17 ms·

Most “ugly” produce gets turned into soups, sauces, salsa, jam

349 points by apsec112 8y ago

User23 8y ago
Let's not forget the old favorite: burn it in an alembic and drink it!
warp_factor 8y ago
I thought those sets of tweets interesting and would love to have the views of other people in this field. I have some friends in silicon valley that subscribed to this online delivery service for ugly produce: https://www.imperfectproduce.com https://www.imperfectproduce.com It looks to me like a mix of too much disposable income, and getting brag rights at dinner party for virtue signaling.
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  Mostly virtue signaling, and a clever way for the producer / seller to actually get more money for their produce than "nice looking" would - a LOT more than if it were used in a factory product where it would normally end up in.
- mneubrand 8y ago
  I'm subscribed to change my consumption habits and it has worked for the most part. I usually don't buy enough fruit and vegetables when I shop for myself and avoid certain vegetables completely. Imperfect fixes this for me. Fruit and vegetables just appear every week and once they're in my home I"m too cheap to let them go to waste so I end up eating them. I'd subscribe to normal produce delivery instead if that were an option. I don't really care about the "imperfect" part and the premium over my local supermarket is pretty negligible
bjowen 8y ago
Welp that’s a rant. Here’s an example where integrated supply chains and arbitrary supermarket standards cause eye-watering levels of waste: https://vimeo.com/223234033 https://vimeo.com/223234033
- zeroname 8y ago
  Actually it isn't. It's the same kind of poor research that the rant is about. Those are cosmetic specifications for supermarket stock, nowhere does it say what happens with the produce that doesn't meet them. It's simply insinuated that it goes to waste, but that isn't true. The supermarkets know very well what kind of produce doesn't sell, so these specs actually prevent waste, because unsold produce that is about to spoil really does go to waste.
  - neRok 8y ago
    If you had watched the 2min video, you would have seen the bananas being dumped in piles - a banana mountain. Here is an article on the same video: https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/war-on-waste-craig-reucassel-reveals-the-shocking-truth-about-our-bananas/news-story/ddd59b65712f4649fc74b3f803520776 https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/war-on-waste... Other people and the original source mention food rotting because it cannot be picked before it spoils, which is probably a problem. But in the case of these bananas, they have been picked and made it all the way to a sorting facility, and could be sent to somewhere for consumption. These bananas may be worse than the ones that rot in the field, because they are responsible for additional energy and labour expenditure.
    - zeroname 8y ago
      The post originally linked to a youtube video of that same guy sitting in front of a laptop, researching specs. I did watch that one. Again, even if those bananas see no other use than being dumped, that doesn’t mean they would’ve been consumed by actual humans if it hadn’t been for those standards. Some other organism will consume them instead.
bradknowles 8y ago
Is there something wrong with that?
feross 8y ago
> The "eat ugly fruit!" movement is classist as FUCK. You've got to have a debilitating level of ignorance to assume that if Whole Paycheck Market doesn't stock ugly fruit, it must be getting "wasted." It is possible to not know much about the agricultural industry without being "classist as fuck." There are an infinite number of things one can learn about and a finite amount of time. While the content is interesting, I find the condescending tone off-putting. Are there advantages to this communication style that I'm missing?
- dankusmcmeme 8y ago
  >Are there advantages to this communication style that I'm missing? Wokeness points
- zeroname 8y ago
  > It is possible to not know much about the agricultural industry without being "classist as fuck." If you start a social movement, that's the point where you should do some basic research. > While the content is interesting, I find the condescending tone off-putting. Pack it up fellows, the tone police has arrived! > Are there advantages to this communication style that I'm missing? Ordinary people love it when affluent urban do-gooders get teared a new one. That just can't happen with minced words. As a leftist, you had better find some common ground with common folk when you're carrying around a PhD.
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    Amen also being straight and to the point is not always condescending
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  As long as you share useful information instead of just hateful ranting with nothing for any reader to gain I don't mind it.
- teekert 8y ago
  Well, she does say it's "enraging" and I can imagine (if her story is true) so it gives some real emotion to the story. Is it most effective? I don't know, depends on the goal I guess.
godelski 8y ago
I seriously wish I knew how to buy B grade food. Slightly misshapen tomatoes at a discounted price? Sign me up. I feel like I'm not the only one too.
- Semaphor 8y ago
  It's sometimes a thing in Germany. At least there were articles about stores doing that a few years back. Haven't seen any of those (neither articles nor ugly-bins) in a while though.
- nightfly 8y ago
  "Know what happens to most of the produce that's edible, has enough shape to survive in transit, but looks funny? IT GOES TO THE GROCERY STORES THAT POOR PEOPLE SHOP AT"
  - starpilot 8y ago
    Read: ethnic markets, 99 ranch, h-mart etc
    - csa 8y ago
      99 ranch? Really? My understanding is that they, like many Asian markets, have exclusive long term deals with certain farms. Maybe only for certain types of produce? Regardless, I find a lot of their produce, especially their greens, to be incredibly fresh and incredibly good looking — much better than what I can typically find at TJs or WF.
    - woolvalley 8y ago
      Other candidates are foodmaxx and grocery outlet. I've been to all of those places and other than the decor and maybe freshness they didn't seem that misshapen or blemished to me.
    - Alex3917 8y ago
      H Mart is closer to Whole Foods than an ethnic market. Ugly produce most certainly is not ending up there.
danaur 8y ago
Twitter posts like these have an interesting bullet point writing style you don't see in most places. I personally enjoy this style
- smsm42 8y ago
  It would be much better as a once-piece article. I am still at loss at why people use twitter to write long forms. I mean, you know it's going to be long. Put it on Medium (or whatever, I don't care where it is) and if you need Twitter audience, post a link. Yes, I know threaders exist. But that's solving a problem that shouldn't have existed at the first place. OTOH, in my eyes, posts like that is pretty much the only redeeming feature Twitter have left by now...
  - buboard 8y ago
    > be much better as a once-piece article Not really. I hate articles where people ramble on and go full-dostoyevski instead of getting to the point.
    - smsm42 8y ago
