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It is interesting how any movement in opposition to globalism is caused by Russia, and any opponent of the progressivism pushing for this is obviously an racist

It is interesting how any movement in opposition to globalism is caused by Russia, and any opponent of the progressivism pushing for this is obviously an racist/sexist/bigot. It is interesting how all the yellow jackets, the maga folks, and the brexiters are all brutes easily influenced by nepharious forces against their own good. Especially when others manipulate their sometimes violent primitive tendencies. It is interesting that all opposition to the predominant narrative really should be better informed, and listen to the ones that know better.

chillwaves 8y ago
Do you have any actual facts or positions to take? The people who believe Donald Trump are listening to a well confirmed liar, who makes promises that are not even possible to keep. How is it working out for his supporters? Is mining on the rise againt? US steel too? I assume the trade deficit has been neutralized? And how is Brexit going for the Leave group? I am asking do you have concrete grievances or is this just swipe at a faceless elite for daring to know better?
- asabjorn 8y ago
  How do we know that we in the elites that have been given ideology instead of a classic humanities education, taught what to think instead of how, and to become practiced in ignoring what our mind as well as eyes tell us is not worse off?
kodablah 8y ago
> It is interesting how any movement in opposition to globalism is caused by Russia I wouldn't say it's in opposition to globalism or always blamed on Russia. I'd rephrase it as, "It is interesting how any movement in opposition to [what the most vocal want] is caused by [election fraud] and [uninformed voters]." It's actually not that interesting though, it's an attempt to rationalize dissonance. Often based on facts with little evidence of effect. Such facts are uncovered, easily in most cases, by those searching to find them which is why the problems only appear to apply to the victors.
mirimir 8y ago
You're arguing against a strawman. So do you think that nations don't intervene covertly in other nations? What about the US in Iran (1953) or Chile (60s)? And so why is it so improbable that Russia is doing it? And recall the study by Prof. Igor Panarin (former KGB analyst) predicting that the US will fragment. Maybe it's more like a game plan.
- asabjorn 8y ago
  I am just observing. It’s very impressive for Russia to be the essential force behind all major opposition movements that apparently are not rooted in legitimate concerns.
  - tomlock 8y ago
    It isn't so impressive or surprising if you observe that a KGB man is in charge of Russia and the three letter agencies in America tasked with countering him have been tied up with other tasks since the the eleventh of september 2001 for some reason.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      And not just a "KGB man". Much of Putin's family died in the siege of Leningrad. And, as his key assistant, he watched Yeltsin sink into alcoholism and depression, as the Soviet Union fell apart, and Russia was humiliated. So he's recreated the KGB.[0] 0) https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/21/putin-has-finally-reincarnated-the-kgb-mgb-fsb-russia/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/21/putin-has-finally-reinc... Edit: That is, I think that it's personal, for him. A matter of honor.
      - lostlogin 8y ago
        Agreed. To add to your points, Putin’s grandfather was a cook for Lenin and Stalin. Speculation: He grew up hearing about these ‘”heros”. https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.rbth.com/document/5aa678c485600a08ba0c3964/amp https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.rbth.com/document/5aa678c...
alasdair_ 8y ago
Everything seems to be going as planned. "The United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe.[9]" "Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.[9]" "Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. These can be achieved by employing Kurds, Armenians and other minorities.[9]" "Russia should manipulate Japanese politics by offering the Kuril Islands to Japan and provoking anti-Americanism.[9]" "Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".[9]" From "Foundations of Geopolitics" by Alexandr Dugin. Putin has repeatedly cited his works and the book is used as a textbook by the Russian military. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
- asabjorn 8y ago
  Yes, the KGB defector Yuri [1] said as much. He describes a slow distruption they started of America by infiltrating the education system. This attacks the weakness of a democracy, which is the fact that it’s run by people for the behest of itself as a system and does not answer to an estate that would otherwise check its malfunctioning. However, that doesn’t mean the movements of dissent is caused by this. They could be, or they could be a symptom of the problems not solved by a long term malfunctioning Democratic system. [1] https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA
  - padraic7a 8y ago
    That's conspiracy theory nonsense.
alxh87 8y ago
