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I can tell you why the whole Service Charge Inclusive irritates customers. Its false advertising. You are increasing the cost of the meal but not reflecting i

I can tell you why the whole Service Charge Inclusive irritates customers. Its false advertising. You are increasing the cost of the meal but not reflecting it on the menu. People find it dishonest like every other time in our lives where we are told a price, but then we get hit with a fee. Ask bank customers about it. Just be honest, the meal needs to cost more because the cost of production is more.

terandle 8y ago
I’m all in favor of abolishing tipping culture from the US but that’s not something you can expect a single restaurant to accomplish on their own. Given the reality of US culture I think this is a good compromise for now. It’s much more honest then pretending that the restaurant isn’t expecting a 20% tip on every order.
- protomyth 8y ago
  If you expect a mandatory fee and its not on the item's price, then its dishonest. Sales tax in the US is bad enough, but at least we all know about it and its the government. If they want to break out the "labor" cost on the menu like auto folks do, then fine, but this fee crap is just plain irritating.
  - rectang 8y ago
    Well, you can rage against it. You'll be joined by all the people who never want tipping to end because they're intoxicated by the feeling of power they hold over waitstaff as they decide how much to tip.
    - protomyth 8y ago
      Oh give me a break. If you need to charge the money, then you need to be like every other business and charge the money. In fact, they are charging the money, they are just throwing it on at the end as a fee. Businesses who do that are dishonest.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    It's dishonest, but in my eyes it's less dishonest than how tipping works as a socially-mandatory fee. So I welcome it as a path to improvement. Maybe some day we'll get it and sales tax to be part of the list price. But that will probably take legal force.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    I will note that a service charge on the menu is actually pretty common in a lot of places in Europe. Not saying it’s good or bad but it’s not something a few places in the US have dreamed up.
  - gamma-male 8y ago
    Most engineers in the bay area don't tip anymore.
    - linksnapzz 8y ago
      I'm sure this has done wonders for the degree of warm feelings the SF service-sector has had in the past for techies...I'd just tell everyone I worked as a landscaper.
      - gamma-male 8y ago
        Why would you care? Waiters don't expect tipping as much as in the rest of the country.
        linksnapzz 8y ago
        Hopefully, that'd be because the majority of restaurants are including a service charge with every meal, and not because the waiters have become inured to their techie clientele being chiselling niggardly prats. In circles I move in, being a bad tipper is right up there with shoplifting, dog-kicking or vandalism as a moral failing, and how one treats service employees a touchstone of one's character.
        gamma-male 8y ago
        You should change friends. People shouldn't decide what you do with your money.
- bradleyjg 8y ago
  I'd like to get rid of tipping too, and I'm inclined to agree with you that service charge included (suitably noticed) is not a terrible intermediate to get there. However, that said, restaurateurs need to realize that it changes the business model. Their waiters are no longer de facto independent contractors that have aligned incentives. Instead they are regular wage earning employees that need more management attention. It's fairly easy to see the impact if you go to a restaurant with a service included threshold (e.g. party of six) and try it both ways.
- gamma-male 8y ago
  I know a large group of people who have stopped tipping in SF. I'm the same. 0$ tip if it's not included.
kenneth 8y ago
Mensho Tokyo is a ramen place I frequent regularly in SF and that has abolished tips. Every time I go, it's a pleasant surprise and I leave feeling happy about it. I can't recall right now if the prices on the menu are inclusive of the automatic service charge or not… but that's kind of the point. All I'm left with is a positive impression that this place is better than the norm. What I remember is at the end of the meal, I am told by staff that a tip isn't necessary, that it's already included in the service. Compare this to the way many people handle this: they include a mandatory service charge, or worse, a "healthy SF tax," all the while still happily soliciting further tips. It feels like a money-grab. At the end of the day, it's all about execution, and unless you're able to fully commit to abolishing tips, don't bother trying. The "healthy SF" 4% mandate is especially egregious. It's simply a common way for restaurants to falsely advertise prices. When I see it, I'm left with a strongly negative impression, and I tip significantly less as a result.
- gamma-male 8y ago
  There is a list of restaurant without tips. Zazie is one of them.
- gamma-male 8y ago
  I've personally stopped giving tips in every restaurants not including them.
  - brianpgordon 8y ago
    This is ridiculous and incredibly unfair to the service workers. You're not sticking it to restaurant owners by refusing to tip, you're just being an asshole.
    - gamma-male 8y ago
      How? It is optional and plenty of other people are not tipping. I think you're being an idiot for throwing your money away if you tip because you feel forced to. If you tip because you appreciated the service then it's different.
eigenvector 8y ago
On principle I agree with you. I'd be perfectly happy walking into a restaurant that raised prices by 20% across the board and put a note on the menu saying "tipping not expected - our prices account for service." The problem is that every actor - from the diner to the server - is so used to the tipping system. Diners won't factor in the fact that they don't have to tip, because they will probably still want to tip (as mentioned in the article, a lot of people like the feeling of control tipping gives them). Servers won't like it because unlike a service charge or tip, that 20% baked in isn't only for them and they will feel like the owner is shorting them compared to tips (even if they aren't). Path dependence is hard. I don't know how to fix this situation.

