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Also on the other end. Wag seems to be having issues with walkers committing fraud against the company. I think wag needs to take a more aggressive approach at

Also on the other end. Wag seems to be having issues with walkers committing fraud against the company. I think wag needs to take a more aggressive approach at putting a stop to it. If walkers are committing fraud through the app then they should pursue legal action against those walkers and hold them criminally for fraud. From what I understand...what walkers are doing is signing up for their friends/family and letting the friend do the walking. Why would someone do this? Well if your friend has a long criminal record and can't find a job (because of their criminal history) then the family member feels compelled to help the family member by singing up for a wag account, get approved with a clear record and then let the family member with a bad record do the actual work. This is why in the story the person doing the walking was basically different from the person in the profile and failed to disclose their real name.

astura 8y ago
This is basically a side effect of the "gig economy." One can even just sell their account (and good will) when they decide to quit dog walking. Pretty scary when you really think about it. Also heard of uber drivers hiring illegal immigrants to drive under their uber account, not sure of the credibility of these reports.
- labster 8y ago
  Why would anyone care if an undocumented immigrant drove your uber? As long as they're licensed and insured, they're just as qualified as any other driver.
  - idontpost 8y ago
    1) Some people would care because they think undocumented immigrants are subhuman. 2) Other people would care because Uber is sketchy enough with out random sub-sub-sub contractors being added into the mix, regardless of their immigration status. 3) Still other people would be bothered by the obviously minimal pay a sub-sub-sub....sub-contracted undocumented immigrant would be paid.
  - ars 8y ago
    Under someone else's account? How exactly would they be insured in that situation? It's also IRS fraud, there is no background check, the list of issues with this is just huge. There are plenty of reasons to care - undocumented people are a legal liability for both the passenger and Uber.
  - j16sdiz 8y ago
    Does insurance cover when illegal immigrant drive the car?
    - masonic 8y ago
      Not if the driver is not the claimed Uber-booked driver.
  - gig3m 8y ago
    At least in Texas, illegal immigrants cannot get insurance (for themselves) or a driver's license.
    - max76 8y ago
      Twelve states and D.C. allow illegal immigrants to acquire drivers licensees [0]. Washington State was the first one in the early 90s, but the list also includes the boarder states of California and New Mexico. I would imagine if a state will issue a drivers license then someone has to be selling insurance, otherwise the license is moot as their would be no legal way to drive. [0] https://immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005535 https://immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=...
      - astura 8y ago
        Texas is not on that list though.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - ohazi 8y ago
    There's no way any insurance company providing the kind of commercial insurance you need to drive for Uber would be okay with a driver using someone else's Uber account, immigrant or otherwise. The finger-pointing likely to result from an incident would make this driver as good as uninsured.
    - rayvy 8y ago
      Interesting story but someone I work with was actually severely rear-ended by an Uber driver heading to the airport, and she said the driver's insurance wouldn't cover the driver because the driver was acting as an Uber driver at the time of the accident. Don't know the insurance co., but I definitely remember being shocked by the fact that they wouldn't cover the driver for that reason
      - astura 8y ago
        Commercial insurance is whole different ball game than personal insurance. Personal insurance typically doesnt cover commercial use. Driving for Uber is a commercial activity. I guess uber has an insurance policy that covers their drivers during rides now, so hopefully that kicked in to take care of your friend. Everyone should read their insurance policies to know their exclusions.
