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I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new MacBoo

I see a lot of complaining about this keyboard online but I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed. I love the new MacBook keyboards and Touch Bar but it's possible that I'm a complete outlier.

maxxxxx 8y ago
I know people who hate the keyboard on their 2016 or 2017 MacBooks. The 2018 models seem better.
reaperducer 8y ago
I'm of mixed opinion on it. It took a while to get used to using it every day. Now I'm OK with it, except for the arrow keys. My biggest problems are that there are no landmarks for your fingers. I swivel between two or three or four computers when I work, and coming back to the MBP, it's hard to re-center my hands without looking. On earlier MacBooks, I think my brain used the inverted T arrows, because my fingers seem to go there first. I like the touch bar, but it needs more support, and more consistent support. Even from Apple, itself. Sometimes I can authenticate with a fingerprint. Sometimes not. Sometimes confirmations are on the touchbar. Sometimes not. It's an inconsistent experience. All of these problems will become moot in a few weeks anyway, since I ordered a proper full-sized Apple Bluetooth keyboard, trackpad, and riser. I miss my F13-F19 keys more than I like the touchbar.
- blawson 8y ago
  Curious what you mean by no landmarks. I'm typing on a 2017 keyboard and it has the raised marks on the 'F' and 'J' keys to orient for touch typing like every other keyboard I can remember.
Ralfp 8y ago
I've got my MBP on November 2016. Keyboard was ok until one day key "R" didn't click on pressing (it still registered). I've tried blowing air from different angles, shaking, fiddling under it with thin piece of paper to no avail. One day I've pressed it, and it did click, and then it popped out. By then Apple had free servicing action in effect, so I've went to local store and they replaced my top body with new one (also replacing battery, touchpad and speakers). Touchbar is completely useless for me. If anything, it freaks me out because there's absolutely zero feedback to finger when I accidentally touch it.
crispinb 8y ago
I don't think you're an outlier. Most of the people I know who own them don't have a problem with the keyboards. But then they are outnumbered in my circles by people who've either deferred new MB Pro purchases, desperately hoping Apple will relent on the Touch Bar, or (like myself) have moved to other platforms & given up on Apple.
h3throw 8y ago
I actually prefer it even. I don't like the mushy keys on the prior MacBooks. EDIT: That said I find the touchbar to be a gimmick and not something I really like using. It's not much of a downgrade as compared to function keys, however.
caymanjim 8y ago
I owned or worked with many MacBooks from 2003-2015, and the keyboards were always fine. The new keyboards are utter crap. On multiple machines, brand new out of box, the keys stuck, didn't register, or repeated. My personal late-2016 MacBook Pro was the worst, to the point that the V/B/N keys (it's always the ones above the spacebar that are worst) stopped working at all, and I had to have Apple replace it (which they did for free despite it being about 16 months post-purchase). The new keyboard functions, but I expect it to have the same problems. Aside from simply being defective at a high rate, it's also physically unpleasant, but that's more a matter of opinion.
whymsicalburito 8y ago
We obviously haven't talked! I absolutely hate the new butterfly keyboards, it's bothering me as I type this! It makes me feel like I'm one of the attention seeking mechanical keyboard users... Apple has been going downhill for quite a while now. Loud keyboards and giant phones...
Mizza 8y ago
You're an outlier, everybody I know in real life who has one (myself included) think it's stupid and awful.
eslaught 8y ago
I wrote my Ph.D. dissertation on the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard. It's... ok, I don't hate it, but even after years of using it, I still sometimes get this odd feeling that something is slightly off. I've never had this feeling before, with any keyboard except possibly with some of the more aggressive ergonomic keyboards like the Kinesis (and that was more of a layout issue). There are the maintenance issues, but that's not what I'm talking about here. I did have a sticky key (after about a year), and did get it fixed with Apple's free maintenance (edit: so I'm now on the 2018 keyboard), but this feeling I've had from the beginning and still do occasionally. This contrasts in my mind very starkly with my experience with my very first MacBook keyboard circa 2009. I'd never had a Mac before or any kind of laptop, but when I first used the keyboard I never had to think twice about it. This stuck in my memory because of how much people raved about that keyboard at the time; but I guess it's a property of a good thing that you only notice it when it's gone.