      You don't have to ramble. Just putting all the tweeted content into one post would be fine. Not having to split your post into 9000 tweets doesn't mean you can't write the same concise way.
  - eridius 8y ago
    It's easy to retweet a thread, and to start reading a retweeted thread because it's right there in Twitter. Reading an article from a tweeted link is a bigger effort investment. Also, Twitter threads lend itself to stream-of-consciousness style of writing. Putting together an actual article will involve drafting and editing and be more work.
    - int_19h 8y ago
      This is such a sad commentary on what the Internet has become.
jacquesm 8y ago
The ugliest fruits never make it to the market. Step-son of greengrocer here. Really, the most clear example to me is the fact that perfectly good fruits and vegetables get 'turned over' during harvest season because they do not fetch the minimum amount and are turned into cattle feed.
- kamaal 8y ago
  In India, it goes beyond that. Supply chains are extremely ineffective, and farmers basically sell to middle men. Often these are sold in chain to several other people before they go to the market. Many times the farmers are given such a low ball offer, that is basically expecting them to sell for loss. The farmer does the obvious. Takes their produce, dump in a lake near by as garbage, because it often doesn't economic make sense to take it back. Sometimes its worse than that. They just take their lorry and drive over the produce in the market and just take a bus back.
  - zeroname 8y ago
    > Many times the farmers are given such a low ball offer, that is basically expecting them to sell for loss. The farmer does the obvious. Takes their produce, dump in a lake near by as garbage, because it often doesn't economic make sense to take it back. That doesn't make any economic sense either. How is "selling at a loss" (i.e. taking in less money than it costs to produce) worse than dumping the produce (taking in no money whatsoever)? There has to be some other factor at play here.
    - kamaal 8y ago
      >>How is "selling at a loss" (i.e. taking in less money than it costs to produce) worse than dumping the produce (taking in no money whatsoever)? I guess its just a way of saying they won't negotiate to sell at low prices ever. Because once you do, people use it as precedence to bargain again. Also stifle the supply to some extent and the next time around the demand goes up.
    - selimthegrim 8y ago
heyjudy 8y ago
One of my roommates in college was from Michoacan MX, and worked Washington state, Oregon and California's Central Valley/Watsonville growing up. At fruit stands this was standard practice.. inedible/bad fruit was tossed out but damaged fruit went into pies, salads and other products because it wouldn't sell as well, even 30-40 years ago. The problem is manufacturers and retailers optimizing a deep supply-chain for what's easiest and most consistent: picking fruit green so it lasts a long time and doesn't get damaged. There's a difficult-to-defend market for almost as beautiful but insanely delicious produce that can shorten the supply-chain and deliver just-in-time... hydroponics and gentler processing may help. How much would you pay for an apple or tomato if it were 3-8x better than the generic produce aisle? (People also want organic non-GMO if they're paying more.) Finally, there's a good deal of issues around monoculture risks, especially with cloned products like bananas, that already had to be reengineered once and about to be tweaked again because of pest and disease evolution.
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  Two data points I have. My mother ran accounting for canneries. Turns out tomatoes that are too ripe for market get canned. Tomatoes that are too damaged for canning become hog food. And a friends mom worked as at a Potato processing factory, 6 million lbs of potato's in, 4 million lbs of potato products out. 1 million lbs of hog food out. The remainder is dirt and rocks. This factory had a machine to cut damaged bits out of french fries with air knives. I think the majority of waste is consumer side.
  - drewmol 8y ago
    "Unlike most kinds of canned produce, which pale in comparison to their fresh counterparts, a great can of diced tomatoes offers flavor almost every bit as intense as ripe, in-season fruit."[0] Just thought I'd share that canned tomatoes are delicious, better than fresh in many cases and cooks illustrated has some tremendous analysis on all varieties of canned tomatoes. [0]https://www.cooksillustrated.com/taste_tests/510-canned-diced-tomatoes https://www.cooksillustrated.com/taste_tests/510-canned-dice...
blauditore 8y ago
To be honest, I believed the "ugly fruit get thrown away" narrative too. But her explanation actually makes a lot of sense.
loosetypes 8y ago
It's good that the less shopper-favorable produce is put to use, but I'm always curious about the somewhat analogous-to-ugly-fruits case with milk: Looking at the dairy fridge and choosing solely by expiration date. Naturally, I choose the latest to expire to maximize my options within the consumption time-frame. And I think everyone does? But do you actually care about food waste if every time you make that decision the earlier-stocked milks that are still around, and set to expire sooner, are pretty much guaranteed to not be purchased? I guess I have no idea of the scale here, or even how much is wasted. It just seems like there would naturally be some sort of price-tiering of dairy products based on expiry to incentivize what might be a better overall consumption.
- travisjungroth 8y ago
  I have never done this, and I gently suggest you stop. Do you really need those extra few days of milk expiration? If the milk with the soonest expiration date was the only one available, would you buy it or just walk out without milk? A good rule to avoid tragedy of the commons situations is to think “what if everyone did as I do?”. This is a pretty classic example here.
  - smackay 8y ago
    I do this and the main reason is that milk with the greatest number of days has also been on the shelf for the least amount of time and consequently has probably had fewer things happen to it - like the refrigerator door being left open and the milk being warmed (slightly). For other items I reach in and take items from behind the first row for similar reasons since the retailer may have put returned items (which might be slightly spoiled or damaged) up front. This is also the reason I never take the last item of anything. So there's more too it than simple expiration dates. Retailer subterfuge is also a factor.
  - loosetypes 8y ago
    Thank you for your reply, I will try to adjust my behavior.
  - mijamo 8y ago
a_c 8y ago
The adage "don t want to see how sausage made" in full swing
erikbe 8y ago
