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Airlander 10: World's longest aircraft gets full-production go-ahead
- aldoushuxley001 8y agoCan we still call them Zeppelin's tho? This is literally a childhood dream of mine coming true. Amazing.
- SteveNuts 8y agoI've always been partial to "dirigible".
- vostok 8y agoI have very little difficulty with English, but this word is hard to pronounce in English for me. The funny thing is that it's very easy for me to pronounce in other languages, including my native language.
- tim333 8y agoApparently "not a true zeppelin because it lacks a completely rigid frame." A prior cnet article has better photos https://www.cnet.com/news/airlander-10-airship-interiors-inflight-luxury/ https://www.cnet.com/news/airlander-10-airship-interiors-inf...
- CydeWeys 8y agoWhy is this an important distinction though? Zeppelins still need to be full anyway in order to float, so why does it matter that they keep their shape when not full?
- alkonaut 8y agoAll Zeppelins are airships but not all airships are zeppelins. Iirc the term ”Zeppelin” is used for rigid-frame airships only. The term usually used for non-rigid ships is ”blimp”. So aside from the fact that this is a hybrid that needs power to lift, it’s also a Blimp rather than a Zeppelin.
- chrisper 8y agoIs your dream flying In a Zeppelin? You could do that In Germany
- JshWright 8y agoIt's different from a zeppelin in a couple ways. First, its not totally rigid (it relies on pressure to keep it's shape), and it is negatively buoyant in the atmosphere (it relies partially on lift generated by the shape of the aircraft to stay up).
- i_am_proteus 8y agoA heavier-than-air dirigible? As Keith Moon once said about the New Yardbirds, that'll probably go over like a lead zeppelin.
- anamexis 8y agoRe: negatively buoyant, that might not be true. Their FAQ states: > Being Lighter-Than-Air, the characteristics of the Airlander bring many safety benefits. It has four engines and can fly on just one. Even if all engines fail, which is extremely unlikely, it can still float or glide under pilot control.
- jessriedel 8y agoLittle more detail: > As a unique part of the design, 60% of the lift is produced aerostatically by being Lighter-Than-Air and a further 40% lift is generated aerodynamically by having a wing-shaped hull. The engines can be rotated to provide an additional 25% of thrust up or down, to help landing, take-off and hover.
- JshWright 8y agoIt may technically be "lighter than air" when only considering the dry mass (I'm not sure about that), but they're definitely relying on aerodynamic lift in normal usage (so, it will glide in the same way a heavier than air plane can glide)
- walshemj 8y agoAnd I believe zeppelin is still trademarked and still exists as a company in germany.
- masklinn 8y agoA company was operating sightseeing tours in Zepellin NT crafts in California between 2008 and 2012…
- dbcurtis 8y agoI remember seeing them go overhead once in a while. I hadn’t realized they ceased operations. Just a couple of days ago I saw a blimp overhead, I thought it was them, but it must have been the Goodyear blimp moving between football games. I believe Goodyear uses Moffet Field as a staging stop on occasion.
- omnibrain 8y agoGoodyear bought 1 or 2 Zeppelin NT to replace their aging blimps. Edit: All their „blimps“ are Zeppelin NT now https://www.goodyearblimp.com/behind-the-scenes/current-blimps.html https://www.goodyearblimp.com/behind-the-scenes/current-blim... and they manufactured them by themselves with parts and know how from Germany.
- masklinn 8y ago> they manufactured them by themselves with parts and know how from Germany. They assembled the zeppelins in germany. Because it's pretty certainly simpler to ship the parts and a few engineers than to make the trip in assembled blimps.
- Stratoscope 8y agoAh yes, Airship Ventures. [1] I got to ride on one of their last Bay Area flights. It was one of the most fun things I've ever done. See [2] for photos. The lake with houses around it is Larry Ellison's home. Passenger boarding was interesting. The zeppelin is hovering when you board, so they don't have everyone get off before the new passengers get on. The zeppelin would float away! Instead, they swap passengers one by one to keep the weight stable. Once on board, the passengers are in the same cabin with the pilots, so we could talk with the pilots, see how they fly the airship, and ask for little sightseeing detours along the way. Deutsche Zeppelin Reederei still operates tours in southern Germany. [3] If you ever get a chance to ride on one, do it! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airship_Ventures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airship_Ventures [2] https://geary.smugmug.com/Flying/Airship-Ride/ https://geary.smugmug.com/Flying/Airship-Ride/ [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Zeppelin_Reederei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Zeppelin_Reederei
- andygates 8y agoLuftschiffbau Zeppelin GmbH might grumble.