- glhaynes 8y ago
  When Apple replaces keyboards, they replace them with the 2018 keyboard (the one with the extra rubber barriers)?
  - eslaught 8y ago
    I understand that they replace them with whatever is newest at the time, so since I did my replacement in fall 2018, yes.
    - zootam 8y ago
      no, this is not correct. 2016-2017s get the 2016-2017 keyboard- without the silicone sheet.
  - gergles 8y ago
    No, they do not. Unfortunately, they are replacing them with the keyboard that your machine came with. Not the 2018 ones that have sort-of fixed the biggest issues.
TomVDB 8y ago
Even if the keys were perfect, the lack of ESC key is disqualifying. I use Caps Lock all the times, so no remapping possible...
forgetcolor 8y ago
I'm okay with the travel changes (and even sometimes prefer it to the old generation). I am unhappy about the increased sound, but can live with it. But the regular problems with repeating keys is an insane regression in functionality. I have this problem with a different key almost every day (today it's my 'i' key), but most days one of the keys repeats itself every time I activate iti, such that—see, that "iti" was a perfect example (I corrected the others)—and the repeat happens usually after the following letter. Drives. me. crazy.
- klodolph 8y ago
  This is a defect. There's a service program for keyboards with problems. I took mine to be serviced and it was returned without repeating keys or stuck keys. https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-macbook-and-macbook-pro/ https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m...
  - forgetcolor 8y ago
    Yes, have tried this. Comes back working and then develops the same problem shortly thereafter. Further, Apple Stores are about a 2.5hr drive for me, so I can't just easily keep popping in for every issue -- especially if I think the fix won't last anyway.
    - zootam 8y ago
      if you eat near the computer or live in a place with lots of dust/debris in the air- and have a 2016-2017 keyboard- it will probably just keep happening.
      - mousecorkkey 8y ago
        I almost bought my first apple computer last year, but I couldn't get over the keyboard. I ended up with a surface book instead but I'm not convinced I made the correct decision since I spend most of my time in linux. It seems so very uncharacteristic for Apple to ship a product that you need to use in a clean room for it to work properly. I don't like to baby my products, they will develop dings and scratches over time.
throwawaymath 8y ago
I'm in the same boat. I prefer mechanical keyboards and have a small hobby collection of them. But I like my 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard and have never had a problem with it. Maybe people who don't have problems with the keyboards don't talk about them as much?
- dkonofalski 8y ago
  This has to be the case. I just polled 2 separate offices informally and there's not a single person that said they have complaints about it, even about the volume of the keys, in a sample size of 30+ people. FWIW, I also prefer a mechanical keyboard but that's not specific to my MacBooks. I prefer to them to any laptop keyboard or normal keyboard out there.
aaronbrethorst 8y ago
I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed I haven't met you in person, but I will tell you that it's even worse. I have a supply of cans of compressed air at home to clean out my MacBook Pro's keyboard on a regular basis lest the keys get stuck. I have never had to do this with any of my previous Mac laptops over the past 17 years.
- aaronbrethorst 8y ago
  Currently the right side of my space bar is non-functional. The left side is working fine.
- oarfish 8y ago
  For such purposes i recommend something like this (an air blower for cameras): https://www.amazon.com/Giottos-AA1900-Rocket-Blaster-Large/dp/B00017LSPI/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1547643201&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=giottos+rocket+air+blower&dpPl=1&dpID=31X%2ByyPQtUL&ref=plSrch https://www.amazon.com/Giottos-AA1900-Rocket-Blaster-Large/d... No need to produce a lot of waste by buying canned air. Unless you pressurise them yourself of course.
  - aaronbrethorst 8y ago