It's not that interesting. Manipulation was targeted at people more susceptible to it. I expect that most racism/sexism/bigotry generally comes from prior manipulation too.
- asabjorn 8y ago
  How do you know that other more major political stories is not the real product of manipulation [1] and these opposition movements are a symptom of problems not solved by a malfunctioning Democratic system? [1] https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA
  - alxh87 8y ago
    They could be, but there is a much lower threshold to manipulate people who are close-minded. Almost everyone I've encountered who repeats racially charged headlines is LESS likely to have much personal experience with the people they feel so strongly about, even to the point of avoiding encounters with those people.
    - asabjorn 8y ago
      Close minded means you are not open to new impulses.If they are close minded they by definition is bound by something old which should make them harder to manipulate. A person that does the creative arts is generally very open minded.
- raxxorrax 8y ago
  My country was recently victim of a "hacker"-attack. Personal accounts of politicians were compromised. Everyone and their cats pointed their fingers at Russia. In the end it was a younger pupil and far too many people used their surname as password. I doubt that a significant part of the population are reiterating Kremlin-propaganda. It seems to be a hysterical Red Scare 2.0, just from a different political side, that is just as opportunistic. If you always see Putin in your dreams, I doubt you should point a finger on people and diagnose any form of manipulation. There are certainly some bots, but I doubt Russia is represented disproportionally. Just the language barrier alone would lessen their numbers significantly. It often just serves as a convenient excuse for political defeat. Putin is totalitarian dick. Why not just leave it at that instead of accusing people of asserting his will?
winningcontinue 8y ago
It's not interesting at all. It's the the mundane politics of everyday normal foreign relations as countries try to get a leg up and interfere in each other's processes. Maybe the only thing that's interesting is that for the first time, it's happening to the rich western former colonial powers. The chickens have finally come home to roost.
- meawaythrow 8y ago
  for the first time I think the russian meddling stuff is largely a bs scapegoat and even I know the KGB was up to this stuff for the entire cold war. See the classic interview from KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov where he claims that the majority of KGB efforts were dedicated to "demoralization" not spying.
  - not_kurt_godel 8y ago
    Demoralization and destabilization are their goals with respect to meddling though. See my rather long reply to parent in this thread.
not_kurt_godel 8y ago
> It is interesting how all the yellow jackets, the maga folks, and the brexiters are all brutes easily influenced by nepharious forces against their own good. Especially when others manipulate their sometimes violent primitive tendencies. I totally agree, it is interesting! Here is some required reading on the subject: https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=5011321-Khusyaynova-Complaint https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=5011321-Khus... It's the federal criminal complaint against Elena Khusyaynova[1] which details her activities at the Internet Research Agency and other Russian psyops sites: > The Conspiracy has a strategic goal, which continues to this day, to sow division and discord in the US. political system, including by creating social and political polarization, undermining faith in democratic institutions, and influencing US. elections, including the upcoming 2018 midterm election. The Conspiracy has sought to conduct What it called internally "information warfare against the United States of America" through fictitious U.S. personas on social media platforms and other Internet-based media. > Members of the Conspiracy, posing as US. persons, operated fictitious social media personas, pages, and groups designed to attract U.S. audiences and to address divisive US. political and social issues or advocate for the election or electoral defeat of particular candidates. These personas, groups, and pages falsely claimed to be controlled by US. activists when, in fact, they were controlled by members of the Conspiracy. --- > any opponent of the progressivism pushing for this is obviously an racist/sexist/bigot. There's an interesting bit that relates to this: > Members of the Conspiracy were directed to create political intensity through supporting radical groups, users dissatisfied with [the] social and economic situation and oppositional social movements. The Conspiracy also sought, in the words of one member of the Conspiracy, to "effectively aggravate the conflict between minorities and the rest of the population." The document goes into great detail about the specific tactics employed. I strongly suggest you (and everyone else) read it in full. