5 ms·

It does not make sense that this person is attempting to run a reasonably priced restaurant and has FOH staff. SF needs to adopt more Japanese style ordering m

It does not make sense that this person is attempting to run a reasonably priced restaurant and has FOH staff. SF needs to adopt more Japanese style ordering machines. You choose and pay up front. When you are done you just leave. It's beautiful.

Marsymars 8y ago
> SF needs to adopt more Japanese style ordering machines. You choose and pay up front. When you are done you just leave. It's beautiful. I feel like North American restaurants are only willing to implement these with awful touchscreen UX, like the McDonald's touchscreen displays.
- mushufasa 8y ago
  That may be due to capex. McDonalds can invest in a ordering system while a mom-and-pop can't front capital for some sort of ticketing machine. I don't know how the economics work out in Japan. I'm sure a large part is cultural and shared knowledge. Maybe there's an opportunity for vendors of Japanese ticketing machines to jump into the San Francisco market??
  - QML 8y ago
    You don’t even need an in house ordering machine; everyone has a smart phone so just make a mobile system or website. It’d be easier if there was an aggregator like UberEats but for dine-in.
    - Thriptic 8y ago
      Iirc this is done in China with Wechat
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  I've found the McD's self-order UX pretty good. What's bad about it (as someone that hasn't used any other restaurant's self-order). It's the supermarket self-checkout UX horrible -> I'm automatically treated as a criminal because I can't checkout the next item before bagging the first. I have two hands darnit!
  - brianpgordon 8y ago
    It seems to run at around 10 frames per second and take a thousand milliseconds to respond to input. It also takes way too many taps to add an item to an order, which makes the input delay especially painful.
  - Marsymars 8y ago
    > I've found the McD's self-order UX pretty good. What's bad about it (as someone that hasn't used any other restaurant's self-order). My annoyances are particularly as compared to Japanese-style ordering machines, which in my experience are simple, reliable, fast, and easy to use. My complaints, off the top of my head: * Responsiveness to touch feels about a decade behind consumer capacitive touch displays. * Gratuitous animations are slow. * For a simple order where you know exactly what you want, there are far too many steps. (IIRC, for a black coffee, the button tapping flow goes something like this: English -> Hot Beverages -> Coffee -> Small -> Add to Cart -> Checkout -> Paying with card -> Paying with Bank card.) And you have to deal with the slow/bad touch response and animations for every one of these screens. * There's no way to avoid the machine spitting out a BPA-covered thermal paper receipt. (Other than the receipt dispensation being out of order, which happens pretty frequently.) > It's the supermarket self-checkout UX horrible Oh, we have our own egregious example of that up in Canada, where the largest grocery chain in the country got rid of most of the text on self-checkouts in favour of just icons: https://www.blogto.com/tech/2018/05/loblaws-self-checkout-system-toronto/ https://www.blogto.com/tech/2018/05/loblaws-self-checkout-sy...
  - TheLuddite 8y ago
    Isn't the check barcode -> put on the tray -> check new barcode again a way to stop double checking the same item, if someone is too clumsy?
    - Scoundreller 8y ago
      It does have that effect, but that's just an aspect of the default-criminality and UX fail: there's no UNDO.
    - prewett 8y ago
mushufasa 8y ago
Does anyone know how much cost would that reduce? You still need to bus tables, and now you need to manage a ticketing system + machinery, which inevitably breaks. Unless it's bar seating area, or you have a sushi-style conveyor belt, you'll still need staff to bring food to tables. Personally, I prefer the ticketing/ordering machine. Katz's Deli in NYC famously uses a ticketing system.
- bradleyjg 8y ago
  And Alinea sells tickets like a ballgame. When you are at that level you can do whatever you want, but most restaurateurs don't have that flexibility.
chrischen 8y ago
Many ramen restaurants will have 3 people working but maybe 15-20 seats. I've also seen sit down restaurants with 1 waiter doing 2 floors by a combination of self-service and automated ordering. SF needs to adopt more Japanese style ordering machines, density, public transit...
- ams6110 8y ago
  I refuse to use automated ordering. If I'm at a restaurant I want to be served by a person.
  - gamma-male 8y ago
    Why?
  - iso1337 8y ago
    Okay by me as long as you’re willing to pay more.
tokyodude 8y ago
You're basically talking about fast food places though not "restaurants". Yes, Ramen is considered fast food in Japan even if some of it is amazing. Also curry rice and most other things that are served in places that use those machines. Sure, a few places that have those machines have tables but it's still a different vibe from a restaurant. The bigger issue with those particular machines is they aren't compatible with western or in particular USA culture. Japanese generally don't ask for exceptions. Westerners often ask for tons of exceptions and substitutions either for medical reasons, religion reasons, personal convictions, or preference.
- taurath 8y ago
  I think in the tech capital, sitting around waiting for someone to seat you, come by and take your drink order, come by and take your food order, bring your food, and check on it (if lucky) is sort of... antiquated. It feels Victorian or something - good food is good food, regardless of who serves it. You’re paying to be pampered, but if the economics of being pampered don’t work then maybe it’s something people can give up? Go sit down, order from kiosk at table (or from kiosk up front). Panera for instance pretty much does this now.
  - general8bitso 8y ago
    Sheetz and McDonald’s also have food ordering kiosks, although neither serve upscale mediterannean food.
- kenneth 8y ago
  I think we would be a bit better off if US restaurants felt more comfortable telling customers to take a hike. I'm entirely ok with restaurants that have no vegan/gluten free/whatever options and refuse substitutions.
- gamma-male 8y ago
  No. These are restaurants i JApan. Not fast food places.
- damon_c 8y ago
jdeibele 8y ago
In Portland, not SF. Place I went to 2 months ago gave me a flag with a number on it. When my order was ready, they brought it out to me. I went there last night. Looked like there was one guy working by himself. He poured my drink and gave me a buzzer. When my food was ready, I went back to pick it up. It looked pretty clear that the owners figured the cost of the pager system was cheaper than having a second person working. This is at an indoor soccer place, where he could have somebody from the front desk help cover when he needs to use the restroom, etc. Cooking is mostly putting stuff into a deep fryer. At a different restaurant, the pager system still might mean going from cashier, cook, and runner to just cashier and cook.