- ChuckNorris89 8y agoI can already hear Hell March[1] playing. Kirov Reporting! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBOD8qeCBuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBOD8qeCBuc
- nerdwaller 8y agoHelium Mix Optimal! The original Red Alert was such a phenomenal video game.
- titanix2 8y agoEA announced at remastered version few months ago. I’m both excited and anxious about it.
- nerdwaller 8y agoYou may have just made my day! Link for those interested: https://m.ign.com/articles/2018/11/14/ea-announces-command-conquer-red-alert-remasters https://m.ign.com/articles/2018/11/14/ea-announces-command-c...
- mothsonasloth 8y agoHearing "Kirov reporting", still gives me the sweats. Time to add some AA to the build queue
- dogma1138 8y agoA single B2 bomber can carry about twice as many bombs as the maximum capacity of this blimp so this ain’t a Kirov for sure.
- zepearl 8y agoSmall Airlander Q&A: https://www.hybridairvehicles.com/downloads/download/Airlander%20Student%20Q&A%20Sheet.pdf https://www.hybridairvehicles.com/downloads/download/Airland...
- ToFab123 8y agoSo how long is the world's longest aircraft?
- neurotrace 8y agoThey really should have included it in TFA but I found this: > Another mishap befell the 92-metre-long (302ft)... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/worlds-biggest-aircraft-airlander-10-retired-from-service https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/worlds-biggest...
- cptskippy 8y agoThe BBC article isn't great and leaves you wondering why it was approved at all. The Guardian article is better but still isn't great imo. It's as if they're intentionally sowing seeds of unease about these types of ships even though this was just a test aircraft. > An eyewitness said the aircraft appeared to "break in two" after breaking its moorings and deflating... Why would they approve it after such a mishap one might wonder? Well the deflation was intentional and triggered by an automatic safety system as The Guardian article explains. > Another mishap befell the 92-metre-long (302ft), 44-metre-wide craft in 2017 when a woman was taken to hospital after its hull automatically deflated when the vessel came loose from its moorings. But it still frames it as a series of mishaps and injuries. Which I guess is great for page views but damages the reputation.
- wongarsu 8y agoFor comparison: the longest curently operating airplane is the Antonov An-225 Mriya with 84 m (275 ft) length [1]. The longest passenger airplane is the Airbus 380-800 at 72,30 m (237 ft). 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225_Mriya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225_Mriya 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A380 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A380
- billfruit 8y agoLongest passenger aircraft is 747-8 at 76.3m, as per its Wikipedia article.
- tyingq 8y ago"Cruise speed: 148 km/h (92 mph; 80 kn)" What's the market for this thing? Maybe short, over water trips? It would seem hard to compete with cars or trains once you factor in security screening time, etc.
- jupiter90000 8y ago'In July, it revealed it planned to offer "luxury expeditions" once all tests were successfully completed.'
- breischl 8y agoLooks like it's not focused on traditional passenger routes. Their Q&A (linked elsewhere in this thread) talks a lot about bringing cargo directly to where it's needed, with little/no infrastructure. So if you want to unload 10 tonnes in the middle of a primitive area, they can do that. Also 20-40% of airplane fuel consumption. Seems fairly niche, but potentially very useful when you need it.
- jarvuschris 8y ago> Seems fairly niche It's basically a container ship for land that doesn't need any crew If they bring it to market, it's not going to stay niche Edit: the smallest 10ft containers hold ~10 tons, so each ship is basically a flying small container. Still though. Also reasonable to assume bigger ships would come next
- Twirrim 8y ago20-40% of the fuel consumption of a similar cargo plane.... what does that work out to in comparison to, say, a container hauling truck? Are we likely to see vehicles like this (or larger) taking trucks off the road? If it's entirely autonomous, and thus able to operate 24x7 there's some strong advantages there, but fuel efficiency could seriously ding in to that.
- geezerjay 8y ago
- skybrian 8y agoThe article seems unclear on the order of events. What happened after the prototype crashed? Was there another prototype? What is "successful final testing?"