This was actually (part of) MUJI's concept at launch. An example is selling broken-off mushrooms: "For example, there was a poster of dried shiitake mushrooms that were slightly damaged during the production process. In the Japanese market, only perfectly round shiitake were sold, but MUJI sold imperfectly shaped shiitake because they taste just as delicious. In another poster, the copy reads “The entire fish is salmon.” This is straightforward copy reminding readers that salmon is delicious head to tail, so all of it should be eaten. Even as the Japanese economy moved closer and closer toward an economic bubble, we had positive feedback from so many consumers back then who wanted to focus on the simple things in life." https://www.muji.com/us/flagship/huaihai755/archive/koike.html https://www.muji.com/us/flagship/huaihai755/archive/koike.ht... It shows that you can package almost anything as long as you do it with conceptual integrity. If you sell discounted goods, don't try to pass it off as as good as something more expensive, because that is not credible or interesting. Emphasize that it's less expensive, and why. When I google "conceptual integrity" which is funny in a way because I'm not a developer, and also interesting because it shows that many foundational ideas are cross-disciplinary.
- selimthegrim 8y ago
  Isn’t this a cautionary tale because MUJI ended up buying Japan’s entire broken mushroom output and had to buy whole ones in order to break them up themselves?
  - werber 8y ago
    I'm having trouble finding an article on that, do you have a link?
    - selimthegrim 8y ago
      It was in a short modern history of Japan I read about 15 years ago. I’ll try and dig it up.
- jolmg 8y ago
  > In another poster, the copy reads “The entire fish is salmon.” This is straightforward copy reminding readers that salmon is delicious head to tail, so all of it should be eaten. I heard once that some steaks sold are actually separate pieces of meat glued together and made to look like a natural steak. Maybe this happens with fish as well. Wouldn't "the entire fish is salmon" be referring to that there's no pieces of other fish glued to the fillet? I mean, perhaps there's a legal technicality where it's permissible to sell a product as salmon when at least 10% is actual salmon or so. It's kind of like how all those sweeteners sold as being stevia are actually only like 1 or 2% stevia.
benj111 8y ago
I suppose theres another angle not mentioned here. Currently fresh food buyers are basically subsidising processed food manufacturers, making the former relatively more expensive compared to the latter. Any move to consume uglier foods would increase competition and prices at the lower end, making fresh food relatively cheaper. From a dietary point of view this is good, fresh food tends to be healthier than processed.
- gilrain 8y ago
  From a dietary point of view this is good, [assuming you can still afford to eat].
  - benj111 8y ago
    I spent some time reasoning whether this would increase costs for those at the very bottom. I suppose it could, assuming they didn't buy mote fresh produce instead of processed. But in Tha situation they either don't want to change their diet (so its their choice?) or they already have an ideal diet, no processed food to stop consuming. I'm not sure how big the latter population is though.
    - darkerside 8y ago
      Not everybody simply has the option (budget) to buy and eat healthier. I don't totally disagree with your points, but there are tradeoffs here too.
      - jamiek88 8y ago
        Not just buying it but preparing and cooking it too. A single mother working two jobs with a small kitchen struggles to get the time to prep or to afford to buy in bulk to prep in advance.
      - benj111 8y ago
        I'm not convinced that fresh produce is more expensive than processed, or that it necessarily takes longer. That is predicated on being able to cook, and having some form of kitchen. But yes there are tradeoffs. I hope we can all agree that everyone has a right to eat. But that people don't have the right to eat steak every day. So somewhere in the middle there is a diet that people have a right to. There's a tremendous grey area in there, but I think its reasonable to expect people to prioritise a healthy diet first, although again there is a limit to that. I'm also not sure how far your line of reasoning is from objecting to taxes on cigarettes or alcohol, on the basis it will hit less well off people hardest. I don't want to deny poorer people nice things, but that shouldn't be carte blanche to keep 'bad' things cheap. Half the problem is that processed food encompasses coke, chocolate, cake as well as frozen peas and baked beans. So we could just be talking past each other here.
m_eiman 8y ago
I didn't see any numbers anywhere, so I'll add this one: according to a recent show on Swedish television, about 30% of all food produced is wasted somewhere along the way to our mouths. "Ugly fruit doesn't sell" is just one part of it, there's waste all along the chain of production, and not least in the homes. Modern society tends to interpret "best before" as "poison after", which leads to a lot of food being needlessly thrown away. According to the Swedish food agency (or something like that), the average person in Sweden throws 19 kg of food in the thrash and pours 26 kg of food in the sink every year.
- hopler 8y ago
  That's 10% of consumption, a non-issue.
  - m_eiman 8y ago
    If we can reduce global CO2 emissions by 0.7% and methane emissions by 5% at the cost of actually eating the food we buy (and also save money in the process), I'd say that's pretty low hanging fruit in the efforts to reduce global warning.
mrob 8y ago
>every once in a while you'll run into a variety of produce that only really works for fresh & doesn't lend well to processing. This mostly happens w leafy greens (we don't make … lettuce sauce) I wish I could buy frozen lettuce. Lettuce can be cooked (e.g. for lettuce soup), and cooked lettuce loses the crisp texture, so there's no drawback to freezing it first. The idea that lettuce is only a salad vegetable is an irrational tradition, like the idea that there are foods only suitable (or unsuitable) for breakfast. I'd eat more lettuce if it wasn't so expensive compared to frozen spinach.
- jompe 8y ago
  In my experience, I've accidentally heated lettuce when making some kind of salad which makes it really bitter. Because of that, I've thought of lettuce as only fresh food. Is that not the case then?
  - rendaw 8y ago
    It's good in fried rice too.
  - mrob 8y ago
    Lettuce soup is traditional in some countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettuce_soup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettuce_soup I'm not sure if heating actually increases the bitterness of lettuce, or just the perception of bitterness because the softer texture makes better contact with your tongue. I personally am not very sensitive to bitter tastes, but if you are, you could use a smaller portion. Easy portion control is another advantage of frozen vegetables, because you don't have to worry about the unused portion rotting.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
pasta 8y ago
In the Netherland, France, Belgium and other EU countries they started selling ugly food again. They are sold very cheap like 'outlaws' or expensive as 'real bio'. What I understand is that we have 3 visual classes. Some in the third class can be sold by law but as seller you have to check every peace. So it is more easy to skip that class. And just to be save most supermarkets just skipped the second class also.
lizzhale99 8y ago
