8 ms·

Wow. I couldn’t stand the first book of this series. Interminable, I never built any empathy for any of the characters. I’ve been told it gets better after the

Wow. I couldn’t stand the first book of this series. Interminable, I never built any empathy for any of the characters. I’ve been told it gets better after the first book, but why would I subject myself to another book after my experience of the first? Anyway, to each their own, but as a huge sci-fi fan, I generally love the Hugo winners and nominees. The Chinese sci-fi that’s been nominated has all left me cold.

dominicr 8y ago
Same for me. From reading only a few Chinese/Asian books I think the problem is that each culture has its own style of writing fiction and Chinese books tend to have a slower pace and more introspection. You also get that in some English language fiction, but not so much in sci-fi, so the average English culture sci-fi reader is going to going to get frustrated with Chinese language sci.fi.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  It's the same in films a lot of slower long shots.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    So just like US films -- including action films like Dirty Harry and co -- before Spielberg?
Jerry2 8y ago
>I’ve been told it gets better after the first book, but why would I subject myself to another book after my experience of the first? I was not a huge fan of the first book either but saw the potential. Second book, The Dark Forest, is the greatest of the three (IMO anyway). Third book is also amazing. Definitely 'endure' reading through the first one and then you'll be rewarded with 2nd and 3rd.
- stone-monkey 8y ago
  The second is my favorite by far as well, but I find it funny how it's described as amazing Sci-Fi when I have to describe the plot. Half the book is spoilers The result of granting a nerd all the resources of the Earth at his disposal. He promptly uses it to find the perfect waifu and seduces her in his idyllic European villa. That's not Sci-Fi; That's a power fantasy as old as time.
  - erinnh 8y ago
    You described like 90% of Chinese webnovels. I still read some of them from time to time, but theyre all basically the same. Interesting to see how that translates to actual hard-copy books as well.
    - the_af 8y ago
      What's a webnovel? Fanfiction? Or like an online Japanese visual novel?
      - throwanem 8y ago
        Guessing, but maybe an original novel published freely on the web? That’s what the name appears to imply.
        _0ffh 8y ago
        Yep, it's novels published online in a chapter by chapter format. You'll also find translations of some of them, but beware that some sites provide automatic translations, which are naturally a bit wonky. Here's an example site, specialized in the wuxia genre: https://www.wuxiaworld.com/ https://www.wuxiaworld.com/
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    May reflect on how different people read things differently. I agree that a lot of pages are spent on what you've just described, but to me it was a weird and minor plot point, and I never mention it because I don't see how it's worth mentioning. The game-theoretic aspects of the book, on the other hand, and the final comeback of aforementioned nerd, are something I like to point out when summarizing this book.
ceejayoz 8y ago
I had the same experience with the first book, and never proceeded further. I kinda wonder if it's a translation/cultural issue - the characters' decision making processes and the ways things were described felt very foreign to me.
- sfifs 8y ago
  Possibly cultural but the Dark Forest (second book) is definitely worth the read whatever your experience with the first book. It is quite remarkable the breadth of the ideas that were explored.
  - neuronexmachina 8y ago
    Yeah, it's become my currently-preferred explanation for the Fermi Paradox. https://bigthink.com/scotty-hendricks/the-dark-forest-theory-a-terrifying-explanation-of-why-we-havent-heard-from-aliens-yet https://bigthink.com/scotty-hendricks/the-dark-forest-theory...
    - simonh 8y ago
      My preferred theory at the moment is they all end up getting turned into paperclips.
    - Haga 8y ago
      My preferred idea is that the great paper clip maker gets bored and eventually gets high on simulations which - irony all turn into paperapoca clips in the end
  - dmix 8y ago
    > It is quite remarkable the breadth of the ideas that were explored. For example?
    - TeMPOraL 8y ago
      A solid, game-theoretic explanation for the Fermi paradox based on assumptions of no FTL and technological growth being sudden and rapid, both seemingly applicable to our universe.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
I found just the opposite. I thought the first book was OK, but definitely not great. I thought the second and third atrocious, and a couple of the least memorable books I've ever read. I didn't finish the third. I wouldn't had started it had I not bought the set. I couldn't understand the appeal or relate to them at all. That said, I'm glad they exist, it's refreshing after so much copy-cat blandness in today's publishing.
- hinkley 8y ago
  I wouldn't say attrocious but the third one isn't holding my attention. I don't want to know what happens next, I just want to know what happens at the end. Meanwhile, I'm really bummed that the last book of the Expanse got delayed 4 months. I don't know how they're going to wrap up the story line in only one more book.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    Maybe a tad harsh. Then again, that lack of memorability means my main memory of the series is the first had rough edges but enough potential to want to start the second, but I retain barely anything of the story. Mind, I'm getting rather jaded with many series and trilogies, though I also want to see how the Expanse finishes up. A trilogy seems to have become the current expectation (from publishers perhaps?) where too often just a book or two would fit the story much better.
  - hinkley 8y ago
    I’m now halfway through and the story introduces a lot of new information. Slow intros are dangerous for reader retention.
friendlybus 8y ago
>I never built any empathy for any of the characters. I have a guess that's why the Warcraft movie did so well in China. The characters are so thin, and life is cheap in that film.
gameswithgo 8y ago
this is fascinating, as I loved the first book and hated the 2nd. I felt the translator of the first book was better by a lot.
da_chicken 8y ago
> I couldn’t stand the first book of this series. Interminable, I never built any empathy for any of the characters. I didn't entirely have this problem (though it was more difficult), but I had a problem with some of the plot points. Namely, (minor spoiler) scientists killing themselves when science did something they couldn't explain. I just couldn't buy that people who dedicate their lives to discovery would do that. I mean, the double slit experiment didn't cause such problems. It was just too unbelievable to me.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  > Namely, (minor spoiler) scientists killing themselves when science did something they couldn't explain. This was more of "science turned into magic", experiments started to produce arbitrary nonsense, though I don't remember if they realized the cause at the time. That said, I found it weak and weird too; I'd expect those scientists to try much harder before giving up.
  - tabtab 8y ago
    Re: experiments started to produce arbitrary nonsense [leading to scientist suicides] That would normally stimulate scientists into trying to find the pattern of "arbitrary". If it's completely random, that's a discovery in itself. If it has a pattern, then the pattern becomes a subject of experiments and speculative models, even if "weird". It's roughly comparable to the observer seemingly affecting the results of quantum experiments. Scientists rarely quit or get bored just because they have no clear-cut explanation. Most of them like puzzles, even tricky ones more. Maybe the culture in China is different and perhaps filters out the genuinely curious for those who produce definitive results? I'm only asking, not claiming.
  - jandrese 8y ago
    All of human society is treated pretty poorly in those books. People make fundamental society level decisions once and never ever re-examine those decisions, even when the circumstances are wildly different. For the most part everybody who isn't a named character is a total sheep and a total idiot. Many of the name characters (even the protagonist in some cases) aren't much better.
FeloniousHam 8y ago
I'm a third through Death's End, but I had a similar experience connecting with the characters. I had a hard time keeping the Chinese names straight (to the point of confusing gender), but even when that wasn't an issue, I still just wasn't invested in them personally (Da Shi is one exception). It's probably my lack of familiarity with Chinese cultural, but sci-fi generally often disappoints in the character development department. That said, I thought the story was fantastic, huge, and believable through details. I loved the Cultural Revolution backdrop in the first book, the second book was more action packed than the first.