    That's a good idea. However, I've tried my rocket blower. It generates insufficient air pressure to remove detritus trapped under the keys.
- dkonofalski 8y ago
  I have never had to do this with the current MacBook keyboards so I'm at a loss as to what you all are doing to get so much crap under the keys...
bberenberg 8y ago
I have one. B,N,O keys are all having issues. Randomly generated longass password happens to hit all 3. Authing to the system is a nightmare. I travel with a bluetooth keyboard as a result. If I want Apple to replace the keyboard, I have to risk that they will destroy the SSD. Their best solution for me to is to buy another Macbook, clone the system, have them do the repair, then return the spare Macbook. Really frustrating.
whalesalad 8y ago
Same experience. I was weary to get one due to all the hate online but now that I own one I love it.
linkmotif 8y ago
Add me to this list. Just spent a week with a 2018 MBP and grew to love the keyboard. The keys are bigger and something about the feel makes it easier to type. I got use to it in an hour. Looking forward to getting one myself.
tptacek 8y ago
I love the 2016+ Macbook keyboards and find them far more pleasant to type on than the '15 15" keyboard I'm typing on right now. Unfortunately, the reliability issues on them were traumatizing, and I'm viscerally afraid to try the new models (which supposedly rectify the 2016 problems with a gasket).
S_A_P 8y ago
Ive the 2018 i9 MacBook Pro. "upgraded" to this from a 2014 model. Not only is the keyboard not as terrible as claimed its many times worse. I have few words to describe how terrible it is. I use an external keyboard whenever I can. Anyone who uses f9/f10/f11 regularly soon realizes how bad the Touch Bar is for development. When I debug I rest my finger on the f10 key to step through the code. NO CAN DO on a Touch Bar. In fact this is the first Mac I am considering selling, even for a loss. I really hope that someone at apple reads this.
- dkonofalski 8y ago
  I'm just shocked that my experience is so different. I use a mechanical keyboard too when I'm at a desk but I would do that with any laptop, regardless of its keyboard. I'm specifically talking about using the MacBooks keyboard compared to the keyboard on other laptops and I much prefer the MacBook keyboard. I'm also a dev but I'm on the other side. I think it's ridiculous that devs continue to rely on function keys to do that kind of thing. Not only do you have to remember what the F9/F10/F11 keys do for each IDE but it's not consistent in any way between IDEs so you're kinda stuck. I much prefer the Touch Bar, especially where it's actually supported by the IDE, and, where it's not, I'm using Better Touch Tool to set it up exactly how I want it. Now I have dedicated buttons for each of those things that show up in context or that stay at all times, if I choose.
gjsman-1000 8y ago
I have a MacBook Pro 2017. I have had sticky keys - but thankfully only the right arrow and bottom arrow key. I'm actually with Apple on this one - I think it needs revision, but I actually have gotten used to the flat typing. It makes the other keyboards I've tried feel really, really mushy. I can actually type over 90WPM on this thing at typeracer.com. Overall, I wish it was quieter and didn't have sticky keys, but otherwise, the shallowness is no problem for me.
ovao 8y ago
I don’t like the Touch Bar, but the keyboard itself I have no real quarrel with. Weirdly I have two 2016 MacBooks: a 13” base and a spec’ed up 15”. The keyboard on the 13” feels substantially more tactile.
ksec 8y ago
I have yet to seen anyone mind going back to the old MBP 2015 Keyboard, even if they love / like / Ok with the new butterfly keyboard. I have heard countless people wishing to have the old keyboard back and absolutely loathe the new butterfly keyboard. And they refuse to even buy a new one. I just recently sold a new MBP and got a 2nd hand MBP 2015 instead. As a matter of fact the 2nd hand price of MBP has been holding up better than expected all thanks to TouchBar MBP.
Octoth0rpe 8y ago
I love the keyboard, and I've had to repeatedly blow mine out with air to unstick keys. So, I get why people are mad (low reliability), but I'm definitely happy with the actual feel of it. Re: touch bar, I suppose it really depends on what apps people use. Finder, Calendar.app, Mail.app, iTunes all work really nicely with the touchbar. It provides negative value to someone who isn't using an app that supports it unfortunately.
- dkonofalski 8y ago
  Agreed on the TouchBar but I use BetterTouchTool to alleviate the problem with any non-supported apps. BTT really makes the TB super useful in a lot of ways.

