5 ms·

> in a space they'd either like to be in as well But that's exactly what monopoly means, i.e. you can't get in and compete with those players. It sounds like

> in a space they'd either like to be in as well But that's exactly what monopoly means, i.e. you can't get in and compete with those players. It sounds like you are justifying monopolized markets for whatever reason.

dragontamer 8y ago
"Mono" means ONE. Literally the number 1. Monopoly generally means ONE supplier that controls the entire marketplace. There are other forms of market failure relating to a small group having too much power in the market: Monopoly, Cartel, Oligopoly, Monopsony, etc. etc. Oligopoly or Cartel are far closer to what the article is describing. To use the word "Monopoly" here is simply incorrect English.
- firethief 8y ago
  Etymology provides a good basis for guessing the general meaning of words you don't know, but it's hardly the authority on nuances of meaning. Many words have taken tangentially-related or even opposite senses from their roots in other languages.
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    The meanings of words shifts based on their usage. I'm old enough to recognize that the meaning of words change. Nonetheless, economic principles have a precise, technical definition for Monopoly, Duopoly, Monopsony, Oligopoly, Cartel, and Oligopsony. Each situation requires a different policy to handle. So its important to choose the right word to describe any particular problem.
    - firethief 8y ago
      Oh yeah, I agree with the conclusion. Weakening of technical terms makes clear discussion of these abstract topics in a casual context exponentially more difficult. I just don't see that argument-from-etymology is a productive way to get there since it doesn't seem to generalize.
- zzzcpan 8y ago
  Literal meaning of the word is absolutely irrelevant. Historically monopoly was about granted status, but it's mostly a theoretical concept today, where everyone is in the middle between monopoly and perfect competition. You can say that if it's not competitive enough, it's a monopoly.
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    > You can say that if it's not competitive enough, it's a monopoly. A market that is not competitive enough is an 'oligopoly'. That's the word you want. Why do you want to move the definition of 'monopoly' when we already have the word 'oligopoly'?
    - zzzcpan 8y ago
      I don't want to move the definition, my definition is fine and is shared among many people. Yours is the one I think is wrong. You shouldn't imply that oligopoly is not a form of monopoly. It absolutely is.
      - mfoy_ 8y ago
        Did you try checking the dictionary? https://www.dictionary.com/browse/monopoly https://www.dictionary.com/browse/monopoly
        zzzcpan 8y ago
        From your link: "the exclusive possession or control of something", "a company or group that has such control".
        mfoy_ 8y ago
        You must be trolling.
        zzzcpan 8y ago
- clairity 8y ago
  yes, a monopoly is dominated by one large supplier (or in the case of a buyer, monopsony). but that doesn't mean that there is only one market participant. it doesn't even mean that the dominant player has the majority market share. like any field of study, people apply words outside of the technical application and meaning gets diluted the further a person is from the field (economics). just look at how superhero movies use the word 'dimension'. =) but yes, without examining the industry in more detail, oligopoly is the safer initial assumption.
jdpedrie 8y ago
"Monopoly" literally means there is only one player in the market, or that one player has a hugely dominant position. If the suggested "Cartel" doesn't work, there's also "Oligopoly"[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly
- zzzcpan 8y ago
  Both cartels and oligopolies are just more specific ways to achieve monopolies.
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    > Both cartels and oligopolies are just more specific ways to achieve monopolies. "Market Failure" is the word you're looking for. And there's LOTS of ways to achieve Market Failure. Your vocabulary of economic terms is limited and imprecise. If you study economics more, you'll certainly appreciate the amount of work that the field has put into definitions and policies. These details are important, especially in a democracy where we voters are the ones who ultimately decide upon the fate of our country. We all have to have basic economic knowledge of these Market Failure conditions, as well as the policies available to combat them.
nothrabannosir 8y ago
> ... monopoly ... players. Crucially, the "mono-" bit means "one." One seller. 1 < n ⪅ 5 is "oligopoly". If they collude and conspire it's a "cartel", but technically a cartel can also be a subset of players in a "polyopoly" (which is "many sellers", i.e. a healthy market). It's just way easier if the cartel = everyone :)
chrisseaton 8y ago
> But that's exactly what monopoly means, i.e. you can't get in and compete with those players. This isn't exactly what monopoly means. Have you tried looking in a dictionary to see what it does mean?
- mfoy_ 8y ago
  I tried to help him out, to no avail: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18941848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18941848

dragontamer 8y ago

"Mono" means ONE. Literally the number 1. Monopoly generally means ONE supplier that controls the entire marketplace. There are other forms of market failure relating to a small group having too much power in the market: Monopoly, Cartel, Oligopoly, Monopsony, etc. etc. Oligopoly or Cartel are far closer to what the article is describing. To use the word "Monopoly" here is simply incorrect English.