        vinay427 8y ago
        Note that most insurance providers won't cover drivers who have used their car to drive for Uber, regardless of whether they're driving for Uber at the time of the incident. Uber may cover you if you're on a trip, but it's up to you to make sure you have the right insurance plan (which usually means paying a nominal surcharge to your insurance provider in the US) to have insurance the rest of the time.
        DanBC 8y ago
        > covers their drivers during rides now In the US. It's not clear if they have this anywhere else.
      - 8y ago
  - astura 8y ago
    When I hire an Uber I expect my uber driver to be vetted by Uber? Beyond that People driving under other people's Uber accounts don't have a license or are otherwise ineligible to drive for Uber (criminal, underage, etc) otherwise they'd get their own Uber account. Uber literally pays people to sign up as drivers - there's no legitimate reason to drive under someone else's Uber account. Commercial Insurance would probably exclude coverage for any incidents that happen when an unlicensed driver is using someone else's Uber account.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    I care because it is a lie and manipulation. Business done without a solid basis is often high risk. That risk unlikely to be worth it. Finally, as a basic matter of principle, I do not do business with people who are dishonest. Doing that is on par with debating liars.
- true_religion 8y ago
  Not really. The whole idea of the 'gig economy' relied on independent contractors being independent entities liable for their own issues, and whom reap the rewards for their own work. Part of the reward is a reputable account as a saleable asset. It's just like selling a company or passing it on to your children. If Joe's Handmans or Joes' Dogwalkers no longer includes "Joe" that's not supposed to be a scary situation, its part and parcel of why people work for themselves. Now if indies aren't really expected to have owners rights, then they ought to get employee protections.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    If someone bought the company for a pittance just for the branding then it is something to worry about. Compare to a seller account on ebay; they're definitely nowhere near an employee but it would still be bad to disconnect reputation from the actual actor that got the reputation.
  - michaelmrose 8y ago
    "Part of the reward is a reputable account as a saleable asset." Your assessment is wrong. Joe's plumbing is a legally distinct entity that people understand is represented by a variety of different individuals. An account on a gig site that represents that you are Joe Smith is different on the face of the matter because you are contractually liable for providing accurate info to potential clients and the company. They signed up for Joe not someone Joe vetted. You breached the agreement under which you agreed to work with the company that is connecting you to work. You misled the party hiring the company and if anything goes wrong and you let Bob Johnson masquerade as you have fun getting sued by the agreived party and reaping the bad press. The company will ultimately delete the account when or if your FRAUD is detected meaning you will also be guilty of defrauding the buyer. The person using the account is guilty of exceeding authorized access on cfaa you are potentially guilty of assisting them. If you want the benefits of being a corporation you need to incorporate you cannot fraudulently sell your Joe Smith personal account on wag or Uber or what have you.
    - true_religion 8y ago
- jdietrich 8y ago
  It's a second-order effect of a society with deeply ambivalent beliefs about justice, rehabilitation and forgiveness. Background checks and risk-averse hiring policies have an obvious logic, but they have made it considerably more difficult for people to pay their debt to society and become productive citizens. There's a local risk to hiring an ex-offender, but there's a wider risk of creating an unemployable underclass. I'm not sure how to best strike the balance between those risks, but I think we need a serious national conversation about the system we have created and the second-order effects of that system.