terandle 8y ago

I’m all in favor of abolishing tipping culture from the US but that’s not something you can expect a single restaurant to accomplish on their own. Given the reality of US culture I think this is a good compromise for now. It’s much more honest then pretending that the restaurant isn’t expecting a 20% tip on every order.

protomyth 8y ago
If you expect a mandatory fee and its not on the item's price, then its dishonest. Sales tax in the US is bad enough, but at least we all know about it and its the government. If they want to break out the "labor" cost on the menu like auto folks do, then fine, but this fee crap is just plain irritating.
- rectang 8y ago
  Well, you can rage against it. You'll be joined by all the people who never want tipping to end because they're intoxicated by the feeling of power they hold over waitstaff as they decide how much to tip.
  - protomyth 8y ago
    Oh give me a break. If you need to charge the money, then you need to be like every other business and charge the money. In fact, they are charging the money, they are just throwing it on at the end as a fee. Businesses who do that are dishonest.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  It's dishonest, but in my eyes it's less dishonest than how tipping works as a socially-mandatory fee. So I welcome it as a path to improvement. Maybe some day we'll get it and sales tax to be part of the list price. But that will probably take legal force.
- ghaff 8y ago
  I will note that a service charge on the menu is actually pretty common in a lot of places in Europe. Not saying it’s good or bad but it’s not something a few places in the US have dreamed up.
- gamma-male 8y ago
  Most engineers in the bay area don't tip anymore.
  - linksnapzz 8y ago
    I'm sure this has done wonders for the degree of warm feelings the SF service-sector has had in the past for techies...I'd just tell everyone I worked as a landscaper.
    - gamma-male 8y ago
      Why would you care? Waiters don't expect tipping as much as in the rest of the country.
      - linksnapzz 8y ago
        Hopefully, that'd be because the majority of restaurants are including a service charge with every meal, and not because the waiters have become inured to their techie clientele being chiselling niggardly prats. In circles I move in, being a bad tipper is right up there with shoplifting, dog-kicking or vandalism as a moral failing, and how one treats service employees a touchstone of one's character.
        gamma-male 8y ago
        You should change friends. People shouldn't decide what you do with your money.
bradleyjg 8y ago
I'd like to get rid of tipping too, and I'm inclined to agree with you that service charge included (suitably noticed) is not a terrible intermediate to get there. However, that said, restaurateurs need to realize that it changes the business model. Their waiters are no longer de facto independent contractors that have aligned incentives. Instead they are regular wage earning employees that need more management attention. It's fairly easy to see the impact if you go to a restaurant with a service included threshold (e.g. party of six) and try it both ways.
gamma-male 8y ago
I know a large group of people who have stopped tipping in SF. I'm the same. 0$ tip if it's not included.

kenneth 8y ago

Mensho Tokyo is a ramen place I frequent regularly in SF and that has abolished tips. Every time I go, it's a pleasant surprise and I leave feeling happy about it. I can't recall right now if the prices on the menu are inclusive of the automatic service charge or not… but that's kind of the point. All I'm left with is a positive impression that this place is better than the norm. What I remember is at the end of the meal, I am told by staff that a tip isn't necessary, that it's already included in the service. Compare this to the way many people handle this: they include a mandatory service charge, or worse, a "healthy SF tax," all the while still happily soliciting further tips. It feels like a money-grab. At the end of the day, it's all about execution, and unless you're able to fully commit to abolishing tips, don't bother trying. The "healthy SF" 4% mandate is especially egregious. It's simply a common way for restaurants to falsely advertise prices. When I see it, I'm left with a strongly negative impression, and I tip significantly less as a result.

gamma-male 8y ago
There is a list of restaurant without tips. Zazie is one of them.
gamma-male 8y ago
I've personally stopped giving tips in every restaurants not including them.
- brianpgordon 8y ago
  This is ridiculous and incredibly unfair to the service workers. You're not sticking it to restaurant owners by refusing to tip, you're just being an asshole.
  - gamma-male 8y ago
    How? It is optional and plenty of other people are not tipping. I think you're being an idiot for throwing your money away if you tip because you feel forced to. If you tip because you appreciated the service then it's different.

eigenvector 8y ago

On principle I agree with you. I'd be perfectly happy walking into a restaurant that raised prices by 20% across the board and put a note on the menu saying "tipping not expected - our prices account for service." The problem is that every actor - from the diner to the server - is so used to the tipping system. Diners won't factor in the fact that they don't have to tip, because they will probably still want to tip (as mentioned in the article, a lot of people like the feeling of control tipping gives them). Servers won't like it because unlike a service charge or tip, that 20% baked in isn't only for them and they will feel like the owner is shorting them compared to tips (even if they aren't). Path dependence is hard. I don't know how to fix this situation.