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As I said, that's poor management. You will loose to an enemy who does it properly. The US was once envied for their officers training and education. Edited to

by chopin 8y ago

As I said, that's poor management. You will loose to an enemy who does it properly. The US was once envied for their officers training and education. Edited to add: Also, what will people do? They will drink less than they should to avoid the humiliation. On top of a tired crew you will get also a dehydrated one. This is a surefire recipe for bad things to happen.

adventured 8y ago
> You will loose to an enemy who does it properly. I agree with the need to always keep training in top shape. There is no naval enemy on earth that is even remotely competitive with the US in any regard. Iran? North Korea? ISIS? What enemy? Russia has no global naval projection, it can barely sustainably push beyond the Black Sea with its surface ships. Their sub fleet is a medium threat. The US is also not at war with Russia, they aren't actually an enemy. There is no war coming with the Russians, they're only good for boogeyman status. They've got a perma stagnant economy (Australia will surpass it soon) and melting social-economic position (see: pension cuts making Putin unpopular), crimping their ability to continue to spend on anything military (most of their military is badly dilapidated, so they've taken to focusing very narrowly because they can't field a high quality force across the board any longer; this is also why Putin puts so much effort into screaming about his magic super weapons that are unstoppable, their conventional military is rotting). Could China one day be a naval enemy? Sure. At some point in the next 20 years there could be a naval conflict near Chinese territory. The US isn't winning that near-shore conflict short of going to a WW2 level output of ships. The dumbest thing the US could do from a navy perspective is get into a naval conflict with China close to their shores 10-20 years from now. It wouldn't matter how well trained the officers are, it's an inherently losing position.
- dhimes 8y ago
  There is no naval enemy on earth that is even remotely competitive with the US in any regard. Ship to ship maneuverability and tactics, even? How can you be so sure? Do you think that it's impossible for a US ship to lose a "dogfight" at sea in Asia as tensions escalate? If the lack of training is as bad as they say, I have a hard time imagining them winning one.
- overlordalex 8y ago
  > There is no naval enemy on earth that is even remotely competitive with the US in any regard. I find this hilarious in the context of the incident, Who would win: the greatest navel power on earth operating a highly sophisticated and technologically advanced destroyer, or one container ship? Just because there isn't an enemy now doesn't mean that you can just forgo training. They shouldn't sink to a lowest common denominator, but rather strive for a higher standard. They're hardly in top shape according to the report
- alistairSH 8y ago
  If our naval superiority is that vast, perhaps we should retire a few warships, pick commanders for the remaining vessels from the competent members of the officer corp, and force-retire those that no longer have ships to command.
  - hindsightbias 8y ago
    The Navy wants 350 ships. They have more Admirals now that ships.
- magduf 8y ago
  >There is no naval enemy on earth that is even remotely competitive with the US in any regard. >Iran? North Korea? ISIS? What enemy? It's a good thing the US is still friendly with Europe. Everything I've read about their (admittedly much smaller) navies is that they're far more professional and better run, and look at the Americans as unprofessional and even dangerous when they have to do training exercises with them. Of course, this shouldn't be too big a surprise; just take a trip to Europe and see how much better day-to-day stuff is run. Public transit is excellent and much larger in scope, unlike America where the subways are falling apart and Amtrak is a joke. Airports are smoothly run, unlike America where they aren't even paying the security people (TSA) to come to work. Bridges in Europe aren't dilapidated and literally falling down like they are in America.
  - vigormortis 8y ago
    > It's a good thing the US is still friendly with Europe. Everything I've read about their (admittedly much smaller) navies is that they're far more professional and better run, .... I wouldn't be so sure about that. Norway managed to sink one of their own frigates. https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2018/11/13/norwegian-frigate-sinks-after-it-was-rammed-by-a-tanker/ https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2018/11/13/norwegia... Germany doesn't have anything left to sink. https://www.rt.com/news/418484-german-navy-ships-shortage/ https://www.rt.com/news/418484-german-navy-ships-shortage/
    - magduf 8y ago
      Good point about the Norwegian ship, but I have no idea what you're talking about with the German Navy. They have over 60 ships, including 10 frigates, 5 corvettes, and 6 submarines, plus various other support ships. Their close allies in Italy have 2 light aircraft carriers, 3 amphibious assault ships, 4 destroyers, 12 frigates, 8 attack subs, 1 corvette, plus others. Their other close allies in France have 1 aircraft carrier, 3 amphibious assault ships, 14 frigates of various types, 6 attack subs, plus some other frigates and corvettes, as well as 4 ballistic-missile subs. I haven't even gotten to the other powers in continental Europe (Netherlands, Denmark, etc.). All together, they seem to have a pretty sizeable defense force. Japan also has a pretty sizable Navy with over 120 ships.
- pc86 8y ago
  I agree that there is no coming hot conflict with Russia in the short term, but they are absolutely, objectively an enemy to America.