maxxxxx 8y ago

I know people who hate the keyboard on their 2016 or 2017 MacBooks. The 2018 models seem better.

reaperducer 8y ago

I'm of mixed opinion on it. It took a while to get used to using it every day. Now I'm OK with it, except for the arrow keys. My biggest problems are that there are no landmarks for your fingers. I swivel between two or three or four computers when I work, and coming back to the MBP, it's hard to re-center my hands without looking. On earlier MacBooks, I think my brain used the inverted T arrows, because my fingers seem to go there first. I like the touch bar, but it needs more support, and more consistent support. Even from Apple, itself. Sometimes I can authenticate with a fingerprint. Sometimes not. Sometimes confirmations are on the touchbar. Sometimes not. It's an inconsistent experience. All of these problems will become moot in a few weeks anyway, since I ordered a proper full-sized Apple Bluetooth keyboard, trackpad, and riser. I miss my F13-F19 keys more than I like the touchbar.

blawson 8y ago
Curious what you mean by no landmarks. I'm typing on a 2017 keyboard and it has the raised marks on the 'F' and 'J' keys to orient for touch typing like every other keyboard I can remember.

Ralfp 8y ago

I've got my MBP on November 2016. Keyboard was ok until one day key "R" didn't click on pressing (it still registered). I've tried blowing air from different angles, shaking, fiddling under it with thin piece of paper to no avail. One day I've pressed it, and it did click, and then it popped out. By then Apple had free servicing action in effect, so I've went to local store and they replaced my top body with new one (also replacing battery, touchpad and speakers). Touchbar is completely useless for me. If anything, it freaks me out because there's absolutely zero feedback to finger when I accidentally touch it.

crispinb 8y ago

I don't think you're an outlier. Most of the people I know who own them don't have a problem with the keyboards. But then they are outnumbered in my circles by people who've either deferred new MB Pro purchases, desperately hoping Apple will relent on the Touch Bar, or (like myself) have moved to other platforms & given up on Apple.

h3throw 8y ago

I actually prefer it even. I don't like the mushy keys on the prior MacBooks. EDIT: That said I find the touchbar to be a gimmick and not something I really like using. It's not much of a downgrade as compared to function keys, however.

caymanjim 8y ago

I owned or worked with many MacBooks from 2003-2015, and the keyboards were always fine. The new keyboards are utter crap. On multiple machines, brand new out of box, the keys stuck, didn't register, or repeated. My personal late-2016 MacBook Pro was the worst, to the point that the V/B/N keys (it's always the ones above the spacebar that are worst) stopped working at all, and I had to have Apple replace it (which they did for free despite it being about 16 months post-purchase). The new keyboard functions, but I expect it to have the same problems. Aside from simply being defective at a high rate, it's also physically unpleasant, but that's more a matter of opinion.

whymsicalburito 8y ago

We obviously haven't talked! I absolutely hate the new butterfly keyboards, it's bothering me as I type this! It makes me feel like I'm one of the attention seeking mechanical keyboard users... Apple has been going downhill for quite a while now. Loud keyboards and giant phones...

Mizza 8y ago

You're an outlier, everybody I know in real life who has one (myself included) think it's stupid and awful.

eslaught 8y ago

I wrote my Ph.D. dissertation on the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard. It's... ok, I don't hate it, but even after years of using it, I still sometimes get this odd feeling that something is slightly off. I've never had this feeling before, with any keyboard except possibly with some of the more aggressive ergonomic keyboards like the Kinesis (and that was more of a layout issue). There are the maintenance issues, but that's not what I'm talking about here. I did have a sticky key (after about a year), and did get it fixed with Apple's free maintenance (edit: so I'm now on the 2018 keyboard), but this feeling I've had from the beginning and still do occasionally. This contrasts in my mind very starkly with my experience with my very first MacBook keyboard circa 2009. I'd never had a Mac before or any kind of laptop, but when I first used the keyboard I never had to think twice about it. This stuck in my memory because of how much people raved about that keyboard at the time; but I guess it's a property of a good thing that you only notice it when it's gone.