astura 8y ago

This is basically a side effect of the "gig economy." One can even just sell their account (and good will) when they decide to quit dog walking. Pretty scary when you really think about it. Also heard of uber drivers hiring illegal immigrants to drive under their uber account, not sure of the credibility of these reports.

labster 8y ago
Why would anyone care if an undocumented immigrant drove your uber? As long as they're licensed and insured, they're just as qualified as any other driver.
- idontpost 8y ago
  1) Some people would care because they think undocumented immigrants are subhuman. 2) Other people would care because Uber is sketchy enough with out random sub-sub-sub contractors being added into the mix, regardless of their immigration status. 3) Still other people would be bothered by the obviously minimal pay a sub-sub-sub....sub-contracted undocumented immigrant would be paid.
- ars 8y ago
  Under someone else's account? How exactly would they be insured in that situation? It's also IRS fraud, there is no background check, the list of issues with this is just huge. There are plenty of reasons to care - undocumented people are a legal liability for both the passenger and Uber.
- j16sdiz 8y ago
  Does insurance cover when illegal immigrant drive the car?
  - masonic 8y ago
    Not if the driver is not the claimed Uber-booked driver.
- gig3m 8y ago
  At least in Texas, illegal immigrants cannot get insurance (for themselves) or a driver's license.
  - max76 8y ago
    Twelve states and D.C. allow illegal immigrants to acquire drivers licensees [0]. Washington State was the first one in the early 90s, but the list also includes the boarder states of California and New Mexico. I would imagine if a state will issue a drivers license then someone has to be selling insurance, otherwise the license is moot as their would be no legal way to drive. [0] https://immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005535 https://immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=...
    - astura 8y ago
      Texas is not on that list though.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- ohazi 8y ago
  There's no way any insurance company providing the kind of commercial insurance you need to drive for Uber would be okay with a driver using someone else's Uber account, immigrant or otherwise. The finger-pointing likely to result from an incident would make this driver as good as uninsured.
  - rayvy 8y ago
    Interesting story but someone I work with was actually severely rear-ended by an Uber driver heading to the airport, and she said the driver's insurance wouldn't cover the driver because the driver was acting as an Uber driver at the time of the accident. Don't know the insurance co., but I definitely remember being shocked by the fact that they wouldn't cover the driver for that reason
    - astura 8y ago
      Commercial insurance is whole different ball game than personal insurance. Personal insurance typically doesnt cover commercial use. Driving for Uber is a commercial activity. I guess uber has an insurance policy that covers their drivers during rides now, so hopefully that kicked in to take care of your friend. Everyone should read their insurance policies to know their exclusions.
      - vinay427 8y ago
        Note that most insurance providers won't cover drivers who have used their car to drive for Uber, regardless of whether they're driving for Uber at the time of the incident. Uber may cover you if you're on a trip, but it's up to you to make sure you have the right insurance plan (which usually means paying a nominal surcharge to your insurance provider in the US) to have insurance the rest of the time.
      - DanBC 8y ago
        > covers their drivers during rides now In the US. It's not clear if they have this anywhere else.
    - 8y ago
- astura 8y ago
  When I hire an Uber I expect my uber driver to be vetted by Uber? Beyond that People driving under other people's Uber accounts don't have a license or are otherwise ineligible to drive for Uber (criminal, underage, etc) otherwise they'd get their own Uber account. Uber literally pays people to sign up as drivers - there's no legitimate reason to drive under someone else's Uber account. Commercial Insurance would probably exclude coverage for any incidents that happen when an unlicensed driver is using someone else's Uber account.
- ddingus 8y ago
  I care because it is a lie and manipulation. Business done without a solid basis is often high risk. That risk unlikely to be worth it. Finally, as a basic matter of principle, I do not do business with people who are dishonest. Doing that is on par with debating liars.
true_religion 8y ago
Not really. The whole idea of the 'gig economy' relied on independent contractors being independent entities liable for their own issues, and whom reap the rewards for their own work. Part of the reward is a reputable account as a saleable asset. It's just like selling a company or passing it on to your children. If Joe's Handmans or Joes' Dogwalkers no longer includes "Joe" that's not supposed to be a scary situation, its part and parcel of why people work for themselves. Now if indies aren't really expected to have owners rights, then they ought to get employee protections.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  If someone bought the company for a pittance just for the branding then it is something to worry about. Compare to a seller account on ebay; they're definitely nowhere near an employee but it would still be bad to disconnect reputation from the actual actor that got the reputation.
- michaelmrose 8y ago
  "Part of the reward is a reputable account as a saleable asset." Your assessment is wrong. Joe's plumbing is a legally distinct entity that people understand is represented by a variety of different individuals. An account on a gig site that represents that you are Joe Smith is different on the face of the matter because you are contractually liable for providing accurate info to potential clients and the company. They signed up for Joe not someone Joe vetted. You breached the agreement under which you agreed to work with the company that is connecting you to work. You misled the party hiring the company and if anything goes wrong and you let Bob Johnson masquerade as you have fun getting sued by the agreived party and reaping the bad press. The company will ultimately delete the account when or if your FRAUD is detected meaning you will also be guilty of defrauding the buyer. The person using the account is guilty of exceeding authorized access on cfaa you are potentially guilty of assisting them. If you want the benefits of being a corporation you need to incorporate you cannot fraudulently sell your Joe Smith personal account on wag or Uber or what have you.
  - true_religion 8y ago
jdietrich 8y ago
It's a second-order effect of a society with deeply ambivalent beliefs about justice, rehabilitation and forgiveness. Background checks and risk-averse hiring policies have an obvious logic, but they have made it considerably more difficult for people to pay their debt to society and become productive citizens. There's a local risk to hiring an ex-offender, but there's a wider risk of creating an unemployable underclass. I'm not sure how to best strike the balance between those risks, but I think we need a serious national conversation about the system we have created and the second-order effects of that system.