6 ms·

I don't think NYC is Airbnb's largest market.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
toomanyrichies 8y ago
The New York Times claims NYC is Airbnb's largest US market[1]. And CityLab claims NYC is Airbnb's 3rd-largest market worldwide.[2] However, with respect to whether "the overwhelming majority of its facilitated transactions are illegal": Speaking strictly for NYC (the town I live + Airbnb host in), I think the more relevant metric is- what percent of Airbnb's revenue comes from the illegal kind of rental (i.e. rentals of the entire unit for more than 90 days of the year) vs the legal kind (whole-unit rentals totaling less than 90 days per year, as well as shared-unit rentals of any length)? According to Gothamist, 75% of its NYC revenue came from whole-unit rentals.[6] How much of that was legal is anyone's guess, but this is one reason why Airbnb was fighting tooth and nail to stop the recent city council legislation.[7] NB- Another reason is that, once the city collects hosting data, it will likely use its housing inspection mandate to shut down most if not all Airbnb rentals in the city (not just illegal ones) at the behest of the local hotel employee's union. But that's me speculating, so take it with a grain of salt. Keep in mind that Airbnb made $140 million in NYC in 2018[3], had $2.5 billion in 2017[4], and over $1B in revenue in Q3 of 2018 alone[5]. So the percentage of revenue it contributes is likely between 4-4.5%. If this went away overnight, the company would probably be fine as long as the damage ended there. But there's no guarantee of that, since other cities are considering similar legislation and are looking to see what the outcome of the above battle will be. In the end, NYC will probably succeed in approving a permit system similar to San Francisco's, which will be enough to get the city the information it needs to shut down any Airbnb host it wishes. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/nyregion/new-york-city-airbnb-crackdown.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/nyregion/new-york-city-ai... [2] https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/03/what-airbnb-did-to-new-york-city/552749/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/03/what-airbnb-did-to-ne... [3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-24/airbnb-s-nyc-bookings-could-be-cut-in-half-by-new-rule https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-24/airbnb-s-... [4] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbnb-results/airbnb-had-substantially-more-than-1-billion-in-quarterly-revenue-idUSKCN1NL270 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbnb-results/airbnb-had... [5] https://www.pymnts.com/earnings/2018/airbnb-third-quarter-revenue-ipo/ https://www.pymnts.com/earnings/2018/airbnb-third-quarter-re... [6] http://gothamist.com/2018/06/28/city_council_takes_on_airbnb_commer.php http://gothamist.com/2018/06/28/city_council_takes_on_airbnb... [7] https://ny.curbed.com/2018/7/19/17590164/airbnb-nyc-law-proposal-city-council-passed https://ny.curbed.com/2018/7/19/17590164/airbnb-nyc-law-prop...
- bradleyjg 8y ago
  > whole-unit rentals totaling less than 90 days per year, as well as shared-unit rentals of any length The multiple dwelling law does not allow any whole units to be rented for less than 30 days. There’s no exception for less than 90 days in a year total. From the MDL: A ‘class A’ multiple dwelling is a multiple dwelling that is occupied for permanent residence purposes… ‘Permanent residence purposes’ shall consist of occupancy of a dwelling unit by the same natural person or family for thirty consecutive days or more and a person or family so occupying a dwelling unit shall be referred to herein as the permanent occupants of such dwelling unit. Per your own link that means 75% of nyc Airbnb revenue is derived from facilitating illegal transactions.
  - toomanyrichies 8y ago
    Yep, I stand corrected about the legality of whole-unit rentals less than 30 days. Looks like I was mixing up NYC and SF laws on that point.
- Lucadg 8y ago
  Cities all over Europe have restricted or banned short rentals and many more are considering it. It will be messy and probably the results difficult to measure. On the other end Airbnb is collecting tourist taxes on behalf of some cities. This is particularly interesting because you have a corporation helping a city in something they struggle with (collecting taxes) and making themselves irrepleaceable. Smart move.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

