4 ms·

> the overwhelming majority of its facilitated transactions are illegal. Any source on that? I know some municipalities regulate rentals now, but to say that t

> the overwhelming majority of its facilitated transactions are illegal. Any source on that? I know some municipalities regulate rentals now, but to say that the vast majority of them operate illegally is a bold claim to make with no data presented.

bradleyjg 8y ago
In NYC, Airbnb’s largest market, with tiny exceptions, it is illegal to rent out an entire apartment (i.e. host not present) for less than 30 days.
- Shivetya 8y ago
  I am curious if Mayor Bill de Blasio will go after landlords who permit or partake of this following his recent declaration they will confiscate property of landlords they consider abusive or failing to maintain property to new standards. Of course he plans to turn them over to non profits which is code for politically connected groups which support him, but the idea that they don't put an Airbnb clause into the abusive category isn't baseless. AirBnb is going to get knocked down a peg or two once the states get involved, they are able to dance around many cities and their attempts to reign it in but once a state level attorney comes for them it won't be simple. however as with uber this comes down to private property rights, who do you choose to side with. Me, I am with the property owners as a Libertarian but I am with government regulation so that it is not abused to the injury of others. Specifically the idea of evicting people or requiring them to vacate during high profile events in town
  - bradleyjg 8y ago
    Here’s one recent lawsuit seeking $21 million: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=9oXwjxhzUZCWNhplGXSoSA==&system=prod https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet...
  - bradleyjg 8y ago
    > however as with uber this comes down to private property rights, who do you choose to side with. Me, I am with the property owners as a Libertarian What about the property rights of the landlord? The co-op? Fellow condo owners? In addition to violating state law most of these units in NYC are being rented in violation of signed agreements (leases, proprietary leases, condo rules incorporated into purchase agreements).
- jeremyis 8y ago
  I don't think NYC is Airbnb's largest market.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - toomanyrichies 8y ago
    The New York Times claims NYC is Airbnb's largest US market[1]. And CityLab claims NYC is Airbnb's 3rd-largest market worldwide.[2] However, with respect to whether "the overwhelming majority of its facilitated transactions are illegal": Speaking strictly for NYC (the town I live + Airbnb host in), I think the more relevant metric is- what percent of Airbnb's revenue comes from the illegal kind of rental (i.e. rentals of the entire unit for more than 90 days of the year) vs the legal kind (whole-unit rentals totaling less than 90 days per year, as well as shared-unit rentals of any length)? According to Gothamist, 75% of its NYC revenue came from whole-unit rentals.[6] How much of that was legal is anyone's guess, but this is one reason why Airbnb was fighting tooth and nail to stop the recent city council legislation.[7] NB- Another reason is that, once the city collects hosting data, it will likely use its housing inspection mandate to shut down most if not all Airbnb rentals in the city (not just illegal ones) at the behest of the local hotel employee's union. But that's me speculating, so take it with a grain of salt. Keep in mind that Airbnb made $140 million in NYC in 2018[3], had $2.5 billion in 2017[4], and over $1B in revenue in Q3 of 2018 alone[5]. So the percentage of revenue it contributes is likely between 4-4.5%. If this went away overnight, the company would probably be fine as long as the damage ended there. But there's no guarantee of that, since other cities are considering similar legislation and are looking to see what the outcome of the above battle will be. In the end, NYC will probably succeed in approving a permit system similar to San Francisco's, which will be enough to get the city the information it needs to shut down any Airbnb host it wishes. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/nyregion/new-york-city-airbnb-crackdown.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/nyregion/new-york-city-ai... [2] https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/03/what-airbnb-did-to-new-york-city/552749/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/03/what-airbnb-did-to-ne... [3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-24/airbnb-s-nyc-bookings-could-be-cut-in-half-by-new-rule https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-24/airbnb-s-... [4] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbnb-results/airbnb-had-substantially-more-than-1-billion-in-quarterly-revenue-idUSKCN1NL270 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbnb-results/airbnb-had... [5] https://www.pymnts.com/earnings/2018/airbnb-third-quarter-revenue-ipo/ https://www.pymnts.com/earnings/2018/airbnb-third-quarter-re... [6] http://gothamist.com/2018/06/28/city_council_takes_on_airbnb_commer.php http://gothamist.com/2018/06/28/city_council_takes_on_airbnb... [7] https://ny.curbed.com/2018/7/19/17590164/airbnb-nyc-law-proposal-city-council-passed https://ny.curbed.com/2018/7/19/17590164/airbnb-nyc-law-prop...
- sjg007 8y ago
  NYC is crazy expensive. The govt will go after landlords first and then the subleases nest.. So if everyone in a building is airbnb but not directly owned by the landlord then forget it.

bradleyjg 8y ago

In NYC, Airbnb’s largest market, with tiny exceptions, it is illegal to rent out an entire apartment (i.e. host not present) for less than 30 days.