Naturally, I choose the latest to expire to maximize my options within the consumption time-frame. And I think everyone does? I have recently started to deliberately mix ages when I see a variation, knowing that at least some of it will be consumed pretty soon and order will be assured by the way I arrange out fridge contents. It feels unjustifiably good. Thanks https://mytellthebell.com https://mytellthebell.com
dkrich 8y ago
Of course it ends with a link to her podcast
- yitchelle 8y ago
  Does that really matter if you got value from the information presented?
klmr 8y ago
> Know what happens to most of the produce that's edible, has enough shape to survive in transit, but looks funny? > IT GOES TO THE GROCERY STORES THAT POOR PEOPLE SHOP AT So I shop a lot at “grocery stores that poor people shop at” (in Europe, for what it’s worth; maybe the US is different). And the produce sold there is, for the most part, very different from the “ugly” fruit and veg that sustainability hipsters are talking about. Here’s what produce is sold at “poor people stores”: plasticky, perfect-looking, and utterly tasteless. Yes, there’s a lot of waste because a lot of it gets squashed and mouldy. But nobody is talking about selling that stuff because it’s genuinely bad. Some greengrocers do sell cheap “ugly” produce but the vast majority that lands in discount super markets isn’t ugly, it’s just incredibly bad quality. I don’t know what this means for her argument vs the food hipsters. But I find her condescension towards people who don’t know how poor people shop, coupled with apparent misinformation, extremely alienating.
- aboutruby 8y ago
  Also oversized to compensate for the low price-per-kilogram
  - spiderfarmer 8y ago
    Supersizing produce for economic reasons is a myth. Oversized fruits and vegetables mostly exist because they were "missed" during the previous harvesting round. A cucumber that is ripe but isn't harvested because it was hiding behind some leaves, will be oversized the next day. Same goes for a lot of other produce. Farmers receive the highest price for produce that's the "right" size. Other sizes will be auctioned off with a lower quality rating and get a lower price per kg. Also, the boxes are made for regular sizes and they can be packed more efficiently. If a supermarket sells inferior products for a higher price, it's because the supermarket wants to do that and not because the other parts of the market chain force them to.
    - alimbada 8y ago
      > A cucumber that is ripe but isn't harvested because it was hiding behind some leaves, will be oversized the next day. A year ago I would've shrugged this off as an exaggeration, but after my wife decided to grow cucumbers last summer I've seen first hand how fast those things grow.
yitchelle 8y ago
Can't help think that we are conditioned to think that ugly food is bad food. The kids in my circle of friends, mine included, would not touch a banana that has black spots on it or if the broccoli looks slightly off colour. Usually they would grow out of this type of bias, but judging from the observations of the general public, I am not so sure any more.
legostormtroopr 8y ago
This is a comment about the presentation of this content, but twitter threads are the worst method for presenting a coherent and compelling argument. They enforce unnatural character limits, lack formatting and links, and the whole twitter echo system encourages "hot takes", eg. 'The "eat ugly fruit!" movement is classist as FUCK'
- mateus1 8y ago
  Not really true, though. 280 characters makes for an OK sized paragraph.
- skilled 8y ago
  And how exactly do you propose to solve this issue? The only reason these threads even get a liftoff is that of Twitter in the first place. A random blog post just doesn't get the same traction unless your blog is established, and a new platform is unlikely to work just for this one specific use case. I don't mind the format as much as I mind typos and uneven thought, but that's an entirely different issue.
- schnevets 8y ago
  100% agreed. Dr. Taber's thread were a response to someone named Dr. Unicorn linking a Guardian article in response to someone linking a thread of "industry secrets". It almost makes me grateful for the inevitable Vox story that just pulls Taber's comments. At least that will be in a format that people can share.
- porpoisely 8y ago
  But that's not what twitter exists to do. It's like complaining a newspaper is not an encyclopedia. Or a piece of paper enforcing an unnatural width limit. If you don't like it, don't use. Why get upset that a fork isn't a spoon?
- soared 8y ago
  Skip reading it on twitter and throw it in one of the million web apps that convert it to a blog. Probably some chrome extensions out there doing it too https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1086055092321697794.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1086055092321697794.html
Fricken 8y ago
I saw this article about the ugly food getting thrown out from the BBC, citing a study about food waste from the University of Edinburgh. So who am I to believe? The University of Edinburgh or some Twitter ranter? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238...
- zenexer 8y ago
  On one hand, the BBC and most universities tend to be fairly reliable sources of information. On the other, this Twitter user’s argument is fairly logical and, despite the coarse wording, isn’t really making any extraordinary claims. Her statements make sense and align with my own observations, as well as my understanding of economics. Is it possible they’re both right? These matters are rarely as simple as they seem; it’s not inconceivable that there’s a fair amount of truth to both sides, and I’m willing to bet they could find quite a bit of common ground.
  - Fricken 8y ago
    Her arguments are very reasonable and truthy sounding, I agree. The thing is that the harder I try to get my story straight on food, the more convoluted the story becomes, and this item is illustrative of that.
tobyhinloopen 8y ago
Let’s write an article about fruits and veggies, about 1000 words long (didn’t count), and split it in short strings of max 280 characters. Twitter is weird.
flyGuyOnTheSly 8y ago
Our family has been loving No Name's "Naturally Imperfect" line recently. [0] And from the looks of it's growth in Ontario grocery stores, the program is doing quite well. [0] https://www.noname.ca/en_CA/naturally-imperfect https://www.noname.ca/en_CA/naturally-imperfect
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
OnlyRepliesToBS 8y ago
wait so now the fucking article summary is now a conversation against the post? this twitter shit is a fucking terrible presentation medium, additionally
sureaboutthis 8y ago
Even high end restaurants will take these things that are not presentable on a plate and turn them into soups, sauces, etc. because any decent chef knows that "dented cans" and ugly fruit taste the same as pretty ones. It's the everyday routine.
thoughtstheseus 8y ago
There’s some interesting work on food, mainly produce, supply chain management to more effectively prevent losses.
soared 8y ago
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1086055092321697794.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1086055092321697794.html
Qub3d 8y ago
Compiled Thread: https://threader.app/thread/1086055092321697794 https://threader.app/thread/1086055092321697794

