6 ms·

So doesn't Alexa already not record until you say the trigger word? If we don't trust that that is the case, then sure this device covers that, but it doesn't c

by goda90 8y ago

So doesn't Alexa already not record until you say the trigger word? If we don't trust that that is the case, then sure this device covers that, but it doesn't change the fact that they are still collecting data on every command you issue to the device.

Cthulhu_ 8y ago
True, but hopefully that's banal things like "play Despacito" or "What's 2 + 2", not "Please add 'rending me in the gobberwarts with a blurglecruncheon' to my depraved kinks list" or "Set my root password to 'secret123'" or "How do I build a nuke in my basement off of stuff I can order from Amazon".
- komali2 8y ago
  Whenever I find a stray Alexa or Google home at a friend's place I ask it how to import cocaine or where I can buy uranium. So far nothing's happened...
  - creeble 8y ago
    Nice friend! Do you search porn on their 'stray' computer while you're at it?
    - komali2 8y ago
      We do indeed throw horse porn into eachothers' search history. I sense your sarcasm - perhaps my friends and I have a different group culture than yours do?
  - tzs 8y ago
    You can by uranium from Amazon [1]. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM
ninju 8y ago
The microphone on the Alexa needs to be constantly active so that it can hear its name (the trigger name). The point of this device is to defeat the microphone, by playing white noise. But yes this device does not address what data is captured after you have engaged your smart assistant (nor is trying to address that issue)
- Someone1234 8y ago
  The processing for the wake word is handling on the firmware. If you point Wireshark (or another network monitor) at a Google Home or Alexa device you can see that there isn't significant network activity while idle.
  - ninju 8y ago
    If they (the smart assistant makers) would promote the fact that their devices only go online after the trigger word is detected that would go far is assuaging people's fear of the always-on microphone
    - Someone1234 8y ago
      They have. The reality is that conspiracy theorists aren't interested in learning how things actually work, which is why they're conspiracy theorists. In reality your phone is a significantly bigger threat to privacy both in terms of normal day to day monitoring (e.g. location tracking) and even listening in (a closed source baseband that can communicate on a platform you cannot even monitor).
      - jethro_tell 8y ago
        what's crazy, is that one of the biggest leaks here is cell tower location tracking from triangulation. Like not the gps data that gets constantly sent to google/apple but the fact that there is a middle man that sells all that shit to whom ever. This has been a problem since before smart phones but it's mostly transparent to the user so people don't seem to be bothered by it. When people see the GPS is on all the time or can look up their location data off their phone, it feels uncomfortable, but then they make un-encrypted phone calls through ma bell and let their location get sold. People are really bad a privacy and key on these obvious, invasive feeling, technologies but then miss the bigger picture.
lotu 8y ago
That is correct! Google, Amazon, and Apple despite having vast resources don't have the ability/desire to pay for the bandwidth, storage, and processing needed to have 24/7 recording and analysis from every smart device, especially when you realize that includes cell phones. Also it is ironic because all modern cellphones have the whole smart speaker thing built into them but people aren't freaking out about that in the same way. (Probably because they haven't realized it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
- runeb 8y ago
  Couldn't the device use voice-to-text and upload the text, possibly tagged with which voice profile said what? The same goes for phones, obviously.
  - jdietrich 8y ago
    That would either increase the cost of the device or degrade the performance of the speech-to-text. In the case of your phone, you'd get about an hour of battery life. Reasonably accurate speech recognition requires several orders of magnitude more computation than wake word detection.
    - reaperducer 8y ago
      That would either increase the cost of the device On-chip speech-to-text has been around since the 80's. It's not expensive to implement, especially with modern manufacturing. or degrade the performance of the speech-to-text How accurate does it need to be? All the spy corporations need is a stream of keywords.
  - partiallypro 8y ago
    I was going to say this, the only real cost would be the cognitive service to transcribe, storing a text version would be nothing.
- ttul 8y ago
  This is similar to the issue of people being scared of radiation from cell towers but somehow not freaking out that they have a transmitter in their pocket that uses the same range of frequencies but at vastly higher power (due to the proximity).
mtgx 8y ago
Maybe, but the system is designed in such a way that a third-party could listen to the convos anyways, even if Amazon/Google choose not to do it (for fear of backlash, and no other reason): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/08/14/hackers-find-security-flaw-amazon-echo-speakers-could-let-anyone/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/08/14/hackers-fi... https://www.wired.com/2017/05/hundreds-apps-can-listen-beacons-cant-hear/ https://www.wired.com/2017/05/hundreds-apps-can-listen-beaco...