dominicr 8y ago

Same for me. From reading only a few Chinese/Asian books I think the problem is that each culture has its own style of writing fiction and Chinese books tend to have a slower pace and more introspection. You also get that in some English language fiction, but not so much in sci-fi, so the average English culture sci-fi reader is going to going to get frustrated with Chinese language sci.fi.

C1sc0cat 8y ago
It's the same in films a lot of slower long shots.
- coldtea 8y ago
  So just like US films -- including action films like Dirty Harry and co -- before Spielberg?

Jerry2 8y ago

>I’ve been told it gets better after the first book, but why would I subject myself to another book after my experience of the first? I was not a huge fan of the first book either but saw the potential. Second book, The Dark Forest, is the greatest of the three (IMO anyway). Third book is also amazing. Definitely 'endure' reading through the first one and then you'll be rewarded with 2nd and 3rd.

stone-monkey 8y ago
The second is my favorite by far as well, but I find it funny how it's described as amazing Sci-Fi when I have to describe the plot. Half the book is spoilers The result of granting a nerd all the resources of the Earth at his disposal. He promptly uses it to find the perfect waifu and seduces her in his idyllic European villa. That's not Sci-Fi; That's a power fantasy as old as time.
- erinnh 8y ago
  You described like 90% of Chinese webnovels. I still read some of them from time to time, but theyre all basically the same. Interesting to see how that translates to actual hard-copy books as well.
  - the_af 8y ago
    What's a webnovel? Fanfiction? Or like an online Japanese visual novel?
    - throwanem 8y ago
      Guessing, but maybe an original novel published freely on the web? That’s what the name appears to imply.
      - _0ffh 8y ago
        Yep, it's novels published online in a chapter by chapter format. You'll also find translations of some of them, but beware that some sites provide automatic translations, which are naturally a bit wonky. Here's an example site, specialized in the wuxia genre: https://www.wuxiaworld.com/ https://www.wuxiaworld.com/
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  May reflect on how different people read things differently. I agree that a lot of pages are spent on what you've just described, but to me it was a weird and minor plot point, and I never mention it because I don't see how it's worth mentioning. The game-theoretic aspects of the book, on the other hand, and the final comeback of aforementioned nerd, are something I like to point out when summarizing this book.