349 points by apsec112 8y ago

Let's not forget the old favorite: burn it in an alembic and drink it!

I thought those sets of tweets interesting and would love to have the views of other people in this field. I have some friends in silicon valley that subscribed to this online delivery service for ugly produce: https://www.imperfectproduce.com https://www.imperfectproduce.com It looks to me like a mix of too much disposable income, and getting brag rights at dinner party for virtue signaling.

Cthulhu_ 8y ago
Mostly virtue signaling, and a clever way for the producer / seller to actually get more money for their produce than "nice looking" would - a LOT more than if it were used in a factory product where it would normally end up in.
mneubrand 8y ago
I'm subscribed to change my consumption habits and it has worked for the most part. I usually don't buy enough fruit and vegetables when I shop for myself and avoid certain vegetables completely. Imperfect fixes this for me. Fruit and vegetables just appear every week and once they're in my home I"m too cheap to let them go to waste so I end up eating them. I'd subscribe to normal produce delivery instead if that were an option. I don't really care about the "imperfect" part and the premium over my local supermarket is pretty negligible

bjowen 8y ago

Welp that’s a rant. Here’s an example where integrated supply chains and arbitrary supermarket standards cause eye-watering levels of waste: https://vimeo.com/223234033 https://vimeo.com/223234033

zeroname 8y ago
Actually it isn't. It's the same kind of poor research that the rant is about. Those are cosmetic specifications for supermarket stock, nowhere does it say what happens with the produce that doesn't meet them. It's simply insinuated that it goes to waste, but that isn't true. The supermarkets know very well what kind of produce doesn't sell, so these specs actually prevent waste, because unsold produce that is about to spoil really does go to waste.
- neRok 8y ago
  If you had watched the 2min video, you would have seen the bananas being dumped in piles - a banana mountain. Here is an article on the same video: https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/war-on-waste-craig-reucassel-reveals-the-shocking-truth-about-our-bananas/news-story/ddd59b65712f4649fc74b3f803520776 https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/war-on-waste... Other people and the original source mention food rotting because it cannot be picked before it spoils, which is probably a problem. But in the case of these bananas, they have been picked and made it all the way to a sorting facility, and could be sent to somewhere for consumption. These bananas may be worse than the ones that rot in the field, because they are responsible for additional energy and labour expenditure.
  - zeroname 8y ago
    The post originally linked to a youtube video of that same guy sitting in front of a laptop, researching specs. I did watch that one. Again, even if those bananas see no other use than being dumped, that doesn’t mean they would’ve been consumed by actual humans if it hadn’t been for those standards. Some other organism will consume them instead.

bradknowles 8y ago

Is there something wrong with that?

feross 8y ago

> The "eat ugly fruit!" movement is classist as FUCK. You've got to have a debilitating level of ignorance to assume that if Whole Paycheck Market doesn't stock ugly fruit, it must be getting "wasted." It is possible to not know much about the agricultural industry without being "classist as fuck." There are an infinite number of things one can learn about and a finite amount of time. While the content is interesting, I find the condescending tone off-putting. Are there advantages to this communication style that I'm missing?

dankusmcmeme 8y ago
>Are there advantages to this communication style that I'm missing? Wokeness points
zeroname 8y ago
> It is possible to not know much about the agricultural industry without being "classist as fuck." If you start a social movement, that's the point where you should do some basic research. > While the content is interesting, I find the condescending tone off-putting. Pack it up fellows, the tone police has arrived! > Are there advantages to this communication style that I'm missing? Ordinary people love it when affluent urban do-gooders get teared a new one. That just can't happen with minced words. As a leftist, you had better find some common ground with common folk when you're carrying around a PhD.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  Amen also being straight and to the point is not always condescending
giancarlostoro 8y ago
As long as you share useful information instead of just hateful ranting with nothing for any reader to gain I don't mind it.
teekert 8y ago
Well, she does say it's "enraging" and I can imagine (if her story is true) so it gives some real emotion to the story. Is it most effective? I don't know, depends on the goal I guess.

godelski 8y ago

I seriously wish I knew how to buy B grade food. Slightly misshapen tomatoes at a discounted price? Sign me up. I feel like I'm not the only one too.

Semaphor 8y ago
It's sometimes a thing in Germany. At least there were articles about stores doing that a few years back. Haven't seen any of those (neither articles nor ugly-bins) in a while though.
nightfly 8y ago
"Know what happens to most of the produce that's edible, has enough shape to survive in transit, but looks funny? IT GOES TO THE GROCERY STORES THAT POOR PEOPLE SHOP AT"
- starpilot 8y ago
  Read: ethnic markets, 99 ranch, h-mart etc
  - csa 8y ago
    99 ranch? Really? My understanding is that they, like many Asian markets, have exclusive long term deals with certain farms. Maybe only for certain types of produce? Regardless, I find a lot of their produce, especially their greens, to be incredibly fresh and incredibly good looking — much better than what I can typically find at TJs or WF.
  - woolvalley 8y ago
    Other candidates are foodmaxx and grocery outlet. I've been to all of those places and other than the decor and maybe freshness they didn't seem that misshapen or blemished to me.
  - Alex3917 8y ago
    H Mart is closer to Whole Foods than an ethnic market. Ugly produce most certainly is not ending up there.

danaur 8y ago

Twitter posts like these have an interesting bullet point writing style you don't see in most places. I personally enjoy this style

smsm42 8y ago
It would be much better as a once-piece article. I am still at loss at why people use twitter to write long forms. I mean, you know it's going to be long. Put it on Medium (or whatever, I don't care where it is) and if you need Twitter audience, post a link. Yes, I know threaders exist. But that's solving a problem that shouldn't have existed at the first place. OTOH, in my eyes, posts like that is pretty much the only redeeming feature Twitter have left by now...
- buboard 8y ago
  > be much better as a once-piece article Not really. I hate articles where people ramble on and go full-dostoyevski instead of getting to the point.
  - smsm42 8y ago
    You don't have to ramble. Just putting all the tweeted content into one post would be fine. Not having to split your post into 9000 tweets doesn't mean you can't write the same concise way.
- eridius 8y ago
  It's easy to retweet a thread, and to start reading a retweeted thread because it's right there in Twitter. Reading an article from a tweeted link is a bigger effort investment. Also, Twitter threads lend itself to stream-of-consciousness style of writing. Putting together an actual article will involve drafting and editing and be more work.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    This is such a sad commentary on what the Internet has become.