firethief 8y ago
Etymology provides a good basis for guessing the general meaning of words you don't know, but it's hardly the authority on nuances of meaning. Many words have taken tangentially-related or even opposite senses from their roots in other languages.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  The meanings of words shifts based on their usage. I'm old enough to recognize that the meaning of words change. Nonetheless, economic principles have a precise, technical definition for Monopoly, Duopoly, Monopsony, Oligopoly, Cartel, and Oligopsony. Each situation requires a different policy to handle. So its important to choose the right word to describe any particular problem.
  - firethief 8y ago
    Oh yeah, I agree with the conclusion. Weakening of technical terms makes clear discussion of these abstract topics in a casual context exponentially more difficult. I just don't see that argument-from-etymology is a productive way to get there since it doesn't seem to generalize.
zzzcpan 8y ago
Literal meaning of the word is absolutely irrelevant. Historically monopoly was about granted status, but it's mostly a theoretical concept today, where everyone is in the middle between monopoly and perfect competition. You can say that if it's not competitive enough, it's a monopoly.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > You can say that if it's not competitive enough, it's a monopoly. A market that is not competitive enough is an 'oligopoly'. That's the word you want. Why do you want to move the definition of 'monopoly' when we already have the word 'oligopoly'?
  - zzzcpan 8y ago
    I don't want to move the definition, my definition is fine and is shared among many people. Yours is the one I think is wrong. You shouldn't imply that oligopoly is not a form of monopoly. It absolutely is.
    - mfoy_ 8y ago
      Did you try checking the dictionary? https://www.dictionary.com/browse/monopoly https://www.dictionary.com/browse/monopoly
      - zzzcpan 8y ago
        From your link: "the exclusive possession or control of something", "a company or group that has such control".
        mfoy_ 8y ago
        You must be trolling.
        zzzcpan 8y ago
clairity 8y ago
yes, a monopoly is dominated by one large supplier (or in the case of a buyer, monopsony). but that doesn't mean that there is only one market participant. it doesn't even mean that the dominant player has the majority market share. like any field of study, people apply words outside of the technical application and meaning gets diluted the further a person is from the field (economics). just look at how superhero movies use the word 'dimension'. =) but yes, without examining the industry in more detail, oligopoly is the safer initial assumption.

jdpedrie 8y ago

"Monopoly" literally means there is only one player in the market, or that one player has a hugely dominant position. If the suggested "Cartel" doesn't work, there's also "Oligopoly"[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly

zzzcpan 8y ago
Both cartels and oligopolies are just more specific ways to achieve monopolies.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  > Both cartels and oligopolies are just more specific ways to achieve monopolies. "Market Failure" is the word you're looking for. And there's LOTS of ways to achieve Market Failure. Your vocabulary of economic terms is limited and imprecise. If you study economics more, you'll certainly appreciate the amount of work that the field has put into definitions and policies. These details are important, especially in a democracy where we voters are the ones who ultimately decide upon the fate of our country. We all have to have basic economic knowledge of these Market Failure conditions, as well as the policies available to combat them.

nothrabannosir 8y ago

> ... monopoly ... players. Crucially, the "mono-" bit means "one." One seller. 1 < n ⪅ 5 is "oligopoly". If they collude and conspire it's a "cartel", but technically a cartel can also be a subset of players in a "polyopoly" (which is "many sellers", i.e. a healthy market). It's just way easier if the cartel = everyone :)

chrisseaton 8y ago

> But that's exactly what monopoly means, i.e. you can't get in and compete with those players. This isn't exactly what monopoly means. Have you tried looking in a dictionary to see what it does mean?

mfoy_ 8y ago
I tried to help him out, to no avail: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18941848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18941848