ceejayoz 8y ago

I had the same experience with the first book, and never proceeded further. I kinda wonder if it's a translation/cultural issue - the characters' decision making processes and the ways things were described felt very foreign to me.

sfifs 8y ago
Possibly cultural but the Dark Forest (second book) is definitely worth the read whatever your experience with the first book. It is quite remarkable the breadth of the ideas that were explored.
- neuronexmachina 8y ago
  Yeah, it's become my currently-preferred explanation for the Fermi Paradox. https://bigthink.com/scotty-hendricks/the-dark-forest-theory-a-terrifying-explanation-of-why-we-havent-heard-from-aliens-yet https://bigthink.com/scotty-hendricks/the-dark-forest-theory...
  - simonh 8y ago
    My preferred theory at the moment is they all end up getting turned into paperclips.
  - Haga 8y ago
    My preferred idea is that the great paper clip maker gets bored and eventually gets high on simulations which - irony all turn into paperapoca clips in the end
- dmix 8y ago
  > It is quite remarkable the breadth of the ideas that were explored. For example?
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    A solid, game-theoretic explanation for the Fermi paradox based on assumptions of no FTL and technological growth being sudden and rapid, both seemingly applicable to our universe.

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

I found just the opposite. I thought the first book was OK, but definitely not great. I thought the second and third atrocious, and a couple of the least memorable books I've ever read. I didn't finish the third. I wouldn't had started it had I not bought the set. I couldn't understand the appeal or relate to them at all. That said, I'm glad they exist, it's refreshing after so much copy-cat blandness in today's publishing.

hinkley 8y ago
I wouldn't say attrocious but the third one isn't holding my attention. I don't want to know what happens next, I just want to know what happens at the end. Meanwhile, I'm really bummed that the last book of the Expanse got delayed 4 months. I don't know how they're going to wrap up the story line in only one more book.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  Maybe a tad harsh. Then again, that lack of memorability means my main memory of the series is the first had rough edges but enough potential to want to start the second, but I retain barely anything of the story. Mind, I'm getting rather jaded with many series and trilogies, though I also want to see how the Expanse finishes up. A trilogy seems to have become the current expectation (from publishers perhaps?) where too often just a book or two would fit the story much better.
- hinkley 8y ago
  I’m now halfway through and the story introduces a lot of new information. Slow intros are dangerous for reader retention.

friendlybus 8y ago

>I never built any empathy for any of the characters. I have a guess that's why the Warcraft movie did so well in China. The characters are so thin, and life is cheap in that film.

gameswithgo 8y ago

this is fascinating, as I loved the first book and hated the 2nd. I felt the translator of the first book was better by a lot.

da_chicken 8y ago

> I couldn’t stand the first book of this series. Interminable, I never built any empathy for any of the characters. I didn't entirely have this problem (though it was more difficult), but I had a problem with some of the plot points. Namely, (minor spoiler) scientists killing themselves when science did something they couldn't explain. I just couldn't buy that people who dedicate their lives to discovery would do that. I mean, the double slit experiment didn't cause such problems. It was just too unbelievable to me.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
> Namely, (minor spoiler) scientists killing themselves when science did something they couldn't explain. This was more of "science turned into magic", experiments started to produce arbitrary nonsense, though I don't remember if they realized the cause at the time. That said, I found it weak and weird too; I'd expect those scientists to try much harder before giving up.
- tabtab 8y ago
  Re: experiments started to produce arbitrary nonsense [leading to scientist suicides] That would normally stimulate scientists into trying to find the pattern of "arbitrary". If it's completely random, that's a discovery in itself. If it has a pattern, then the pattern becomes a subject of experiments and speculative models, even if "weird". It's roughly comparable to the observer seemingly affecting the results of quantum experiments. Scientists rarely quit or get bored just because they have no clear-cut explanation. Most of them like puzzles, even tricky ones more. Maybe the culture in China is different and perhaps filters out the genuinely curious for those who produce definitive results? I'm only asking, not claiming.
- jandrese 8y ago
  All of human society is treated pretty poorly in those books. People make fundamental society level decisions once and never ever re-examine those decisions, even when the circumstances are wildly different. For the most part everybody who isn't a named character is a total sheep and a total idiot. Many of the name characters (even the protagonist in some cases) aren't much better.

FeloniousHam 8y ago

I'm a third through Death's End, but I had a similar experience connecting with the characters. I had a hard time keeping the Chinese names straight (to the point of confusing gender), but even when that wasn't an issue, I still just wasn't invested in them personally (Da Shi is one exception). It's probably my lack of familiarity with Chinese cultural, but sci-fi generally often disappoints in the character development department. That said, I thought the story was fantastic, huge, and believable through details. I loved the Cultural Revolution backdrop in the first book, the second book was more action packed than the first.