jacquesm 8y ago

The ugliest fruits never make it to the market. Step-son of greengrocer here. Really, the most clear example to me is the fact that perfectly good fruits and vegetables get 'turned over' during harvest season because they do not fetch the minimum amount and are turned into cattle feed.

kamaal 8y ago
In India, it goes beyond that. Supply chains are extremely ineffective, and farmers basically sell to middle men. Often these are sold in chain to several other people before they go to the market. Many times the farmers are given such a low ball offer, that is basically expecting them to sell for loss. The farmer does the obvious. Takes their produce, dump in a lake near by as garbage, because it often doesn't economic make sense to take it back. Sometimes its worse than that. They just take their lorry and drive over the produce in the market and just take a bus back.
- zeroname 8y ago
  > Many times the farmers are given such a low ball offer, that is basically expecting them to sell for loss. The farmer does the obvious. Takes their produce, dump in a lake near by as garbage, because it often doesn't economic make sense to take it back. That doesn't make any economic sense either. How is "selling at a loss" (i.e. taking in less money than it costs to produce) worse than dumping the produce (taking in no money whatsoever)? There has to be some other factor at play here.
  - kamaal 8y ago
    >>How is "selling at a loss" (i.e. taking in less money than it costs to produce) worse than dumping the produce (taking in no money whatsoever)? I guess its just a way of saying they won't negotiate to sell at low prices ever. Because once you do, people use it as precedence to bargain again. Also stifle the supply to some extent and the next time around the demand goes up.
  - selimthegrim 8y ago

heyjudy 8y ago

One of my roommates in college was from Michoacan MX, and worked Washington state, Oregon and California's Central Valley/Watsonville growing up. At fruit stands this was standard practice.. inedible/bad fruit was tossed out but damaged fruit went into pies, salads and other products because it wouldn't sell as well, even 30-40 years ago. The problem is manufacturers and retailers optimizing a deep supply-chain for what's easiest and most consistent: picking fruit green so it lasts a long time and doesn't get damaged. There's a difficult-to-defend market for almost as beautiful but insanely delicious produce that can shorten the supply-chain and deliver just-in-time... hydroponics and gentler processing may help. How much would you pay for an apple or tomato if it were 3-8x better than the generic produce aisle? (People also want organic non-GMO if they're paying more.) Finally, there's a good deal of issues around monoculture risks, especially with cloned products like bananas, that already had to be reengineered once and about to be tweaked again because of pest and disease evolution.

Gibbon1 8y ago
Two data points I have. My mother ran accounting for canneries. Turns out tomatoes that are too ripe for market get canned. Tomatoes that are too damaged for canning become hog food. And a friends mom worked as at a Potato processing factory, 6 million lbs of potato's in, 4 million lbs of potato products out. 1 million lbs of hog food out. The remainder is dirt and rocks. This factory had a machine to cut damaged bits out of french fries with air knives. I think the majority of waste is consumer side.
- drewmol 8y ago
  "Unlike most kinds of canned produce, which pale in comparison to their fresh counterparts, a great can of diced tomatoes offers flavor almost every bit as intense as ripe, in-season fruit."[0] Just thought I'd share that canned tomatoes are delicious, better than fresh in many cases and cooks illustrated has some tremendous analysis on all varieties of canned tomatoes. [0]https://www.cooksillustrated.com/taste_tests/510-canned-diced-tomatoes https://www.cooksillustrated.com/taste_tests/510-canned-dice...

blauditore 8y ago

To be honest, I believed the "ugly fruit get thrown away" narrative too. But her explanation actually makes a lot of sense.

loosetypes 8y ago

It's good that the less shopper-favorable produce is put to use, but I'm always curious about the somewhat analogous-to-ugly-fruits case with milk: Looking at the dairy fridge and choosing solely by expiration date. Naturally, I choose the latest to expire to maximize my options within the consumption time-frame. And I think everyone does? But do you actually care about food waste if every time you make that decision the earlier-stocked milks that are still around, and set to expire sooner, are pretty much guaranteed to not be purchased? I guess I have no idea of the scale here, or even how much is wasted. It just seems like there would naturally be some sort of price-tiering of dairy products based on expiry to incentivize what might be a better overall consumption.

travisjungroth 8y ago
I have never done this, and I gently suggest you stop. Do you really need those extra few days of milk expiration? If the milk with the soonest expiration date was the only one available, would you buy it or just walk out without milk? A good rule to avoid tragedy of the commons situations is to think “what if everyone did as I do?”. This is a pretty classic example here.
- smackay 8y ago
  I do this and the main reason is that milk with the greatest number of days has also been on the shelf for the least amount of time and consequently has probably had fewer things happen to it - like the refrigerator door being left open and the milk being warmed (slightly). For other items I reach in and take items from behind the first row for similar reasons since the retailer may have put returned items (which might be slightly spoiled or damaged) up front. This is also the reason I never take the last item of anything. So there's more too it than simple expiration dates. Retailer subterfuge is also a factor.
- loosetypes 8y ago
  Thank you for your reply, I will try to adjust my behavior.
- mijamo 8y ago

a_c 8y ago

The adage "don t want to see how sausage made" in full swing

erikbe 8y ago

This was actually (part of) MUJI's concept at launch. An example is selling broken-off mushrooms: "For example, there was a poster of dried shiitake mushrooms that were slightly damaged during the production process. In the Japanese market, only perfectly round shiitake were sold, but MUJI sold imperfectly shaped shiitake because they taste just as delicious. In another poster, the copy reads “The entire fish is salmon.” This is straightforward copy reminding readers that salmon is delicious head to tail, so all of it should be eaten. Even as the Japanese economy moved closer and closer toward an economic bubble, we had positive feedback from so many consumers back then who wanted to focus on the simple things in life." https://www.muji.com/us/flagship/huaihai755/archive/koike.html https://www.muji.com/us/flagship/huaihai755/archive/koike.ht... It shows that you can package almost anything as long as you do it with conceptual integrity. If you sell discounted goods, don't try to pass it off as as good as something more expensive, because that is not credible or interesting. Emphasize that it's less expensive, and why. When I google "conceptual integrity" which is funny in a way because I'm not a developer, and also interesting because it shows that many foundational ideas are cross-disciplinary.

