7 ms·

And here I was recently musing to myself that if something embedded into our societal imagination, like the giraffe, went nearly extinct due to climate change,

And here I was recently musing to myself that if something embedded into our societal imagination, like the giraffe, went nearly extinct due to climate change, that would wake people up before it's too late. Little did I know that's already essentially happened here according to this article, and the powers that be neither seem to be aware nor care. And because I was curious: Giraffes are now on the endangered species list as of about two months ago [1]. Go figure. When do we do something? [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/11/14/giraffes-risk-extinction-animals-listed-critically-endangered/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/11/14/giraffes-risk...

ribasushi 8y ago
I read a very in-depth write-up on your last question couple weeks ago. Have tried to post it on HN a few times with no luck. Won't spoil the "when" answer for you: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18753499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18753499
amelius 8y ago
We don't do anything because people read too much pop-sci, pretending that we can just store the DNA.
brazzy 8y ago
> When do we do something? When it significantly impacts the daily lives of a majority of people, and not a second earlier.
- lucideer 8y ago
  > When it significantly impacts the daily lives of a majority of relatively economically comfortable people, and not a second earlier.
- EGreg 8y ago
  Majority of which people? Honduras is being impacted. Our reaction in the USA is to block the refugees fleeing famine and drought from reaching us and “invading”. Similarly with Europe and African refugees.
  - insertcredit 8y ago
    The average IQ in Honduras is around 80 and the average of IQ in sub-saharan Africa is below 70 [1]. Why would any technologically advanced country want hordes of refugees with low IQs? [1] https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html
  - vokep 8y ago
    A significant portion of those "refugees" are seeking safety from problems that can be solved at home, not famine.
- empath75 8y ago
  By then it will be too late.
- petilon 8y ago
  When it significantly impacts the daily lives of uneducated Americans. Educated people around the world already want to do something. Uneducated people outside America already want to do something (because their governments are on board.) It is uneducated Americans -- and their president -- that is going to do us all in. This means the survival of the planet depends on our ability to communicate with and convince uneducated Americans. That's hard. Al Gore tried long ago with his movie.
  - vzq 8y ago
    You live in a fantasy world if you think uneducated people outside America give two fucks about global warming. Most uneducated people outside America live worse lives than uneducated people in America, so they have much more important and immediate things to care about than global warming.
    - petilon 8y ago
      Outside America the governments are on board. The only country not in Paris Accord is the USA (which also happens to be, historically, the biggest contributor to global warming).
  - WhompingWindows 8y ago
    It's sort of delusional to say that un-educated people and Trump are the problem. Educated people have vastly huger carbon footprints than non-educated people, thinking globally. Is it the poor people in Africa and Southern/Southeastern Asia that are to blame, or is it the rich people who literally use 10X or 100X more carbon emission in their daily lives? What about the historical emissions of our ancestors - I know mine as an American/WASP are HUGE considering all the cars/planes/meat that have been consumed by my ancestors. Compare that to a line of subsistence farmers in other countries. While I believe in climate change, it doesn't matter, I'm still on the hook for FAR more historical emissions than those un-educated people. Carbon emissions are going up globally, carbon emissions went up in the USA, slightly different political environments won't change the reality that the vast majority of people, societies, and companies have done far less than they need to already. We can't fool ourselves into thinking a democratic presidential win in 2020 will stop this crisis, it simply won't be enough by any rational view of the emissions already out and coming out every day. Even the favorite policy of democrats/progressives, the carbon tax, got voted down in multiple progressive-state reforanda. In summary, it feels good to point the finger of blame at the current political regime, but the reality is very little is being done anywhere except for pockets of hope like Norway, California, Iceland, Hawaii, which are NOT enough to balance out historical emissions and rising emissions in China, India, etc.
EGreg 8y ago
Tigers are nearly extinct. People don’t care.
- mrob 8y ago
  I wouldn't have any problem with tigers going extinct in the wild. From Wikipedia: "The most comprehensive study of deaths due to tiger attacks estimates that at least 373,000 people died due to tiger attacks between 1800 and 2009, the majority of these attacks occurring in South and Southeast Asia.[1] Over the last five centuries, an estimated 1 million people have been eaten by tigers.[2]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_attack
  - vixen99 8y ago
    No problem at all! So put tigers at the top of your list and work slowly but surely down the the list of 'nasty' animals and plants. Doubtless we can eliminate the whole damn lot if we really try. You'll be a hero! Or maybe not.
    - mrob 8y ago
      I'd put malaria carrying mosquitoes at the top of the list, not tigers. The concept of a tiger is an important part of human culture, and it would be a pity if nobody could see a real one, but they breed in captivity, so people can see them in zoos. It's easy to romanticize the idea of "wild tigers" when they live far from you, and you're at no risk of one eating you or your livestock. Humans killed most wild tigers for good reason.
      - Tushon 8y ago
        Would you say the same thing about wolves, re the wolves returning to Yellowstone? https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wolf-reintroduc...
        8y ago
0xBA5ED 8y ago
Something like a sudden coffee shortage would get people involved for sure.