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Khusyaynova https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Khusyaynova --- Edit: One more interesting thing from the complaint is this bit: > Conspiracy's effort to sow discord in the US political system, members of the Conspiracy used social media and other internet platforms to inflame passions on a wide variety of topics, including immigration, gun control and the Second Amendment, the Confederate flag, race relations, LGBT issues, the Women's March, and the NFL national anthem debate. Members of the Conspiracy took advantage of specific events in the United States to anchor their themes, including the shootings of church members in Charleston, South Carolina, and concert attendees in Las Vegas, Nevada; the Charlottesville "Unite the Right" rally and associated Violence; police shootings of African-American men; as well as the personnel and policy decisions of the current US. administration. What I find especially interesting is how well this passage (in addition to other descriptions given throughout the complaint) seems to describe your own HN post history, almost to a T! I just read through your entire (relatively short) post history and as best as I can tell, you have exactly one post which neither directly relates to one of the above subjects nor is nakedly inflammatory political rhetoric. Specifically you seem to have particular affinities for: * Race relations: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18803533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18803533 * Women's issues: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18763486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18763486 * Specific (politically charged) events: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18888092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18888092 * LGBT issues: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18904507 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18904507 Interesting indeed, my friend. Interesting indeed.
SZJX 8y ago
Not sure what you're trying to say here. Sounds just like rehashing the what the mainstream western media have been drumming to tedium. If you genuinely believe that everything including Brexit and Donald trump is "caused" by Russia it's you that need to be much "better informed". If not then you're deliberately trying to deflect the focus just like what the Democrats and in general the mainstream media have been doing for all these years. Also, the US have probably engaged in far more foreign inferences which are much more direct and violent than these events where Russia had a (shadowy) share. Ironic that now the western world are in uproar now that they are subject to some of their own classic tactics eh?
- mdpopescu 8y ago
  You need to pay more attention... he is being sarcastic. That's exactly his point - people are wrong to believe the media and blame everything on Russia.
andrepd 8y ago
Ctrl-F "racis"/"sexis" yields no results. That didn't stop you from triggering the persecution complex and going "waa, can't even disagree, they'll call you a bigot". Please, don't buy into that divisive rhetoric.
- asabjorn 8y ago
  We all know the rhetoric used against the brexiters, and what I stated is representative of that.
  - brynjolf 8y ago
    Source?
    - asabjorn 8y ago
      ## source who voted for brexit Repudiation of the story that the leavers feel economically left behind [1]. Some Leavers certainly felt economically left behind, but many did not. Research has since shown that three groups were key to the Brexit vote: - Left Behind Leavers, who were working-class, struggling financially, almost never had a degree, were in their forties or fifties and most of whom did not identify with the main parties or supported the UK Independence Party. - Blue-Collar Pensioners, who were also working-class but retired, and so less likely to be struggling financially and tended to vote for Conservative. - Affluent Eurosceptics, who were much less likely to identify as working-class, more affluent, more likely to have a degree and tended to vote Conservative. While we hear much about the first two groups we have heard very little about the third, and only the first would support the predominant narrative to some degree. [1] http://natcen.ac.uk/our-research/research/understanding-the-leave-vote/ http://natcen.ac.uk/our-research/research/understanding-the-... ## source dismissive attitudes to brexit claims Some sources on it being dismissed as nostalgia: [4] http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/05/brexit-has-its-roots-british-empire-so-how-do-we-explain-it-young http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/05/brexit... [5] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/07/building-brexit-on-myth-of-empire-ignores-history-at-our-peril https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/07/buildi... Some source on it being dismissed as empire 2.0: [6] http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/775399/empire-2-uk-improve-trade-links-african-commonwealth-nations-after-brexit-theresa-may http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/775399/empire-2-uk-improve-... Many of the other points about how Brexit voters are portrayed vs reality is listed here [2] and [3]. ## other articles on the topic More expansive analysis can be found in: [7] https://areomagazine.com/2017/04/21/eurocentrism-remainers-and-the-british-left/ https://areomagazine.com/2017/04/21/eurocentrism-remainers-a... [8] https://quillette.com/2018/08/03/britains-populist-revolt/ https://quillette.com/2018/08/03/britains-populist-revolt/