- KineticLensman 8y agoThe Guardian [0] suggests that Hybrid Air Vehicles (HAV) is not going to rebuild (repair?) the prototype that crashed but is now instead going into production. HAV themselves have more on the move to production at [1] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/worlds-biggest-aircraft-airlander-10-retired-from-service https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/worlds-biggest... [1] https://www.hybridairvehicles.com/news-and-media/news/hav-awarded-production-organisation-approval https://www.hybridairvehicles.com/news-and-media/news/hav-aw...
- flavor8 8y agoBBC articles are often terribly written. Maybe they sub out to a content farm.
- notatoad 8y agoThe timeline i understood from the article was testing was successful, and then after testing was completed the prototype crashed / failed.
- dis-sys 8y agowatched that video in the link, wondering why Airlander 10 is so noisy?
- ileri62 8y agoWasn't that rather the helicopter noise? Either way it was a stupid decision to include audio. Nearly blew my ears off
- fourier_mode 8y agoIndeed, it wasn't a good idea to release footage with unfiltered audio.
- agumonkey 8y agorelated, allegedly fully solar powered hot air balloon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdNuQv_LV5U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdNuQv_LV5U
- dogma1138 8y agoThe thing has a cargo capacity of 20,000lbs who is this for? Military? This thing can only carry 4 humvees at most and about 1/6th of a a main battle tank by weight. Civilian transport? 20,000 lbs is a lot if you need to resupply an Arctic research station manned by 3 people but not for anything at scale. Tourists? Maybe a novelty but you wouldn’t really need more than 1 or 2 of those. Edit: 1/6th instead of 1/3rd forgot that MBTs are 60,000kg not lbs.
- glup 8y agoSame thought here. An Mi-26 can easily do 50% more [1]. I thought the whole point of renewed interest in airships was their cargo carrying capacity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-26 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-26
- masklinn 8y ago> Same thought here. An Mi-26 can easily do 50% more [1]. But probably not at the same price per pound, or so would the expectation be. > I thought the whole point of renewed interest in airships was their cargo carrying capacity. A mix of cargo capacity and cost. And this model (or others being developed right now) are probably not the high-end of what they could theoretically do, they're around where they expect financial sense is for an unproven system, they need to get buy-in and sales.
- jessriedel 8y ago> not at the same price per pound, or so would the expectation be Exactly: > between 20% and 40% of the fuel consumption and operating costs of equivalent traditional aircraft > Minimal ground crew are required: two for an Airlander 10 and none for an Airlander 50. https://www.hybridairvehicles.com/downloads/download/Airlander%20Student%20Q&A%20Sheet.pdf https://www.hybridairvehicles.com/downloads/download/Airland...
- dogma1138 8y agoOperating costs are tricky, a helicopter with cargo lift capabilities can serve many more roles and is much more flexible which means that the total operating costs are spread across a multitude of mission profiles. Having a dedicated vessel that has rather limited use might have a much higher TCO since it will not replace traditional aircraft but rather supplement them.
- KineticLensman 8y agoPress release from HAV themselves at [0] [0] https://www.hybridairvehicles.com/news-and-media/news/hav-awarded-production-organisation-approval https://www.hybridairvehicles.com/news-and-media/news/hav-aw...
- dorfsmay 8y agoI find the article a bit "light" (pun totally intended!) on information. As usual, wikipedia saves the day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Air_Vehicles_HAV_304/Airlander_10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Air_Vehicles_HAV_304/Ai... Specifically, what I expected from the article: The original purpose was military: " programme was intended to demonstrate a medium-altitude long-endurance unmanned aerial vehicle capable of providing Intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance (ISTAR) support for ground troops." Length (to answer clickbatey title): 92 m Payload: 10 tons (10,000 Kg)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- p1necone 8y agoI know this isn't really adding anything of value but uhh... It looks like a butt.
- dragosmocrii 8y agoIn support of last comment, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Airlander_-_Mission_Module_Fitting.jpg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Airlander_-_Mission_Mod...
- kerng 8y agoThat it deflated, broke and crashed just a bit over a year during a test flight doesn't give me the confidence that I'd wanna fly in this thing. Conceptually this seems a lot easier and safer to build and operate compared to a let's say a Boeing, so crashes make me wonder about their quality assurance.