The New York Times claims NYC is Airbnb's largest US market[1]. And CityLab claims NYC is Airbnb's 3rd-largest market worldwide.[2] However, with respect to whether "the overwhelming majority of its facilitated transactions are illegal": Speaking strictly for NYC (the town I live + Airbnb host in), I think the more relevant metric is- what percent of Airbnb's revenue comes from the illegal kind of rental (i.e. rentals of the entire unit for more than 90 days of the year) vs the legal kind (whole-unit rentals totaling less than 90 days per year, as well as shared-unit rentals of any length)? According to Gothamist, 75% of its NYC revenue came from whole-unit rentals.[6] How much of that was legal is anyone's guess, but this is one reason why Airbnb was fighting tooth and nail to stop the recent city council legislation.[7] NB- Another reason is that, once the city collects hosting data, it will likely use its housing inspection mandate to shut down most if not all Airbnb rentals in the city (not just illegal ones) at the behest of the local hotel employee's union. But that's me speculating, so take it with a grain of salt. Keep in mind that Airbnb made $140 million in NYC in 2018[3], had $2.5 billion in 2017[4], and over $1B in revenue in Q3 of 2018 alone[5]. So the percentage of revenue it contributes is likely between 4-4.5%. If this went away overnight, the company would probably be fine as long as the damage ended there. But there's no guarantee of that, since other cities are considering similar legislation and are looking to see what the outcome of the above battle will be. In the end, NYC will probably succeed in approving a permit system similar to San Francisco's, which will be enough to get the city the information it needs to shut down any Airbnb host it wishes. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/nyregion/new-york-city-airbnb-crackdown.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/nyregion/new-york-city-ai... [2] https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/03/what-airbnb-did-to-new-york-city/552749/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/03/what-airbnb-did-to-ne... [3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-24/airbnb-s-nyc-bookings-could-be-cut-in-half-by-new-rule https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-24/airbnb-s-... [4] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbnb-results/airbnb-had-substantially-more-than-1-billion-in-quarterly-revenue-idUSKCN1NL270 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbnb-results/airbnb-had... [5] https://www.pymnts.com/earnings/2018/airbnb-third-quarter-revenue-ipo/ https://www.pymnts.com/earnings/2018/airbnb-third-quarter-re... [6] http://gothamist.com/2018/06/28/city_council_takes_on_airbnb_commer.php http://gothamist.com/2018/06/28/city_council_takes_on_airbnb... [7] https://ny.curbed.com/2018/7/19/17590164/airbnb-nyc-law-proposal-city-council-passed https://ny.curbed.com/2018/7/19/17590164/airbnb-nyc-law-prop...

bradleyjg 8y ago
> whole-unit rentals totaling less than 90 days per year, as well as shared-unit rentals of any length The multiple dwelling law does not allow any whole units to be rented for less than 30 days. There’s no exception for less than 90 days in a year total. From the MDL: A ‘class A’ multiple dwelling is a multiple dwelling that is occupied for permanent residence purposes… ‘Permanent residence purposes’ shall consist of occupancy of a dwelling unit by the same natural person or family for thirty consecutive days or more and a person or family so occupying a dwelling unit shall be referred to herein as the permanent occupants of such dwelling unit. Per your own link that means 75% of nyc Airbnb revenue is derived from facilitating illegal transactions.
- toomanyrichies 8y ago
  Yep, I stand corrected about the legality of whole-unit rentals less than 30 days. Looks like I was mixing up NYC and SF laws on that point.
Lucadg 8y ago
Cities all over Europe have restricted or banned short rentals and many more are considering it. It will be messy and probably the results difficult to measure. On the other end Airbnb is collecting tourist taxes on behalf of some cities. This is particularly interesting because you have a corporation helping a city in something they struggle with (collecting taxes) and making themselves irrepleaceable. Smart move.