Marsymars 8y ago

> SF needs to adopt more Japanese style ordering machines. You choose and pay up front. When you are done you just leave. It's beautiful. I feel like North American restaurants are only willing to implement these with awful touchscreen UX, like the McDonald's touchscreen displays.

mushufasa 8y ago
That may be due to capex. McDonalds can invest in a ordering system while a mom-and-pop can't front capital for some sort of ticketing machine. I don't know how the economics work out in Japan. I'm sure a large part is cultural and shared knowledge. Maybe there's an opportunity for vendors of Japanese ticketing machines to jump into the San Francisco market??
- QML 8y ago
  You don’t even need an in house ordering machine; everyone has a smart phone so just make a mobile system or website. It’d be easier if there was an aggregator like UberEats but for dine-in.
  - Thriptic 8y ago
    Iirc this is done in China with Wechat
Scoundreller 8y ago
I've found the McD's self-order UX pretty good. What's bad about it (as someone that hasn't used any other restaurant's self-order). It's the supermarket self-checkout UX horrible -> I'm automatically treated as a criminal because I can't checkout the next item before bagging the first. I have two hands darnit!
- brianpgordon 8y ago
  It seems to run at around 10 frames per second and take a thousand milliseconds to respond to input. It also takes way too many taps to add an item to an order, which makes the input delay especially painful.
- Marsymars 8y ago
  > I've found the McD's self-order UX pretty good. What's bad about it (as someone that hasn't used any other restaurant's self-order). My annoyances are particularly as compared to Japanese-style ordering machines, which in my experience are simple, reliable, fast, and easy to use. My complaints, off the top of my head: * Responsiveness to touch feels about a decade behind consumer capacitive touch displays. * Gratuitous animations are slow. * For a simple order where you know exactly what you want, there are far too many steps. (IIRC, for a black coffee, the button tapping flow goes something like this: English -> Hot Beverages -> Coffee -> Small -> Add to Cart -> Checkout -> Paying with card -> Paying with Bank card.) And you have to deal with the slow/bad touch response and animations for every one of these screens. * There's no way to avoid the machine spitting out a BPA-covered thermal paper receipt. (Other than the receipt dispensation being out of order, which happens pretty frequently.) > It's the supermarket self-checkout UX horrible Oh, we have our own egregious example of that up in Canada, where the largest grocery chain in the country got rid of most of the text on self-checkouts in favour of just icons: https://www.blogto.com/tech/2018/05/loblaws-self-checkout-system-toronto/ https://www.blogto.com/tech/2018/05/loblaws-self-checkout-sy...
- TheLuddite 8y ago
  Isn't the check barcode -> put on the tray -> check new barcode again a way to stop double checking the same item, if someone is too clumsy?
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    It does have that effect, but that's just an aspect of the default-criminality and UX fail: there's no UNDO.
  - prewett 8y ago