glhaynes 8y ago
When Apple replaces keyboards, they replace them with the 2018 keyboard (the one with the extra rubber barriers)?
- eslaught 8y ago
  I understand that they replace them with whatever is newest at the time, so since I did my replacement in fall 2018, yes.
  - zootam 8y ago
    no, this is not correct. 2016-2017s get the 2016-2017 keyboard- without the silicone sheet.
- gergles 8y ago
  No, they do not. Unfortunately, they are replacing them with the keyboard that your machine came with. Not the 2018 ones that have sort-of fixed the biggest issues.

TomVDB 8y ago

Even if the keys were perfect, the lack of ESC key is disqualifying. I use Caps Lock all the times, so no remapping possible...

forgetcolor 8y ago

I'm okay with the travel changes (and even sometimes prefer it to the old generation). I am unhappy about the increased sound, but can live with it. But the regular problems with repeating keys is an insane regression in functionality. I have this problem with a different key almost every day (today it's my 'i' key), but most days one of the keys repeats itself every time I activate iti, such that—see, that "iti" was a perfect example (I corrected the others)—and the repeat happens usually after the following letter. Drives. me. crazy.

klodolph 8y ago
This is a defect. There's a service program for keyboards with problems. I took mine to be serviced and it was returned without repeating keys or stuck keys. https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-macbook-and-macbook-pro/ https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m...
- forgetcolor 8y ago
  Yes, have tried this. Comes back working and then develops the same problem shortly thereafter. Further, Apple Stores are about a 2.5hr drive for me, so I can't just easily keep popping in for every issue -- especially if I think the fix won't last anyway.
  - zootam 8y ago
    if you eat near the computer or live in a place with lots of dust/debris in the air- and have a 2016-2017 keyboard- it will probably just keep happening.
    - mousecorkkey 8y ago
      I almost bought my first apple computer last year, but I couldn't get over the keyboard. I ended up with a surface book instead but I'm not convinced I made the correct decision since I spend most of my time in linux. It seems so very uncharacteristic for Apple to ship a product that you need to use in a clean room for it to work properly. I don't like to baby my products, they will develop dings and scratches over time.

throwawaymath 8y ago

I'm in the same boat. I prefer mechanical keyboards and have a small hobby collection of them. But I like my 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard and have never had a problem with it. Maybe people who don't have problems with the keyboards don't talk about them as much?

dkonofalski 8y ago
This has to be the case. I just polled 2 separate offices informally and there's not a single person that said they have complaints about it, even about the volume of the keys, in a sample size of 30+ people. FWIW, I also prefer a mechanical keyboard but that's not specific to my MacBooks. I prefer to them to any laptop keyboard or normal keyboard out there.

aaronbrethorst 8y ago

I have yet to meet someone in person that thought it was as terrible as claimed I haven't met you in person, but I will tell you that it's even worse. I have a supply of cans of compressed air at home to clean out my MacBook Pro's keyboard on a regular basis lest the keys get stuck. I have never had to do this with any of my previous Mac laptops over the past 17 years.

aaronbrethorst 8y ago
Currently the right side of my space bar is non-functional. The left side is working fine.
oarfish 8y ago
For such purposes i recommend something like this (an air blower for cameras): https://www.amazon.com/Giottos-AA1900-Rocket-Blaster-Large/dp/B00017LSPI/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1547643201&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=giottos+rocket+air+blower&dpPl=1&dpID=31X%2ByyPQtUL&ref=plSrch https://www.amazon.com/Giottos-AA1900-Rocket-Blaster-Large/d... No need to produce a lot of waste by buying canned air. Unless you pressurise them yourself of course.
- aaronbrethorst 8y ago
  That's a good idea. However, I've tried my rocket blower. It generates insufficient air pressure to remove detritus trapped under the keys.
dkonofalski 8y ago
I have never had to do this with the current MacBook keyboards so I'm at a loss as to what you all are doing to get so much crap under the keys...