chillwaves 8y ago

Do you have any actual facts or positions to take? The people who believe Donald Trump are listening to a well confirmed liar, who makes promises that are not even possible to keep. How is it working out for his supporters? Is mining on the rise againt? US steel too? I assume the trade deficit has been neutralized? And how is Brexit going for the Leave group? I am asking do you have concrete grievances or is this just swipe at a faceless elite for daring to know better?

asabjorn 8y ago
How do we know that we in the elites that have been given ideology instead of a classic humanities education, taught what to think instead of how, and to become practiced in ignoring what our mind as well as eyes tell us is not worse off?

kodablah 8y ago

> It is interesting how any movement in opposition to globalism is caused by Russia I wouldn't say it's in opposition to globalism or always blamed on Russia. I'd rephrase it as, "It is interesting how any movement in opposition to [what the most vocal want] is caused by [election fraud] and [uninformed voters]." It's actually not that interesting though, it's an attempt to rationalize dissonance. Often based on facts with little evidence of effect. Such facts are uncovered, easily in most cases, by those searching to find them which is why the problems only appear to apply to the victors.

mirimir 8y ago

You're arguing against a strawman. So do you think that nations don't intervene covertly in other nations? What about the US in Iran (1953) or Chile (60s)? And so why is it so improbable that Russia is doing it? And recall the study by Prof. Igor Panarin (former KGB analyst) predicting that the US will fragment. Maybe it's more like a game plan.

asabjorn 8y ago
I am just observing. It’s very impressive for Russia to be the essential force behind all major opposition movements that apparently are not rooted in legitimate concerns.
- tomlock 8y ago
  It isn't so impressive or surprising if you observe that a KGB man is in charge of Russia and the three letter agencies in America tasked with countering him have been tied up with other tasks since the the eleventh of september 2001 for some reason.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    And not just a "KGB man". Much of Putin's family died in the siege of Leningrad. And, as his key assistant, he watched Yeltsin sink into alcoholism and depression, as the Soviet Union fell apart, and Russia was humiliated. So he's recreated the KGB.[0] 0) https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/21/putin-has-finally-reincarnated-the-kgb-mgb-fsb-russia/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/21/putin-has-finally-reinc... Edit: That is, I think that it's personal, for him. A matter of honor.
    - lostlogin 8y ago
      Agreed. To add to your points, Putin’s grandfather was a cook for Lenin and Stalin. Speculation: He grew up hearing about these ‘”heros”. https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.rbth.com/document/5aa678c485600a08ba0c3964/amp https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.rbth.com/document/5aa678c...

alasdair_ 8y ago

Everything seems to be going as planned. "The United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe.[9]" "Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.[9]" "Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. These can be achieved by employing Kurds, Armenians and other minorities.[9]" "Russia should manipulate Japanese politics by offering the Kuril Islands to Japan and provoking anti-Americanism.[9]" "Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".[9]" From "Foundations of Geopolitics" by Alexandr Dugin. Putin has repeatedly cited his works and the book is used as a textbook by the Russian military. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

asabjorn 8y ago
Yes, the KGB defector Yuri [1] said as much. He describes a slow distruption they started of America by infiltrating the education system. This attacks the weakness of a democracy, which is the fact that it’s run by people for the behest of itself as a system and does not answer to an estate that would otherwise check its malfunctioning. However, that doesn’t mean the movements of dissent is caused by this. They could be, or they could be a symptom of the problems not solved by a long term malfunctioning Democratic system. [1] https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA
- padraic7a 8y ago
  That's conspiracy theory nonsense.

alxh87 8y ago

It's not that interesting. Manipulation was targeted at people more susceptible to it. I expect that most racism/sexism/bigotry generally comes from prior manipulation too.