selimthegrim 8y ago
Isn’t this a cautionary tale because MUJI ended up buying Japan’s entire broken mushroom output and had to buy whole ones in order to break them up themselves?
- werber 8y ago
  I'm having trouble finding an article on that, do you have a link?
  - selimthegrim 8y ago
    It was in a short modern history of Japan I read about 15 years ago. I’ll try and dig it up.
jolmg 8y ago
> In another poster, the copy reads “The entire fish is salmon.” This is straightforward copy reminding readers that salmon is delicious head to tail, so all of it should be eaten. I heard once that some steaks sold are actually separate pieces of meat glued together and made to look like a natural steak. Maybe this happens with fish as well. Wouldn't "the entire fish is salmon" be referring to that there's no pieces of other fish glued to the fillet? I mean, perhaps there's a legal technicality where it's permissible to sell a product as salmon when at least 10% is actual salmon or so. It's kind of like how all those sweeteners sold as being stevia are actually only like 1 or 2% stevia.

benj111 8y ago

I suppose theres another angle not mentioned here. Currently fresh food buyers are basically subsidising processed food manufacturers, making the former relatively more expensive compared to the latter. Any move to consume uglier foods would increase competition and prices at the lower end, making fresh food relatively cheaper. From a dietary point of view this is good, fresh food tends to be healthier than processed.

gilrain 8y ago
From a dietary point of view this is good, [assuming you can still afford to eat].
- benj111 8y ago
  I spent some time reasoning whether this would increase costs for those at the very bottom. I suppose it could, assuming they didn't buy mote fresh produce instead of processed. But in Tha situation they either don't want to change their diet (so its their choice?) or they already have an ideal diet, no processed food to stop consuming. I'm not sure how big the latter population is though.
  - darkerside 8y ago
    Not everybody simply has the option (budget) to buy and eat healthier. I don't totally disagree with your points, but there are tradeoffs here too.
    - jamiek88 8y ago
      Not just buying it but preparing and cooking it too. A single mother working two jobs with a small kitchen struggles to get the time to prep or to afford to buy in bulk to prep in advance.
    - benj111 8y ago
      I'm not convinced that fresh produce is more expensive than processed, or that it necessarily takes longer. That is predicated on being able to cook, and having some form of kitchen. But yes there are tradeoffs. I hope we can all agree that everyone has a right to eat. But that people don't have the right to eat steak every day. So somewhere in the middle there is a diet that people have a right to. There's a tremendous grey area in there, but I think its reasonable to expect people to prioritise a healthy diet first, although again there is a limit to that. I'm also not sure how far your line of reasoning is from objecting to taxes on cigarettes or alcohol, on the basis it will hit less well off people hardest. I don't want to deny poorer people nice things, but that shouldn't be carte blanche to keep 'bad' things cheap. Half the problem is that processed food encompasses coke, chocolate, cake as well as frozen peas and baked beans. So we could just be talking past each other here.

m_eiman 8y ago

I didn't see any numbers anywhere, so I'll add this one: according to a recent show on Swedish television, about 30% of all food produced is wasted somewhere along the way to our mouths. "Ugly fruit doesn't sell" is just one part of it, there's waste all along the chain of production, and not least in the homes. Modern society tends to interpret "best before" as "poison after", which leads to a lot of food being needlessly thrown away. According to the Swedish food agency (or something like that), the average person in Sweden throws 19 kg of food in the thrash and pours 26 kg of food in the sink every year.

hopler 8y ago
That's 10% of consumption, a non-issue.
- m_eiman 8y ago
  If we can reduce global CO2 emissions by 0.7% and methane emissions by 5% at the cost of actually eating the food we buy (and also save money in the process), I'd say that's pretty low hanging fruit in the efforts to reduce global warning.

mrob 8y ago

>every once in a while you'll run into a variety of produce that only really works for fresh & doesn't lend well to processing. This mostly happens w leafy greens (we don't make … lettuce sauce) I wish I could buy frozen lettuce. Lettuce can be cooked (e.g. for lettuce soup), and cooked lettuce loses the crisp texture, so there's no drawback to freezing it first. The idea that lettuce is only a salad vegetable is an irrational tradition, like the idea that there are foods only suitable (or unsuitable) for breakfast. I'd eat more lettuce if it wasn't so expensive compared to frozen spinach.

jompe 8y ago
In my experience, I've accidentally heated lettuce when making some kind of salad which makes it really bitter. Because of that, I've thought of lettuce as only fresh food. Is that not the case then?
- rendaw 8y ago
  It's good in fried rice too.
- mrob 8y ago
  Lettuce soup is traditional in some countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettuce_soup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettuce_soup I'm not sure if heating actually increases the bitterness of lettuce, or just the perception of bitterness because the softer texture makes better contact with your tongue. I personally am not very sensitive to bitter tastes, but if you are, you could use a smaller portion. Easy portion control is another advantage of frozen vegetables, because you don't have to worry about the unused portion rotting.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

pasta 8y ago

In the Netherland, France, Belgium and other EU countries they started selling ugly food again. They are sold very cheap like 'outlaws' or expensive as 'real bio'. What I understand is that we have 3 visual classes. Some in the third class can be sold by law but as seller you have to check every peace. So it is more easy to skip that class. And just to be save most supermarkets just skipped the second class also.