ribasushi 8y ago

I read a very in-depth write-up on your last question couple weeks ago. Have tried to post it on HN a few times with no luck. Won't spoil the "when" answer for you: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18753499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18753499

amelius 8y ago

We don't do anything because people read too much pop-sci, pretending that we can just store the DNA.

brazzy 8y ago

> When do we do something? When it significantly impacts the daily lives of a majority of people, and not a second earlier.

lucideer 8y ago
> When it significantly impacts the daily lives of a majority of relatively economically comfortable people, and not a second earlier.
EGreg 8y ago
Majority of which people? Honduras is being impacted. Our reaction in the USA is to block the refugees fleeing famine and drought from reaching us and “invading”. Similarly with Europe and African refugees.
- insertcredit 8y ago
  The average IQ in Honduras is around 80 and the average of IQ in sub-saharan Africa is below 70 [1]. Why would any technologically advanced country want hordes of refugees with low IQs? [1] https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html
- vokep 8y ago
  A significant portion of those "refugees" are seeking safety from problems that can be solved at home, not famine.
empath75 8y ago
By then it will be too late.
petilon 8y ago
When it significantly impacts the daily lives of uneducated Americans. Educated people around the world already want to do something. Uneducated people outside America already want to do something (because their governments are on board.) It is uneducated Americans -- and their president -- that is going to do us all in. This means the survival of the planet depends on our ability to communicate with and convince uneducated Americans. That's hard. Al Gore tried long ago with his movie.
- vzq 8y ago
  You live in a fantasy world if you think uneducated people outside America give two fucks about global warming. Most uneducated people outside America live worse lives than uneducated people in America, so they have much more important and immediate things to care about than global warming.
  - petilon 8y ago
    Outside America the governments are on board. The only country not in Paris Accord is the USA (which also happens to be, historically, the biggest contributor to global warming).
- WhompingWindows 8y ago
  It's sort of delusional to say that un-educated people and Trump are the problem. Educated people have vastly huger carbon footprints than non-educated people, thinking globally. Is it the poor people in Africa and Southern/Southeastern Asia that are to blame, or is it the rich people who literally use 10X or 100X more carbon emission in their daily lives? What about the historical emissions of our ancestors - I know mine as an American/WASP are HUGE considering all the cars/planes/meat that have been consumed by my ancestors. Compare that to a line of subsistence farmers in other countries. While I believe in climate change, it doesn't matter, I'm still on the hook for FAR more historical emissions than those un-educated people. Carbon emissions are going up globally, carbon emissions went up in the USA, slightly different political environments won't change the reality that the vast majority of people, societies, and companies have done far less than they need to already. We can't fool ourselves into thinking a democratic presidential win in 2020 will stop this crisis, it simply won't be enough by any rational view of the emissions already out and coming out every day. Even the favorite policy of democrats/progressives, the carbon tax, got voted down in multiple progressive-state reforanda. In summary, it feels good to point the finger of blame at the current political regime, but the reality is very little is being done anywhere except for pockets of hope like Norway, California, Iceland, Hawaii, which are NOT enough to balance out historical emissions and rising emissions in China, India, etc.

EGreg 8y ago

Tigers are nearly extinct. People don’t care.

mrob 8y ago
I wouldn't have any problem with tigers going extinct in the wild. From Wikipedia: "The most comprehensive study of deaths due to tiger attacks estimates that at least 373,000 people died due to tiger attacks between 1800 and 2009, the majority of these attacks occurring in South and Southeast Asia.[1] Over the last five centuries, an estimated 1 million people have been eaten by tigers.[2]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_attack
- vixen99 8y ago
  No problem at all! So put tigers at the top of your list and work slowly but surely down the the list of 'nasty' animals and plants. Doubtless we can eliminate the whole damn lot if we really try. You'll be a hero! Or maybe not.
  - mrob 8y ago
    I'd put malaria carrying mosquitoes at the top of the list, not tigers. The concept of a tiger is an important part of human culture, and it would be a pity if nobody could see a real one, but they breed in captivity, so people can see them in zoos. It's easy to romanticize the idea of "wild tigers" when they live far from you, and you're at no risk of one eating you or your livestock. Humans killed most wild tigers for good reason.
    - Tushon 8y ago
      Would you say the same thing about wolves, re the wolves returning to Yellowstone? https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wolf-reintroduction-changes-ecosystem https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wolf-reintroduc...
      - 8y ago

0xBA5ED 8y ago

Something like a sudden coffee shortage would get people involved for sure.