asabjorn 8y ago
How do you know that other more major political stories is not the real product of manipulation [1] and these opposition movements are a symptom of problems not solved by a malfunctioning Democratic system? [1] https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA
- alxh87 8y ago
  They could be, but there is a much lower threshold to manipulate people who are close-minded. Almost everyone I've encountered who repeats racially charged headlines is LESS likely to have much personal experience with the people they feel so strongly about, even to the point of avoiding encounters with those people.
  - asabjorn 8y ago
    Close minded means you are not open to new impulses.If they are close minded they by definition is bound by something old which should make them harder to manipulate. A person that does the creative arts is generally very open minded.
raxxorrax 8y ago
My country was recently victim of a "hacker"-attack. Personal accounts of politicians were compromised. Everyone and their cats pointed their fingers at Russia. In the end it was a younger pupil and far too many people used their surname as password. I doubt that a significant part of the population are reiterating Kremlin-propaganda. It seems to be a hysterical Red Scare 2.0, just from a different political side, that is just as opportunistic. If you always see Putin in your dreams, I doubt you should point a finger on people and diagnose any form of manipulation. There are certainly some bots, but I doubt Russia is represented disproportionally. Just the language barrier alone would lessen their numbers significantly. It often just serves as a convenient excuse for political defeat. Putin is totalitarian dick. Why not just leave it at that instead of accusing people of asserting his will?

winningcontinue 8y ago

It's not interesting at all. It's the the mundane politics of everyday normal foreign relations as countries try to get a leg up and interfere in each other's processes. Maybe the only thing that's interesting is that for the first time, it's happening to the rich western former colonial powers. The chickens have finally come home to roost.

meawaythrow 8y ago
for the first time I think the russian meddling stuff is largely a bs scapegoat and even I know the KGB was up to this stuff for the entire cold war. See the classic interview from KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov where he claims that the majority of KGB efforts were dedicated to "demoralization" not spying.
- not_kurt_godel 8y ago
  Demoralization and destabilization are their goals with respect to meddling though. See my rather long reply to parent in this thread.

not_kurt_godel 8y ago

> It is interesting how all the yellow jackets, the maga folks, and the brexiters are all brutes easily influenced by nepharious forces against their own good. Especially when others manipulate their sometimes violent primitive tendencies. I totally agree, it is interesting! Here is some required reading on the subject: https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=5011321-Khusyaynova-Complaint https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=5011321-Khus... It's the federal criminal complaint against Elena Khusyaynova[1] which details her activities at the Internet Research Agency and other Russian psyops sites: > The Conspiracy has a strategic goal, which continues to this day, to sow division and discord in the US. political system, including by creating social and political polarization, undermining faith in democratic institutions, and influencing US. elections, including the upcoming 2018 midterm election. The Conspiracy has sought to conduct What it called internally "information warfare against the United States of America" through fictitious U.S. personas on social media platforms and other Internet-based media. > Members of the Conspiracy, posing as US. persons, operated fictitious social media personas, pages, and groups designed to attract U.S. audiences and to address divisive US. political and social issues or advocate for the election or electoral defeat of particular candidates. These personas, groups, and pages falsely claimed to be controlled by US. activists when, in fact, they were controlled by members of the Conspiracy. --- > any opponent of the progressivism pushing for this is obviously an racist/sexist/bigot. There's an interesting bit that relates to this: > Members of the Conspiracy were directed to create political intensity through supporting radical groups, users dissatisfied with [the] social and economic situation and oppositional social movements. The Conspiracy also sought, in the words of one member of the Conspiracy, to "effectively aggravate the conflict between minorities and the rest of the population." The document goes into great detail about the specific tactics employed. I strongly suggest you (and everyone else) read it in full. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Khusyaynova https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Khusyaynova --- Edit: One more interesting thing from the complaint is this bit: > Conspiracy's effort to sow discord in the US political system, members of the Conspiracy used social media and other internet platforms to inflame passions on a wide variety of topics, including immigration, gun control and the Second Amendment, the Confederate flag, race relations, LGBT issues, the Women's March, and the NFL national anthem debate. Members of the Conspiracy took advantage of specific events in the United States to anchor their themes, including the shootings of church members in Charleston, South Carolina, and concert attendees in Las Vegas, Nevada; the Charlottesville "Unite the Right" rally and associated Violence; police shootings of African-American men; as well as the personnel and policy decisions of the current US. administration. What I find especially interesting is how well this passage (in addition to other descriptions given throughout the complaint) seems to describe your own HN post history, almost to a T! I just read through your entire (relatively short) post history and as best as I can tell, you have exactly one post which neither directly relates to one of the above subjects nor is nakedly inflammatory political rhetoric. Specifically you seem to have particular affinities for: * Race relations: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18803533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18803533 * Women's issues: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18763486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18763486 * Specific (politically charged) events: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18888092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18888092 * LGBT issues: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18904507 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18904507 Interesting indeed, my friend. Interesting indeed.

