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Super skeptical here, or at least the wording is misleading as hell. > The product allows users to charge a 60kWh EV battery pack with 119 miles of range in 15

Super skeptical here, or at least the wording is misleading as hell. > The product allows users to charge a 60kWh EV battery pack with 119 miles of range in 15 minutes as compared to 15 miles in 15 minutes today. > The technology works with off-the-shelf lithium ion batteries and existing fast charge infrastructure by integrating via a patented self-contained adapter on a car charge port First read says that they're delivering 60kWh in 15min, or they're pumping electrons at 240kW. This is just nonsense -- most deployed DC fast chargers are 50kW... the charger companies and the OEMs are experimenting with 200kW chargers, but those are liquid cooled. So physics says this is nonsense. Okay, so second read: the 60 kWh is distracting technobabble, and what they're ACTUALLY doing is "adding 119 miles of range in 15 minutes." The just-announced Nissan Leaf e+ has a 62 kWh battery with 226 miles of range. When you DC Fast Charge, going from 0-80% takes about as much time as going from 80-100% (EV roadtripping is about doing frequent small charging because of this phenomenon, not one-time top-offs like with gas). The Nissan Leaf e+ is about a 60 kWh battery, and if they're adding "119 miles of range in 15 minutes", that's about half the Leaf's 226 mi range, so call it "30 kWh of charge in 15 min". That means they're charging at an average of 120kW. Okay, now we're back within the realm of physics. Note the Leaf e+'s (yet unreleased hardware) still only accepts a maximum of 100kW DC fast charging. I think jaguar has experimented with 150kW charging on the ipace (but again, liquid cooled cables). So they're saying they found a way to cycle fast charging and get about a 20% improvement in average charging rate from the current kinda-top-of-the-line tech, and only for the first 50% battery capacity. Not nothing, but hardly "as quickly as visiting the pump", especially since whatever tricks they use likely won't continue for the next 50% of the battery.

