories that were turned into the holiday movie A Christmas Story (he also served as narrator in that movie) Extra Credit: Watch the Scut Farkus beatdown scene again.

rue 16y ago

I just found the apparent thought that he was going to be the sole decider of the name amusing.

hawflakes 16y ago

Zhuge is indeed a weird Chinese surname. So he'd have two surnames? At the same time Zhuge Liang was a great military strategist, which I'm sure you'd make clear to him.

xom 16y ago
Not only is Zhuge a surname, but also, my (Chinese) parents once told me that it's taboo to name a child after someone; not sure if that's true in all parts though.

JohnnyBrown 16y ago

Not to mention that the first time you get hit in the face will teach you more about fighting than all the Youtube Muay Thai videos in the world

gaius 16y ago
True story: I did martial arts as a kid, and one thing that instructors teach you is that breaking someones nose will finish the fight. Years later, at a party, I got into a fight with a punk (I mean a real punk, with a stupid haircut). He was acting like a twat, bothering people, like they do, and I told him to piss off and he headbutted me in the face, breaking my nose. And actually, while not something you'd want to happen every day, it's not too bad, a lot of blood but it doesn't really hurt. Then I kicked his ass.

lionhearted 16y ago

Good comment. > Ya think?? And even though you realize it, you're still planning to do it? I'm sure the kid will be VERY grateful when he grows up. Unconventional names get you teased as a kid, and remembered as an adult. I think it's a good tradeoff.

cromulent 16y ago
Well, it worked for Marion Robert Morrison. He grew up to be John Wayne.