SZJX 8y ago

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Sounds just like rehashing the what the mainstream western media have been drumming to tedium. If you genuinely believe that everything including Brexit and Donald trump is "caused" by Russia it's you that need to be much "better informed". If not then you're deliberately trying to deflect the focus just like what the Democrats and in general the mainstream media have been doing for all these years. Also, the US have probably engaged in far more foreign inferences which are much more direct and violent than these events where Russia had a (shadowy) share. Ironic that now the western world are in uproar now that they are subject to some of their own classic tactics eh?

mdpopescu 8y ago
You need to pay more attention... he is being sarcastic. That's exactly his point - people are wrong to believe the media and blame everything on Russia.

andrepd 8y ago

Ctrl-F "racis"/"sexis" yields no results. That didn't stop you from triggering the persecution complex and going "waa, can't even disagree, they'll call you a bigot". Please, don't buy into that divisive rhetoric.

asabjorn 8y ago
We all know the rhetoric used against the brexiters, and what I stated is representative of that.
- brynjolf 8y ago
  Source?
  - asabjorn 8y ago
    ## source who voted for brexit Repudiation of the story that the leavers feel economically left behind [1]. Some Leavers certainly felt economically left behind, but many did not. Research has since shown that three groups were key to the Brexit vote: - Left Behind Leavers, who were working-class, struggling financially, almost never had a degree, were in their forties or fifties and most of whom did not identify with the main parties or supported the UK Independence Party. - Blue-Collar Pensioners, who were also working-class but retired, and so less likely to be struggling financially and tended to vote for Conservative. - Affluent Eurosceptics, who were much less likely to identify as working-class, more affluent, more likely to have a degree and tended to vote Conservative. While we hear much about the first two groups we have heard very little about the third, and only the first would support the predominant narrative to some degree. [1] http://natcen.ac.uk/our-research/research/understanding-the-leave-vote/ http://natcen.ac.uk/our-research/research/understanding-the-... ## source dismissive attitudes to brexit claims Some sources on it being dismissed as nostalgia: [4] http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/05/brexit-has-its-roots-british-empire-so-how-do-we-explain-it-young http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/05/brexit... [5] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/07/building-brexit-on-myth-of-empire-ignores-history-at-our-peril https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/07/buildi... Some source on it being dismissed as empire 2.0: [6] http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/775399/empire-2-uk-improve-trade-links-african-commonwealth-nations-after-brexit-theresa-may http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/775399/empire-2-uk-improve-... Many of the other points about how Brexit voters are portrayed vs reality is listed here [2] and [3]. ## other articles on the topic More expansive analysis can be found in: [7] https://areomagazine.com/2017/04/21/eurocentrism-remainers-and-the-british-left/ https://areomagazine.com/2017/04/21/eurocentrism-remainers-a... [8] https://quillette.com/2018/08/03/britains-populist-revolt/ https://quillette.com/2018/08/03/britains-populist-revolt/