5 ms·

Burnout is your mind/body's way of telling you and/or signalling to others that you've been stuck on the wrong path for too long. Depression is a clinical cond

Burnout is your mind/body's way of telling you and/or signalling to others that you've been stuck on the wrong path for too long. Depression is a clinical condition that arises when your mind/brain is unable to cope with the experiences/environment it's been in for an extended period of time, and is a signal that a change is needed in the brain/mind (medication and/or therapy) or in the environment (changes to e.g., lifestyle, relationships, job, location) - and likely both. Laziness is a lack of motivation that could be caused by any number of things, but is generally a sign that your current life situation doesn't inspire you into positive action. But it could also be related to an undiagnosed mental and/or physiological illness that impedes your energy production/utilisation. Being in the wrong job is a common sentiment, and may or may not be a problem depending on how empowered someone is. An empowered person (someone with enough qualifications/experience/confidence/energy/etc) will negotiate better conditions for their current job or find a new job that they're better suited to. A disempowered person will stay in the job due to lack of other options, and after long enough may end up being affected by one or more of the first three conditions. Background: experienced it all over 15+ years and researched far and wide.

bergerjac 8y ago
Jobs are like clothes. There is no "wrong job". There are jobs which fit now, and all other jobs. A job may fit, then as we grow, we get new ones that fit better. I would say the stages are usually: #1: Grow out of the current job #2: Still working same hours, but tasks become boring, therefore instead of the job fueling us, it drains us... causing Burnout. #3: Then Laziness settles in, because putting energy into boring tasks only leads to Burnout. #4: Spiraling down the Laziness slide, into Depression. Simply, Depression is a loss of interest in activities once enjoyed. The antidote to Depression is doing... Doing new things we enjoy. Therefore, take up an entirely new, and different practice. Perhaps move up to management. Or go to a new place, around new people. TLDR: Do new.
- olivermarks 8y ago
  Couldn't agree more with this. The same issues occur with entrepreneurial relationships - I've worked in large companies with all of the above issues, and also started various ventures and been highly aware of shifting priorities and focuses that have led to burnout. This is more subtle but since you have to keep things moving forward can create greater personal risk
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- benj111 8y ago
  I don't agree with laziness leading to depression. Laziness stems from not caring, depression stems from the opposite. I think what you've labelled as laziness could better be labelled as something else. Apathy perhaps?
  - username90 8y ago
    The constant criticism lazy people often face can easily lead to depression.
    - benj111 8y ago
      That isn't what the parent seems to be suggesting.
      - username90 8y ago
        Ah, you are right! Sorry, I am too lazy to thoroughly read long comments...
- teunispeters 8y ago
  When you have lots of experience but a shortage of "credentials" and hostile employers telling you continuously you'd never be able to get work anywhere else... (I had this from several employers over 10 years .. with harsh gaps between involving things like homelessness) ... well, let's just say depression is inevitable. And being able to see new, a way out or anything else will likely require help from others. I got both help from others (churches (to oversimplify, there are multiple religious groups involved here) and more in my case - psych and medical was mostly unhelpful and/or toxic too - they believed the same lies the employers used!) and from friends and family ... and my life is a whole pile healthier and happier now. And if curious, no I don't attend any of the religious groups I visited during that period now. But I have a lot of respect for them now - well earned. And don't regret visiting any of them. And hopefully none regret my visiting them either too. People are people, and having healthy relationships means both parties should try to be healthy to one another. Yes, employers can be abusive too, with all the consequences of being in an abusive relationship. This can also result in depression and usually burnout too. Especially if one works to ridiculous levels trying to keep the abusive employer happy. (it's also sometimes really hard to see that it's abusive without either outside help, or long and far enough distance)
- blablabla123 8y ago
  I agree with #1, usually there is a good reason one starts with a certain job. For instance money or interesting problems. That in turn can fit into the current life situation, e.g. when expenses need to be done or the previous field got boring. I disagree though with laziness. IMHO it protects us from doing things that we don't like. People try to hack themselves to overcome it. That's actually dangerous.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
reasonablemann 8y ago
Fantastic answer because it highlights how these conditions can be overcome by changing your situation. Clinical methodology for treating depression in Sweden is to change the person's living / work situation as a first step before pursuing other treatments.
- endymi0n 8y ago
  Related: "If you’re unsure whether to quit your job or break up, you probably should" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17840275 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17840275 (prepare for cynical HN discussion at the top, but the article itself is pretty spot on)
FPGAhacker 8y ago
I think this is a good answer, but depression is a complicated beast. It would be difficult to give a comprehensive comment in depression, so I think you did fine, but I want to point out that it is difficult and complex, and as much as we understand about it, there is so much that is not understood. This [1] is a video of a Robert Sapolsky lecture on depression that gives a high level but comprehensive overview of the current (as of 2009) state of understanding depression, kinds of depression, the role of some neurotransmitters. This is a compassionate, technical, and broad overview. 1. https://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc https://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dabockster 8y ago
Jumping from this, a combination of any of the symptoms may indicate something much more severe with your mental health. You should see a doctor at that point. Source: Got diagnosed with ADHD after feeling burnout, depression, laziness, and imposter syndrome all at once.
protonimitate 8y ago
I like this summary, but disagree slightly with >Laziness is a lack of motivation that could be caused by any number of things, but is generally a sign that your current life situation doesn't inspire you into positive action. I see motivation/inspiration/laziness conflated a lot. IMO 'laziness' is just a lack of discipline. You can be disciplined and still accomplish things without motivation or inspiration. In fact, I would argue that if you wait until you are inspired/motivated to get things done, you will be on the less-productive side of the spectrum. Of course, it can be a huge challenge to stay disciplined when you are burnt out or depressed (or both). But, laziness is the difference between "I am depressed and don't feel like going to the gym" and "I am depressed and don't feel like going to the gym anyway, but I am still putting on my shoes and walking out the door".