Shivetya 8y ago
I am curious if Mayor Bill de Blasio will go after landlords who permit or partake of this following his recent declaration they will confiscate property of landlords they consider abusive or failing to maintain property to new standards. Of course he plans to turn them over to non profits which is code for politically connected groups which support him, but the idea that they don't put an Airbnb clause into the abusive category isn't baseless. AirBnb is going to get knocked down a peg or two once the states get involved, they are able to dance around many cities and their attempts to reign it in but once a state level attorney comes for them it won't be simple. however as with uber this comes down to private property rights, who do you choose to side with. Me, I am with the property owners as a Libertarian but I am with government regulation so that it is not abused to the injury of others. Specifically the idea of evicting people or requiring them to vacate during high profile events in town
- bradleyjg 8y ago
  Here’s one recent lawsuit seeking $21 million: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet?documentId=9oXwjxhzUZCWNhplGXSoSA==&system=prod https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbem/DocumentDisplayServlet...
- bradleyjg 8y ago
  > however as with uber this comes down to private property rights, who do you choose to side with. Me, I am with the property owners as a Libertarian What about the property rights of the landlord? The co-op? Fellow condo owners? In addition to violating state law most of these units in NYC are being rented in violation of signed agreements (leases, proprietary leases, condo rules incorporated into purchase agreements).
jeremyis 8y ago
I don't think NYC is Airbnb's largest market.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- toomanyrichies 8y ago
  The New York Times claims NYC is Airbnb's largest US market[1]. And CityLab claims NYC is Airbnb's 3rd-largest market worldwide.[2] However, with respect to whether "the overwhelming majority of its facilitated transactions are illegal": Speaking strictly for NYC (the town I live + Airbnb host in), I think the more relevant metric is- what percent of Airbnb's revenue comes from the illegal kind of rental (i.e. rentals of the entire unit for more than 90 days of the year) vs the legal kind (whole-unit rentals totaling less than 90 days per year, as well as shared-unit rentals of any length)? According to Gothamist, 75% of its NYC revenue came from whole-unit rentals.[6] How much of that was legal is anyone's guess, but this is one reason why Airbnb was fighting tooth and nail to stop the recent city council legislation.[7] NB- Another reason is that, once the city collects hosting data, it will likely use its housing inspection mandate to shut down most if not all Airbnb rentals in the city (not just illegal ones) at the behest of the local hotel employee's union. But that's me speculating, so take it with a grain of salt. Keep in mind that Airbnb made $140 million in NYC in 2018[3], had $2.5 billion in 2017[4], and over $1B in revenue in Q3 of 2018 alone[5]. So the percentage of revenue it contributes is likely between 4-4.5%. If this went away overnight, the company would probably be fine as long as the damage ended there. But there's no guarantee of that, since other cities are considering similar legislation and are looking to see what the outcome of the above battle will be. In the end, NYC will probably succeed in approving a permit system similar to San Francisco's, which will be enough to get the city the information it needs to shut down any Airbnb host it wishes. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/nyregion/new-york-city-airbnb-crackdown.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/nyregion/new-york-city-ai... [2] https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/03/what-airbnb-did-to-new-york-city/552749/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/03/what-airbnb-did-to-ne... [3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-24/airbnb-s-nyc-bookings-could-be-cut-in-half-by-new-rule https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-24/airbnb-s-... [4] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbnb-results/airbnb-had-substantially-more-than-1-billion-in-quarterly-revenue-idUSKCN1NL270 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbnb-results/airbnb-had... [5] https://www.pymnts.com/earnings/2018/airbnb-third-quarter-revenue-ipo/ https://www.pymnts.com/earnings/2018/airbnb-third-quarter-re... [6] http://gothamist.com/2018/06/28/city_council_takes_on_airbnb_commer.php http://gothamist.com/2018/06/28/city_council_takes_on_airbnb... [7] https://ny.curbed.com/2018/7/19/17590164/airbnb-nyc-law-proposal-city-council-passed https://ny.curbed.com/2018/7/19/17590164/airbnb-nyc-law-prop...
sjg007 8y ago
NYC is crazy expensive. The govt will go after landlords first and then the subleases nest.. So if everyone in a building is airbnb but not directly owned by the landlord then forget it.