mushufasa 8y ago

Does anyone know how much cost would that reduce? You still need to bus tables, and now you need to manage a ticketing system + machinery, which inevitably breaks. Unless it's bar seating area, or you have a sushi-style conveyor belt, you'll still need staff to bring food to tables. Personally, I prefer the ticketing/ordering machine. Katz's Deli in NYC famously uses a ticketing system.

bradleyjg 8y ago
And Alinea sells tickets like a ballgame. When you are at that level you can do whatever you want, but most restaurateurs don't have that flexibility.

chrischen 8y ago

Many ramen restaurants will have 3 people working but maybe 15-20 seats. I've also seen sit down restaurants with 1 waiter doing 2 floors by a combination of self-service and automated ordering. SF needs to adopt more Japanese style ordering machines, density, public transit...

ams6110 8y ago
I refuse to use automated ordering. If I'm at a restaurant I want to be served by a person.
- gamma-male 8y ago
  Why?
- iso1337 8y ago
  Okay by me as long as you’re willing to pay more.

tokyodude 8y ago

You're basically talking about fast food places though not "restaurants". Yes, Ramen is considered fast food in Japan even if some of it is amazing. Also curry rice and most other things that are served in places that use those machines. Sure, a few places that have those machines have tables but it's still a different vibe from a restaurant. The bigger issue with those particular machines is they aren't compatible with western or in particular USA culture. Japanese generally don't ask for exceptions. Westerners often ask for tons of exceptions and substitutions either for medical reasons, religion reasons, personal convictions, or preference.

taurath 8y ago
I think in the tech capital, sitting around waiting for someone to seat you, come by and take your drink order, come by and take your food order, bring your food, and check on it (if lucky) is sort of... antiquated. It feels Victorian or something - good food is good food, regardless of who serves it. You’re paying to be pampered, but if the economics of being pampered don’t work then maybe it’s something people can give up? Go sit down, order from kiosk at table (or from kiosk up front). Panera for instance pretty much does this now.
- general8bitso 8y ago
  Sheetz and McDonald’s also have food ordering kiosks, although neither serve upscale mediterannean food.
kenneth 8y ago
I think we would be a bit better off if US restaurants felt more comfortable telling customers to take a hike. I'm entirely ok with restaurants that have no vegan/gluten free/whatever options and refuse substitutions.
gamma-male 8y ago
No. These are restaurants i JApan. Not fast food places.
damon_c 8y ago

jdeibele 8y ago

In Portland, not SF. Place I went to 2 months ago gave me a flag with a number on it. When my order was ready, they brought it out to me. I went there last night. Looked like there was one guy working by himself. He poured my drink and gave me a buzzer. When my food was ready, I went back to pick it up. It looked pretty clear that the owners figured the cost of the pager system was cheaper than having a second person working. This is at an indoor soccer place, where he could have somebody from the front desk help cover when he needs to use the restroom, etc. Cooking is mostly putting stuff into a deep fryer. At a different restaurant, the pager system still might mean going from cashier, cook, and runner to just cashier and cook.