lizzhale99 8y ago

Naturally, I choose the latest to expire to maximize my options within the consumption time-frame. And I think everyone does? I have recently started to deliberately mix ages when I see a variation, knowing that at least some of it will be consumed pretty soon and order will be assured by the way I arrange out fridge contents. It feels unjustifiably good. Thanks https://mytellthebell.com https://mytellthebell.com

dkrich 8y ago

Of course it ends with a link to her podcast

yitchelle 8y ago
Does that really matter if you got value from the information presented?

klmr 8y ago

> Know what happens to most of the produce that's edible, has enough shape to survive in transit, but looks funny? > IT GOES TO THE GROCERY STORES THAT POOR PEOPLE SHOP AT So I shop a lot at “grocery stores that poor people shop at” (in Europe, for what it’s worth; maybe the US is different). And the produce sold there is, for the most part, very different from the “ugly” fruit and veg that sustainability hipsters are talking about. Here’s what produce is sold at “poor people stores”: plasticky, perfect-looking, and utterly tasteless. Yes, there’s a lot of waste because a lot of it gets squashed and mouldy. But nobody is talking about selling that stuff because it’s genuinely bad. Some greengrocers do sell cheap “ugly” produce but the vast majority that lands in discount super markets isn’t ugly, it’s just incredibly bad quality. I don’t know what this means for her argument vs the food hipsters. But I find her condescension towards people who don’t know how poor people shop, coupled with apparent misinformation, extremely alienating.

aboutruby 8y ago
Also oversized to compensate for the low price-per-kilogram
- spiderfarmer 8y ago
  Supersizing produce for economic reasons is a myth. Oversized fruits and vegetables mostly exist because they were "missed" during the previous harvesting round. A cucumber that is ripe but isn't harvested because it was hiding behind some leaves, will be oversized the next day. Same goes for a lot of other produce. Farmers receive the highest price for produce that's the "right" size. Other sizes will be auctioned off with a lower quality rating and get a lower price per kg. Also, the boxes are made for regular sizes and they can be packed more efficiently. If a supermarket sells inferior products for a higher price, it's because the supermarket wants to do that and not because the other parts of the market chain force them to.
  - alimbada 8y ago
    > A cucumber that is ripe but isn't harvested because it was hiding behind some leaves, will be oversized the next day. A year ago I would've shrugged this off as an exaggeration, but after my wife decided to grow cucumbers last summer I've seen first hand how fast those things grow.

yitchelle 8y ago

Can't help think that we are conditioned to think that ugly food is bad food. The kids in my circle of friends, mine included, would not touch a banana that has black spots on it or if the broccoli looks slightly off colour. Usually they would grow out of this type of bias, but judging from the observations of the general public, I am not so sure any more.

legostormtroopr 8y ago

This is a comment about the presentation of this content, but twitter threads are the worst method for presenting a coherent and compelling argument. They enforce unnatural character limits, lack formatting and links, and the whole twitter echo system encourages "hot takes", eg. 'The "eat ugly fruit!" movement is classist as FUCK'

mateus1 8y ago
Not really true, though. 280 characters makes for an OK sized paragraph.
skilled 8y ago
And how exactly do you propose to solve this issue? The only reason these threads even get a liftoff is that of Twitter in the first place. A random blog post just doesn't get the same traction unless your blog is established, and a new platform is unlikely to work just for this one specific use case. I don't mind the format as much as I mind typos and uneven thought, but that's an entirely different issue.
schnevets 8y ago
100% agreed. Dr. Taber's thread were a response to someone named Dr. Unicorn linking a Guardian article in response to someone linking a thread of "industry secrets". It almost makes me grateful for the inevitable Vox story that just pulls Taber's comments. At least that will be in a format that people can share.
porpoisely 8y ago
But that's not what twitter exists to do. It's like complaining a newspaper is not an encyclopedia. Or a piece of paper enforcing an unnatural width limit. If you don't like it, don't use. Why get upset that a fork isn't a spoon?
soared 8y ago
Skip reading it on twitter and throw it in one of the million web apps that convert it to a blog. Probably some chrome extensions out there doing it too https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1086055092321697794.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1086055092321697794.html

Fricken 8y ago

I saw this article about the ugly food getting thrown out from the BBC, citing a study about food waste from the University of Edinburgh. So who am I to believe? The University of Edinburgh or some Twitter ranter? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238732 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-45238...

zenexer 8y ago
On one hand, the BBC and most universities tend to be fairly reliable sources of information. On the other, this Twitter user’s argument is fairly logical and, despite the coarse wording, isn’t really making any extraordinary claims. Her statements make sense and align with my own observations, as well as my understanding of economics. Is it possible they’re both right? These matters are rarely as simple as they seem; it’s not inconceivable that there’s a fair amount of truth to both sides, and I’m willing to bet they could find quite a bit of common ground.
- Fricken 8y ago
  Her arguments are very reasonable and truthy sounding, I agree. The thing is that the harder I try to get my story straight on food, the more convoluted the story becomes, and this item is illustrative of that.

tobyhinloopen 8y ago

Let’s write an article about fruits and veggies, about 1000 words long (didn’t count), and split it in short strings of max 280 characters. Twitter is weird.

flyGuyOnTheSly 8y ago

Our family has been loving No Name's "Naturally Imperfect" line recently. [0] And from the looks of it's growth in Ontario grocery stores, the program is doing quite well. [0] https://www.noname.ca/en_CA/naturally-imperfect https://www.noname.ca/en_CA/naturally-imperfect

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

OnlyRepliesToBS 8y ago

wait so now the fucking article summary is now a conversation against the post? this twitter shit is a fucking terrible presentation medium, additionally

sureaboutthis 8y ago

Even high end restaurants will take these things that are not presentable on a plate and turn them into soups, sauces, etc. because any decent chef knows that "dented cans" and ugly fruit taste the same as pretty ones. It's the everyday routine.

thoughtstheseus 8y ago

There’s some interesting work on food, mainly produce, supply chain management to more effectively prevent losses.

soared 8y ago

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1086055092321697794.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1086055092321697794.html

Qub3d 8y ago

Compiled Thread: https://threader.app/thread/1086055092321697794 https://threader.app/thread/1086055092321697794