3 ms·

We've gone from "the process has performed an illegal operation" and "file not found" to "Oops!" and "we looked everywhere, but..."

zozbot123 8y ago
Linux has had "oops" for ages, though.
- TheRealPomax 8y ago
  Linux has had everything for ages, and that's kind of its problem, too. Everything that fits in one bin will have a counterpart somewhere that fits in the opposite bin.
- dfox 8y ago
  With the crucial difference that the somewhat funny message is followed by actual detailed description of what happened instead of "something went wrong".
  - anoncoward111 8y ago
    "Something went wrong" ugh, I HATE it so much, and they don't even dispatch a highly trained team of monkeys to fix it either.
bitwize 8y ago
Again, pretend you're a normie and imagine how you'd react when you are told that your computer has performed an illegal operation. That's the sort of phrasing you don't want to inflict on everyday users.
- gsich 8y ago
  Then rephrase "illegal" instead of "oops". Btw, also "normies" can learn something new.
  - bitwize 8y ago
    I agree that a message like "This program attempted to do something the system won't allow" would be far more useful, along with a "more info" button with a more detailed error description behind it. It sure beats "oops" and "something went wrong". But people tend to forget what a computer said or did and remember how it made them feel. So the market pressure is toward mollycoddling error messages and away from informative ones. (Also, the word "oops" was chosen because it connotes "something went wrong and it's our fault" -- probably chosen to avoid implying that it was the user's fault. Really ingenious, again, if your goal is to keep users comfortable rather than fully informing them.)
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  > Again, pretend you're a normie and And right here is why modern tech is so condescending.
  - bitwize 8y ago
    Okay, then how about "pretend you're a human" as opposed to the lizard people who design and write computer software. Spin it however you like. You still have to make the distinction between techies and "the rest of us". Systems have been designed that do not make this distinction and assume the user will be able to figure everything out, the most notorious of which is Unix -- when unadorned with Apple treacle, arguably one of the most user-hostile systems in common use. Normies perceive Unix as being more arrogant than the systems which "condescend" to them. It seems to say "Oh, you don't belong to the super-secret cabal of users who know these arcane commands? Fuck you, then!"
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
      > You still have to make the distinction between techies and "the rest of us" The language you use for this is important because it shapes the way you think about the difference. The way it is often phrased is in the form of "we're special, better, smarter, people than those dumb people who have no hope of understanding the arcane magicks we are naturally attune to". Which is of course bull. We have specialized knowledge and familiarity from spending years working with this stuff. That's it. > [UNIX]... seems to say "Oh, you don't belong to the super-secret cabal of users who know these arcane commands? Fuck you, then!" It seems to say that because that's exactly what UNIX says. They don't even name commands sensibly, not even in 2019. Discoverability basically doesn't exist.
    - zozbot123 8y ago
      > Systems have been designed that ... assume the user will be able to figure everything out, [such as] Unix -- ... arguably one of the most user-hostile systems in common use. Um, you do know that Unix used to come with user manuals? Like, oh I dunno, the vast majority of software in the 1980s and early 1990s? The designers of Unix and comparable systems were perfectly aware that command-line incantations cannot be figured out simply by sitting at the system and playing with it; this is very much not what it was designed for! If discoverability by novice users is a priority, then that is an argument for menu-driven, interactive interfaces and UIs - which could well be built on top of something like UNIX. But documentation is always going to be important.

zozbot123 8y ago

Linux has had "oops" for ages, though.

TheRealPomax 8y ago
Linux has had everything for ages, and that's kind of its problem, too. Everything that fits in one bin will have a counterpart somewhere that fits in the opposite bin.
dfox 8y ago
With the crucial difference that the somewhat funny message is followed by actual detailed description of what happened instead of "something went wrong".
- anoncoward111 8y ago
  "Something went wrong" ugh, I HATE it so much, and they don't even dispatch a highly trained team of monkeys to fix it either.

bitwize 8y ago

Again, pretend you're a normie and imagine how you'd react when you are told that your computer has performed an illegal operation. That's the sort of phrasing you don't want to inflict on everyday users.

gsich 8y ago
Then rephrase "illegal" instead of "oops". Btw, also "normies" can learn something new.
- bitwize 8y ago
  I agree that a message like "This program attempted to do something the system won't allow" would be far more useful, along with a "more info" button with a more detailed error description behind it. It sure beats "oops" and "something went wrong". But people tend to forget what a computer said or did and remember how it made them feel. So the market pressure is toward mollycoddling error messages and away from informative ones. (Also, the word "oops" was chosen because it connotes "something went wrong and it's our fault" -- probably chosen to avoid implying that it was the user's fault. Really ingenious, again, if your goal is to keep users comfortable rather than fully informing them.)
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
> Again, pretend you're a normie and And right here is why modern tech is so condescending.
- bitwize 8y ago
  Okay, then how about "pretend you're a human" as opposed to the lizard people who design and write computer software. Spin it however you like. You still have to make the distinction between techies and "the rest of us". Systems have been designed that do not make this distinction and assume the user will be able to figure everything out, the most notorious of which is Unix -- when unadorned with Apple treacle, arguably one of the most user-hostile systems in common use. Normies perceive Unix as being more arrogant than the systems which "condescend" to them. It seems to say "Oh, you don't belong to the super-secret cabal of users who know these arcane commands? Fuck you, then!"
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    > You still have to make the distinction between techies and "the rest of us" The language you use for this is important because it shapes the way you think about the difference. The way it is often phrased is in the form of "we're special, better, smarter, people than those dumb people who have no hope of understanding the arcane magicks we are naturally attune to". Which is of course bull. We have specialized knowledge and familiarity from spending years working with this stuff. That's it. > [UNIX]... seems to say "Oh, you don't belong to the super-secret cabal of users who know these arcane commands? Fuck you, then!" It seems to say that because that's exactly what UNIX says. They don't even name commands sensibly, not even in 2019. Discoverability basically doesn't exist.
  - zozbot123 8y ago
    > Systems have been designed that ... assume the user will be able to figure everything out, [such as] Unix -- ... arguably one of the most user-hostile systems in common use. Um, you do know that Unix used to come with user manuals? Like, oh I dunno, the vast majority of software in the 1980s and early 1990s? The designers of Unix and comparable systems were perfectly aware that command-line incantations cannot be figured out simply by sitting at the system and playing with it; this is very much not what it was designed for! If discoverability by novice users is a priority, then that is an argument for menu-driven, interactive interfaces and UIs - which could well be built on top of something like UNIX. But documentation is always going to be important.