- Reason077 8y agoHopefully they’ve learnt from what went wrong and made improvements for the production model. A lot of Boeings crashed in the early days of jet aviation, too, but now they’re considered very safe.
- ReptileMan 8y agoAs the Lion Air crash showed too much safety can kill you.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y agoStrange interpretation, I think most saw it as inadequate training.
- Someone1234 8y agoBoeing didn't tell the airline or crew that they had added the new safety system and didn't provide training materials for it. The "most" you're referring to are people that didn't read any of the preliminary findings and jumped to conclusions the second they read Lion Air.
- jhayward 8y agoAre you referring to this event? I'd hardly call that a "broke and crash during test flight". "HAV suffered a setback last November, when the parked airship broke free of its mooring mast. An onboard safety system automatically ripped open the hull in order to deflate the aircraft, thus keeping it from drifting. It has since been determined that the mishap occurred due to an incorrectly-secured locking mechanism between the airship and the mast." [1][2] [1] https://newatlas.com/airlander-10-passenger-cabin/55515/ https://newatlas.com/airlander-10-passenger-cabin/55515/ [2] https://newatlas.com/airlander-10-incident/52254/ https://newatlas.com/airlander-10-incident/52254/
- thechao 8y agoAre there any hybrid hot airships? That is hot air dirigible hybrids? That’d really tickle my diesel- & steam- punk interests. Edit: they’re called “thermal airships”; Cameron Balloons sells them. Less lift than a helium balloon of the same size (by ~30%), but about 20x cheaper to fly. I really want one, now.
- TylerE 8y agoHit air is much less bouyant any than helium. So no.
- aeneasmackenzie 8y agoNot hybrids. You may be familiar with Cloud Nines, the observation that if you make it but enough a very small temperature difference will be enough to achieve lift for a very large vessel (i.e. more like kilometers). Very difficult to figure out the construction though.
- stcredzero 8y agoPerhaps the huge surface area could be turned to its advantage? If microwave rectennas could be incorporated into its upper surface, perhaps such a craft could be powered by beamed power from satellites? In the right climate, what about solar power? These would only be viable for operating in extremely remote areas where the logistics cost of moving fuel in becomes prohibitive. It's niche, but there is a market there.
- gerdesj 8y agoIt can stay in the air for five days already. Instead of beaming power a fast aircraft could overfly it and drop fuel onto it via a steerable parachute based drone.
- stcredzero 8y agoMy idea is to eliminate the physical logistics, not require fast aircraft logistics.
- Tade0 8y agoRegarding solar power it's currently hard to fulfill all of the requirements: - Monocrystalline solar panels would provide as much power as those engines when covering the craft's surface but they're too heavy to be put there. - Modern thin-film solar cells could be light enough, but would probably provide only enough power for cruising at low speed. I guess you could replace one of those engines with an electric motor, throw away 1/4 of the fuel tank and this way more or less break-even on weight saving a lot on fuel during the day.
- stcredzero 8y agoRegarding solar power it's currently hard to fulfill all of the requirements Which is why I mentioned beamed power. Perhaps thin-film solar panels could be used for range/endurance extension. Since these craft are more weight challenged than space challenged, perhaps hydrogen fuel cells could be used instead of batteries?
- philipkglass 8y ago
- fredgrott 8y agoThis is civilian surveillance given the low payloads just the right payload for electronic gear and a small staff to man it or even automate its flying as a drone say over London not all bad in terms it would be great for traffic control applications
- walshemj 8y agoGreat news after the crash last year - I currently work in Cardington and can see the sheds (never hangers) from work.
- buboard 8y agolooking forward to the voyages of the giant butt and the inevitable kardashian comparisons.
- jupiter90000 8y agoHere's an article from mid-2018 showing (mock?) images of the company's planned use of this as a "luxury airship" https://newatlas.com/airlander-10-passenger-cabin/55515/ https://newatlas.com/airlander-10-passenger-cabin/55515/
- rishabhd 8y agoLooks okay, but not sure about the use cases. Its slow and it's capacity advantage can be outmatched with numbers in existing platforms. A slow luxury cruise? Reconnaissance - but radar cross section would be too big. Am I missing something?
- IcePowder 8y agoLTA is fascinating to watch but prohibitively expensive to operate.
- JohnClark1337 8y agoIt's been almost 100 years, can we bring back the big zeppelins yet?