by chopin 8y ago

adventured 8y ago

> You will loose to an enemy who does it properly. I agree with the need to always keep training in top shape. There is no naval enemy on earth that is even remotely competitive with the US in any regard. Iran? North Korea? ISIS? What enemy? Russia has no global naval projection, it can barely sustainably push beyond the Black Sea with its surface ships. Their sub fleet is a medium threat. The US is also not at war with Russia, they aren't actually an enemy. There is no war coming with the Russians, they're only good for boogeyman status. They've got a perma stagnant economy (Australia will surpass it soon) and melting social-economic position (see: pension cuts making Putin unpopular), crimping their ability to continue to spend on anything military (most of their military is badly dilapidated, so they've taken to focusing very narrowly because they can't field a high quality force across the board any longer; this is also why Putin puts so much effort into screaming about his magic super weapons that are unstoppable, their conventional military is rotting). Could China one day be a naval enemy? Sure. At some point in the next 20 years there could be a naval conflict near Chinese territory. The US isn't winning that near-shore conflict short of going to a WW2 level output of ships. The dumbest thing the US could do from a navy perspective is get into a naval conflict with China close to their shores 10-20 years from now. It wouldn't matter how well trained the officers are, it's an inherently losing position.

dhimes 8y ago
There is no naval enemy on earth that is even remotely competitive with the US in any regard. Ship to ship maneuverability and tactics, even? How can you be so sure? Do you think that it's impossible for a US ship to lose a "dogfight" at sea in Asia as tensions escalate? If the lack of training is as bad as they say, I have a hard time imagining them winning one.
overlordalex 8y ago
> There is no naval enemy on earth that is even remotely competitive with the US in any regard. I find this hilarious in the context of the incident, Who would win: the greatest navel power on earth operating a highly sophisticated and technologically advanced destroyer, or one container ship? Just because there isn't an enemy now doesn't mean that you can just forgo training. They shouldn't sink to a lowest common denominator, but rather strive for a higher standard. They're hardly in top shape according to the report
alistairSH 8y ago
If our naval superiority is that vast, perhaps we should retire a few warships, pick commanders for the remaining vessels from the competent members of the officer corp, and force-retire those that no longer have ships to command.
- hindsightbias 8y ago
  The Navy wants 350 ships. They have more Admirals now that ships.
magduf 8y ago
>There is no naval enemy on earth that is even remotely competitive with the US in any regard. >Iran? North Korea? ISIS? What enemy? It's a good thing the US is still friendly with Europe. Everything I've read about their (admittedly much smaller) navies is that they're far more professional and better run, and look at the Americans as unprofessional and even dangerous when they have to do training exercises with them. Of course, this shouldn't be too big a surprise; just take a trip to Europe and see how much better day-to-day stuff is run. Public transit is excellent and much larger in scope, unlike America where the subways are falling apart and Amtrak is a joke. Airports are smoothly run, unlike America where they aren't even paying the security people (TSA) to come to work. Bridges in Europe aren't dilapidated and literally falling down like they are in America.
- vigormortis 8y ago
  > It's a good thing the US is still friendly with Europe. Everything I've read about their (admittedly much smaller) navies is that they're far more professional and better run, .... I wouldn't be so sure about that. Norway managed to sink one of their own frigates. https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2018/11/13/norwegian-frigate-sinks-after-it-was-rammed-by-a-tanker/ https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2018/11/13/norwegia... Germany doesn't have anything left to sink. https://www.rt.com/news/418484-german-navy-ships-shortage/ https://www.rt.com/news/418484-german-navy-ships-shortage/
  - magduf 8y ago
    Good point about the Norwegian ship, but I have no idea what you're talking about with the German Navy. They have over 60 ships, including 10 frigates, 5 corvettes, and 6 submarines, plus various other support ships. Their close allies in Italy have 2 light aircraft carriers, 3 amphibious assault ships, 4 destroyers, 12 frigates, 8 attack subs, 1 corvette, plus others. Their other close allies in France have 1 aircraft carrier, 3 amphibious assault ships, 14 frigates of various types, 6 attack subs, plus some other frigates and corvettes, as well as 4 ballistic-missile subs. I haven't even gotten to the other powers in continental Europe (Netherlands, Denmark, etc.). All together, they seem to have a pretty sizeable defense force. Japan also has a pretty sizable Navy with over 120 ships.
pc86 8y ago
I agree that there is no coming hot conflict with Russia in the short term, but they are absolutely, objectively an enemy to America.