by goda90 8y ago

Cthulhu_ 8y ago

True, but hopefully that's banal things like "play Despacito" or "What's 2 + 2", not "Please add 'rending me in the gobberwarts with a blurglecruncheon' to my depraved kinks list" or "Set my root password to 'secret123'" or "How do I build a nuke in my basement off of stuff I can order from Amazon".

komali2 8y ago
Whenever I find a stray Alexa or Google home at a friend's place I ask it how to import cocaine or where I can buy uranium. So far nothing's happened...
- creeble 8y ago
  Nice friend! Do you search porn on their 'stray' computer while you're at it?
  - komali2 8y ago
    We do indeed throw horse porn into eachothers' search history. I sense your sarcasm - perhaps my friends and I have a different group culture than yours do?
- tzs 8y ago
  You can by uranium from Amazon [1]. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM

ninju 8y ago

The microphone on the Alexa needs to be constantly active so that it can hear its name (the trigger name). The point of this device is to defeat the microphone, by playing white noise. But yes this device does not address what data is captured after you have engaged your smart assistant (nor is trying to address that issue)

Someone1234 8y ago
The processing for the wake word is handling on the firmware. If you point Wireshark (or another network monitor) at a Google Home or Alexa device you can see that there isn't significant network activity while idle.
- ninju 8y ago
  If they (the smart assistant makers) would promote the fact that their devices only go online after the trigger word is detected that would go far is assuaging people's fear of the always-on microphone
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    They have. The reality is that conspiracy theorists aren't interested in learning how things actually work, which is why they're conspiracy theorists. In reality your phone is a significantly bigger threat to privacy both in terms of normal day to day monitoring (e.g. location tracking) and even listening in (a closed source baseband that can communicate on a platform you cannot even monitor).
    - jethro_tell 8y ago
      what's crazy, is that one of the biggest leaks here is cell tower location tracking from triangulation. Like not the gps data that gets constantly sent to google/apple but the fact that there is a middle man that sells all that shit to whom ever. This has been a problem since before smart phones but it's mostly transparent to the user so people don't seem to be bothered by it. When people see the GPS is on all the time or can look up their location data off their phone, it feels uncomfortable, but then they make un-encrypted phone calls through ma bell and let their location get sold. People are really bad a privacy and key on these obvious, invasive feeling, technologies but then miss the bigger picture.

lotu 8y ago

That is correct! Google, Amazon, and Apple despite having vast resources don't have the ability/desire to pay for the bandwidth, storage, and processing needed to have 24/7 recording and analysis from every smart device, especially when you realize that includes cell phones. Also it is ironic because all modern cellphones have the whole smart speaker thing built into them but people aren't freaking out about that in the same way. (Probably because they haven't realized it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

runeb 8y ago
Couldn't the device use voice-to-text and upload the text, possibly tagged with which voice profile said what? The same goes for phones, obviously.
- jdietrich 8y ago
  That would either increase the cost of the device or degrade the performance of the speech-to-text. In the case of your phone, you'd get about an hour of battery life. Reasonably accurate speech recognition requires several orders of magnitude more computation than wake word detection.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    That would either increase the cost of the device On-chip speech-to-text has been around since the 80's. It's not expensive to implement, especially with modern manufacturing. or degrade the performance of the speech-to-text How accurate does it need to be? All the spy corporations need is a stream of keywords.
- partiallypro 8y ago
  I was going to say this, the only real cost would be the cognitive service to transcribe, storing a text version would be nothing.
ttul 8y ago
This is similar to the issue of people being scared of radiation from cell towers but somehow not freaking out that they have a transmitter in their pocket that uses the same range of frequencies but at vastly higher power (due to the proximity).

mtgx 8y ago

Maybe, but the system is designed in such a way that a third-party could listen to the convos anyways, even if Amazon/Google choose not to do it (for fear of backlash, and no other reason): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/08/14/hackers-find-security-flaw-amazon-echo-speakers-could-let-anyone/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/08/14/hackers-fi... https://www.wired.com/2017/05/hundreds-apps-can-listen-beacons-cant-hear/ https://www.wired.com/2017/05/hundreds-apps-can-listen-beaco...