spullara 8y ago
Tesla superchargers also peak out at 120KW.
timsher 8y ago
Hi! I'm one of the founders at GBatteries, please let me try to clear that up. We've demonstrated 5 min to 50% charge, 10 min to 100% - I’ll edit this to include a demo that we’ve done at CES 2019, and that we’re now exhibiting at the Detroit Auto show demonstrating. [EDIT] Video here: https://youtu.be/kSLrqR4TfnU https://youtu.be/kSLrqR4TfnU Note: Charging times can vary by ~1 minute here and there, because the algorithm is adaptive and characteristics of batteries change from moment to moment. >First read says that they're delivering 60kWh in 15min, or they're pumping electrons at 240kW. This is just nonsense -- most deployed DC fast chargers are 50kW... the charger companies and the OEMs are experimenting with 200kW chargers, but those are liquid cooled. So physics says this is nonsense. >Okay, so second read: the 60 kWh is distracting technobabble, and what they're ACTUALLY doing is "adding 119 miles of range in 15 minutes." There’s a mistake in the article, in both cases it should be in 5 minutes; should be corrected shortly. In this example, we’re talking about a 60kWh battery with 238 miles of range (Chevy Bolt). Right now the car charges 90miles in 30 minutes, or 15 miles in 5 minutes because the manufacturer limits the charging rate for the batteries in order to preserve their life. Our technology can enable these Li-ion batteries to charge in 5 min to 50%, or 119 miles. This example assumes that the car goes to a fast charging station that has enough power to charge the vehicle in this time; fast charge infrastructure that’s currently being put up by companies like Ionity (350kW), Electrify America, or Charge Point (500kW capability). The problem with batteries today is not charging speed; it’s possible to charge any battery quickly, but the faster you charge a battery the faster it will degrade. Our technology is able to decrease the irreversible chemical reactions that happen during charging, so that the same batteries can be charged fast without compromising cycle life.
- lgleason 8y ago
  This makes more sense....I posted another comment, but the long and short is that you would need to be able to bypass the manufacturers controller to do this, which it sounds like you are saying.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - timsher 8y ago
    That's correct, we're not able to fast charge at these levels without approval from the OEM because of the limits they have built. We need to either be integrated inside of the vehicle, or on the charger but have the vehicles "approval" for charging at these higher rates, as at Level 3 and up it's DC to the pack.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Correct me if I'm mistaken, but this seems like a B2B/acquisition play masquerading as a B2C play; your value (if proven) is a superior battery management system (versus the OEM's or a supplier's) and charge controller for non-Tesla EVs (hinging on the battery pack instrumentation architecture).
      - timsher 8y ago
        You're absolutely right; our business model is to license the technology to manufacturers (OEM, Tier 1, etc) - not B2C to anyone with an EV.
        toomuchtodo 8y ago
        Awesome, hope your team is successful.
      - bostonpete 8y ago
        Why do you say it's masquerading as B2C? It seems like straight up B2B to me...
sandworm101 8y ago
"119 miles of range in 15 minutes" is also nowhere near as fast as an IC car "visiting the pump". It does not take 15 minutes to fill the tank on a normal car. Short of physically swapping out batteries, charging an EC will never be as fast as pouring gasoline into a tank. Transferring that much energy that quickly over wires is ... I don't want to stand anywhere near it. Fillup time is not an are where EC should try to compete.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  I never finished school, so correct anything I've got wrong here. Diesel has a specific energy of 48MJ/kg and weighs 0.832kg/L. 48MJ converts to 13.33kWh. My diesel tank will take 70L from nearly empty. I've never timed it, but it's definitely substantially quicker than 10 minutes to fill. So I'm transferring about 776kWh in to my diesel tank in <10 mins. 70 * 0.832 * 13.33 = 776.33kWh So it would take a 1MW charger three quarters of an hour to transfer the same amount of energy. <gasp> Did I get any of that right?
  - kazinator 8y ago
    That's to say nothing of a caravan of trucks such as yours with full 70l tanks, barrelling down the freeway. If three such vehicles pass a given point per second, that's like 144 MW of power, I think!
  - solarkraft 8y ago
    Seems about correct by energy going into your tank, but not energy actually going to the road later. Divide your result for that by 4 or 5.
- gniv 8y ago
  > "119 miles of range in 15 minutes" is also nowhere near as fast as an IC car "visiting the pump". The article was corrected to say 5 minutes. See also replies from timsher upthread.
pkulak 8y ago
VAG is releasing a car shortly (March) that can charge at 150 Kw, and has deployed some charges in Europe and the US that can put out that much power. Last I heard, the iPace is listed as accepting 100 kW, but no one has seen over 80 yet.
C1sc0cat 8y ago
I wonder if you need to cool the battery pack charging at that rate you could imagine having a connector that hooked up a battery both to electricity and to a cooling circuit that pumped water round the battery pack as it charged

spullara 8y ago

Tesla superchargers also peak out at 120KW.