bergerjac 8y ago

Jobs are like clothes. There is no "wrong job". There are jobs which fit now, and all other jobs. A job may fit, then as we grow, we get new ones that fit better. I would say the stages are usually: #1: Grow out of the current job #2: Still working same hours, but tasks become boring, therefore instead of the job fueling us, it drains us... causing Burnout. #3: Then Laziness settles in, because putting energy into boring tasks only leads to Burnout. #4: Spiraling down the Laziness slide, into Depression. Simply, Depression is a loss of interest in activities once enjoyed. The antidote to Depression is doing... Doing new things we enjoy. Therefore, take up an entirely new, and different practice. Perhaps move up to management. Or go to a new place, around new people. TLDR: Do new.

olivermarks 8y ago
Couldn't agree more with this. The same issues occur with entrepreneurial relationships - I've worked in large companies with all of the above issues, and also started various ventures and been highly aware of shifting priorities and focuses that have led to burnout. This is more subtle but since you have to keep things moving forward can create greater personal risk
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
benj111 8y ago
I don't agree with laziness leading to depression. Laziness stems from not caring, depression stems from the opposite. I think what you've labelled as laziness could better be labelled as something else. Apathy perhaps?
- username90 8y ago
  The constant criticism lazy people often face can easily lead to depression.
  - benj111 8y ago
    That isn't what the parent seems to be suggesting.
    - username90 8y ago
      Ah, you are right! Sorry, I am too lazy to thoroughly read long comments...
teunispeters 8y ago
When you have lots of experience but a shortage of "credentials" and hostile employers telling you continuously you'd never be able to get work anywhere else... (I had this from several employers over 10 years .. with harsh gaps between involving things like homelessness) ... well, let's just say depression is inevitable. And being able to see new, a way out or anything else will likely require help from others. I got both help from others (churches (to oversimplify, there are multiple religious groups involved here) and more in my case - psych and medical was mostly unhelpful and/or toxic too - they believed the same lies the employers used!) and from friends and family ... and my life is a whole pile healthier and happier now. And if curious, no I don't attend any of the religious groups I visited during that period now. But I have a lot of respect for them now - well earned. And don't regret visiting any of them. And hopefully none regret my visiting them either too. People are people, and having healthy relationships means both parties should try to be healthy to one another. Yes, employers can be abusive too, with all the consequences of being in an abusive relationship. This can also result in depression and usually burnout too. Especially if one works to ridiculous levels trying to keep the abusive employer happy. (it's also sometimes really hard to see that it's abusive without either outside help, or long and far enough distance)
blablabla123 8y ago
I agree with #1, usually there is a good reason one starts with a certain job. For instance money or interesting problems. That in turn can fit into the current life situation, e.g. when expenses need to be done or the previous field got boring. I disagree though with laziness. IMHO it protects us from doing things that we don't like. People try to hack themselves to overcome it. That's actually dangerous.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

reasonablemann 8y ago

Fantastic answer because it highlights how these conditions can be overcome by changing your situation. Clinical methodology for treating depression in Sweden is to change the person's living / work situation as a first step before pursuing other treatments.

endymi0n 8y ago
Related: "If you’re unsure whether to quit your job or break up, you probably should" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17840275 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17840275 (prepare for cynical HN discussion at the top, but the article itself is pretty spot on)

FPGAhacker 8y ago

I think this is a good answer, but depression is a complicated beast. It would be difficult to give a comprehensive comment in depression, so I think you did fine, but I want to point out that it is difficult and complex, and as much as we understand about it, there is so much that is not understood. This [1] is a video of a Robert Sapolsky lecture on depression that gives a high level but comprehensive overview of the current (as of 2009) state of understanding depression, kinds of depression, the role of some neurotransmitters. This is a compassionate, technical, and broad overview. 1. https://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc https://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

dabockster 8y ago

Jumping from this, a combination of any of the symptoms may indicate something much more severe with your mental health. You should see a doctor at that point. Source: Got diagnosed with ADHD after feeling burnout, depression, laziness, and imposter syndrome all at once.

protonimitate 8y ago

I like this summary, but disagree slightly with >Laziness is a lack of motivation that could be caused by any number of things, but is generally a sign that your current life situation doesn't inspire you into positive action. I see motivation/inspiration/laziness conflated a lot. IMO 'laziness' is just a lack of discipline. You can be disciplined and still accomplish things without motivation or inspiration. In fact, I would argue that if you wait until you are inspired/motivated to get things done, you will be on the less-productive side of the spectrum. Of course, it can be a huge challenge to stay disciplined when you are burnt out or depressed (or both). But, laziness is the difference between "I am depressed and don't feel like going to the gym" and "I am depressed and don't feel like going to the gym anyway, but I am still putting on my shoes and walking out the door".