bberenberg 8y ago

I have one. B,N,O keys are all having issues. Randomly generated longass password happens to hit all 3. Authing to the system is a nightmare. I travel with a bluetooth keyboard as a result. If I want Apple to replace the keyboard, I have to risk that they will destroy the SSD. Their best solution for me to is to buy another Macbook, clone the system, have them do the repair, then return the spare Macbook. Really frustrating.

whalesalad 8y ago

Same experience. I was weary to get one due to all the hate online but now that I own one I love it.

linkmotif 8y ago

Add me to this list. Just spent a week with a 2018 MBP and grew to love the keyboard. The keys are bigger and something about the feel makes it easier to type. I got use to it in an hour. Looking forward to getting one myself.

tptacek 8y ago

I love the 2016+ Macbook keyboards and find them far more pleasant to type on than the '15 15" keyboard I'm typing on right now. Unfortunately, the reliability issues on them were traumatizing, and I'm viscerally afraid to try the new models (which supposedly rectify the 2016 problems with a gasket).

S_A_P 8y ago

Ive the 2018 i9 MacBook Pro. "upgraded" to this from a 2014 model. Not only is the keyboard not as terrible as claimed its many times worse. I have few words to describe how terrible it is. I use an external keyboard whenever I can. Anyone who uses f9/f10/f11 regularly soon realizes how bad the Touch Bar is for development. When I debug I rest my finger on the f10 key to step through the code. NO CAN DO on a Touch Bar. In fact this is the first Mac I am considering selling, even for a loss. I really hope that someone at apple reads this.

dkonofalski 8y ago
I'm just shocked that my experience is so different. I use a mechanical keyboard too when I'm at a desk but I would do that with any laptop, regardless of its keyboard. I'm specifically talking about using the MacBooks keyboard compared to the keyboard on other laptops and I much prefer the MacBook keyboard. I'm also a dev but I'm on the other side. I think it's ridiculous that devs continue to rely on function keys to do that kind of thing. Not only do you have to remember what the F9/F10/F11 keys do for each IDE but it's not consistent in any way between IDEs so you're kinda stuck. I much prefer the Touch Bar, especially where it's actually supported by the IDE, and, where it's not, I'm using Better Touch Tool to set it up exactly how I want it. Now I have dedicated buttons for each of those things that show up in context or that stay at all times, if I choose.

gjsman-1000 8y ago

I have a MacBook Pro 2017. I have had sticky keys - but thankfully only the right arrow and bottom arrow key. I'm actually with Apple on this one - I think it needs revision, but I actually have gotten used to the flat typing. It makes the other keyboards I've tried feel really, really mushy. I can actually type over 90WPM on this thing at typeracer.com. Overall, I wish it was quieter and didn't have sticky keys, but otherwise, the shallowness is no problem for me.

ovao 8y ago

I don’t like the Touch Bar, but the keyboard itself I have no real quarrel with. Weirdly I have two 2016 MacBooks: a 13” base and a spec’ed up 15”. The keyboard on the 13” feels substantially more tactile.

ksec 8y ago

I have yet to seen anyone mind going back to the old MBP 2015 Keyboard, even if they love / like / Ok with the new butterfly keyboard. I have heard countless people wishing to have the old keyboard back and absolutely loathe the new butterfly keyboard. And they refuse to even buy a new one. I just recently sold a new MBP and got a 2nd hand MBP 2015 instead. As a matter of fact the 2nd hand price of MBP has been holding up better than expected all thanks to TouchBar MBP.

Octoth0rpe 8y ago

I love the keyboard, and I've had to repeatedly blow mine out with air to unstick keys. So, I get why people are mad (low reliability), but I'm definitely happy with the actual feel of it. Re: touch bar, I suppose it really depends on what apps people use. Finder, Calendar.app, Mail.app, iTunes all work really nicely with the touchbar. It provides negative value to someone who isn't using an app that supports it unfortunately.

dkonofalski 8y ago
Agreed on the TouchBar but I use BetterTouchTool to alleviate the problem with any non-supported apps. BTT really makes the TB super useful in a lot of ways.