timsher 8y ago

Hi! I'm one of the founders at GBatteries, please let me try to clear that up. We've demonstrated 5 min to 50% charge, 10 min to 100% - I’ll edit this to include a demo that we’ve done at CES 2019, and that we’re now exhibiting at the Detroit Auto show demonstrating. [EDIT] Video here: https://youtu.be/kSLrqR4TfnU https://youtu.be/kSLrqR4TfnU Note: Charging times can vary by ~1 minute here and there, because the algorithm is adaptive and characteristics of batteries change from moment to moment. >First read says that they're delivering 60kWh in 15min, or they're pumping electrons at 240kW. This is just nonsense -- most deployed DC fast chargers are 50kW... the charger companies and the OEMs are experimenting with 200kW chargers, but those are liquid cooled. So physics says this is nonsense. >Okay, so second read: the 60 kWh is distracting technobabble, and what they're ACTUALLY doing is "adding 119 miles of range in 15 minutes." There’s a mistake in the article, in both cases it should be in 5 minutes; should be corrected shortly. In this example, we’re talking about a 60kWh battery with 238 miles of range (Chevy Bolt). Right now the car charges 90miles in 30 minutes, or 15 miles in 5 minutes because the manufacturer limits the charging rate for the batteries in order to preserve their life. Our technology can enable these Li-ion batteries to charge in 5 min to 50%, or 119 miles. This example assumes that the car goes to a fast charging station that has enough power to charge the vehicle in this time; fast charge infrastructure that’s currently being put up by companies like Ionity (350kW), Electrify America, or Charge Point (500kW capability). The problem with batteries today is not charging speed; it’s possible to charge any battery quickly, but the faster you charge a battery the faster it will degrade. Our technology is able to decrease the irreversible chemical reactions that happen during charging, so that the same batteries can be charged fast without compromising cycle life.

lgleason 8y ago
This makes more sense....I posted another comment, but the long and short is that you would need to be able to bypass the manufacturers controller to do this, which it sounds like you are saying.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- timsher 8y ago
  That's correct, we're not able to fast charge at these levels without approval from the OEM because of the limits they have built. We need to either be integrated inside of the vehicle, or on the charger but have the vehicles "approval" for charging at these higher rates, as at Level 3 and up it's DC to the pack.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Correct me if I'm mistaken, but this seems like a B2B/acquisition play masquerading as a B2C play; your value (if proven) is a superior battery management system (versus the OEM's or a supplier's) and charge controller for non-Tesla EVs (hinging on the battery pack instrumentation architecture).
    - timsher 8y ago
      You're absolutely right; our business model is to license the technology to manufacturers (OEM, Tier 1, etc) - not B2C to anyone with an EV.
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        Awesome, hope your team is successful.
    - bostonpete 8y ago
      Why do you say it's masquerading as B2C? It seems like straight up B2B to me...

sandworm101 8y ago

"119 miles of range in 15 minutes" is also nowhere near as fast as an IC car "visiting the pump". It does not take 15 minutes to fill the tank on a normal car. Short of physically swapping out batteries, charging an EC will never be as fast as pouring gasoline into a tank. Transferring that much energy that quickly over wires is ... I don't want to stand anywhere near it. Fillup time is not an are where EC should try to compete.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
I never finished school, so correct anything I've got wrong here. Diesel has a specific energy of 48MJ/kg and weighs 0.832kg/L. 48MJ converts to 13.33kWh. My diesel tank will take 70L from nearly empty. I've never timed it, but it's definitely substantially quicker than 10 minutes to fill. So I'm transferring about 776kWh in to my diesel tank in <10 mins. 70 * 0.832 * 13.33 = 776.33kWh So it would take a 1MW charger three quarters of an hour to transfer the same amount of energy. <gasp> Did I get any of that right?
- kazinator 8y ago
  That's to say nothing of a caravan of trucks such as yours with full 70l tanks, barrelling down the freeway. If three such vehicles pass a given point per second, that's like 144 MW of power, I think!
- solarkraft 8y ago
  Seems about correct by energy going into your tank, but not energy actually going to the road later. Divide your result for that by 4 or 5.
gniv 8y ago
> "119 miles of range in 15 minutes" is also nowhere near as fast as an IC car "visiting the pump". The article was corrected to say 5 minutes. See also replies from timsher upthread.

pkulak 8y ago

VAG is releasing a car shortly (March) that can charge at 150 Kw, and has deployed some charges in Europe and the US that can put out that much power. Last I heard, the iPace is listed as accepting 100 kW, but no one has seen over 80 yet.

C1sc0cat 8y ago

I wonder if you need to cool the battery pack charging at that rate you could imagine having a connector that hooked up a battery both to electricity and to a cooling circuit that pumped water round the battery pack as it charged