5 ms·

Realize that this behavior is just fancy procrastination. I can collect recipes all day, but it won't make me a better cook.

enibundo 8y ago
Beautiful
davidscolgan 8y ago
Procrastination is fun and complicated. "Just Do It" doesn't seem to help much for me. After reading more I've found a number of reasons for procrastination that may be helpful depending on the cause: Is the task too vague? If so, making it more concrete helps. "Do taxes" is impossibly vague and scary and the brain rebels. "Make a list of all expenses this year" is better but still large. This is the most common actually helpful advice I've found. But also Do you not actually care about the task? Having a grand overarching goal for your career/life can help you make sure the task is worth doing. Or for something like taxes, you can say "this helps me achieve my goal because if I don't pay my taxes I'll probably go to jail." Do you not believe your project will succeed? This is a subtle one I only recently discovered. If I'm working on an app or a business idea and I get to the point where I don't believe it has a chance, I strongly lose motivation. Some say this is a survival mechanism - if a hunter gatherer had a plan to kill a wooley mammoth with a spear up close and that'd probably result in death, a strong sense of "procrastination" could be a lifesaver. Is it resistance to something that threatens your identity? This is a fun one - maybe you've internalized that you don't finish projects (I've had some of this I think). Finishing a project would threaten your "identity" of a non finisher, and some part of the brain _hates_ things that threaten it's identity. I think this one you just have to figure out a way to push through, and give that part of the brain fodder to convince itself that it's identity is not of "doesn't finish projects". The same can be true of earning money, and other kinds of success.
- mondo9000 8y ago
  There's a lot of valid perspectives, but I think its some kind of false reward system. Archiving a link on neural-networks is a low effort task that superficially appears to move you toward your goal of machine learning, whereas the Coursera class takes work (ie. not fun struggling with Octave syntax)
- matwood 8y ago
  The mind is great at rationalizing excuses. It is about executing. It is about having the discipline to do the things you don't want to do, but know they have to get done. As soon as you start thinking about motivation, you have lost. Motivation is fleeting. Even the most important task that is also fun will likely become a grind before you are done. How do you get it finished? Have the discipline to grind it out. I'm not implying any of this easy. When the alarm goes off every morning to go to the gym, it sucks. But I do it anyway. The first step is accepting it is not easy and it will suck at times.
  - MarsAscendant 8y ago
    > When the alarm goes off every morning to go to the gym, it sucks. But I do it anyway. The first step is accepting it is not easy and it will suck at times. This is a major problem for me right now. The depression doesn't help, but it's clear that it needn't stop me from doing well – as evident from all the great stuff artists with depression have made. How do you get to that point, mentally? Were you raised with discipline in mind – as in, were your parents/guardians promoting discipline within you? Did you get to it yourself?
    - mezod 8y ago
      See I might be wrong here, but I think the problem starts when you see yourself as a depressed person. Do you see yourself as someone who can wake up early and go to the gym? Do you see yourself as someone who could be disciplined? Don't get me wrong, you might be a depressed person. I see depression as a water swirl that keeps dragging you down and doesn't let you look at yourself as what you could be. It's the typical comparison of "I am trying to quit smoking" and "I'm not a smoker". You get to that point, mentally, by acting. Mentality affect behaviour, and behaviour affects mentality. If you see you can wake up, it's more easy that you'll see yourself as someone who can wake up and go to the gym.
      - MarsAscendant 8y ago
        To be fair, it's difficult to not see yourself as having <something> when <something> is everpresent in many aspects of your daily life. I want to socialize, but it's difficult. I want to work out, but it's really difficult. I want to finish the projects I start, but it's almost impossible after a while. Not because I want it to be – so that, perhaps, I could escape the strain of putting in the effort – but because it just is. That's the sad part. I get what you're saying – "Define yourself as someone who does the stuff you want to get done" – and I'm behind it. You're saying I should behave as if I'm already <someone> – the person who exercises, the person who socializes well, the person who finishes what they'd started? I've tried that before. It worked for a while, but then it always gets to the point where I feel the kind of an existential "meh" – the apathy towards achieving the thing because the thing no longer seems meaningful, even though I realize how much I value it in my head. That's the sadder part. Ernest Becker wrote about it in The Denial of Death. We all strive towards completing our projects of immortality – the things that memorialize us, the existence of which help us overcome physical death by becoming culturally immortal. People with depression lose faith in the fact that their projects are achievable. But suppose it's not true: suppose I can actually manage it. What do I do?
- mezod 8y ago
  this might be the single most useful reply in the whole thread. Specificitiy (paragraph 2) is crucial. I'd add that goals (paragraph 3) are a result of identity (paragraph 5) so it's basically the same idea. How do you see your better self? Do these projects/tasks align with your vision of your better self? If you feel you are X (paragraph 5) and you feel you can be superX (paragraph 4) you'll undoubtedly be able to carry on with your goals (paragraph 3). Breaking these down (paragraph 2) will help. Not satisfied with the way I put it but that's the idea.
- MarsAscendant 8y ago
  You've hit the nail on the head for me with the last paragraph. Thank you for verbalizing it.
geezerjay 8y ago
> Realize that this behavior is just fancy procrastination. I can collect recipes all day, but it won't make me a better cook. I don't believe this assertion makes any sense. I may never be a Michelin-star chef, but if I set a goal to learn how to cook and set a plan on how to achieve that, I will surely be able to cook a decent meal within a reasonable amount of time and results will be far better than what I would get if I procrastinated instead.
sergiotapia 8y ago
Also the mind is masterful at protecting it's ego by making you procrastinate things you think are difficult. You end up not doing them because you _think_ they're hard to do and you don't want to risk it. Identify when this is happening and just do it. Force yourself to at least give it the 30 minute try and 90% of the time you'll find yourself in the zone and just doing it.
pliftkl 8y ago
I love that. I definitely have more recipes than cooking skills. Better head to the kitchen!
therealdrag0 8y ago
Reminds me of the quote "Imagining the future is a kind of nostalgia. (...) You spend your whole life stuck in the labyrinth, thinking about how you'll escape it one day, and how awesome it will be, and imagining that future keeps you going, but you never do it. You just use the future to escape the present." ― John Green, Looking for Alaska

enibundo 8y ago

Beautiful

davidscolgan 8y ago

Procrastination is fun and complicated. "Just Do It" doesn't seem to help much for me. After reading more I've found a number of reasons for procrastination that may be helpful depending on the cause: Is the task too vague? If so, making it more concrete helps. "Do taxes" is impossibly vague and scary and the brain rebels. "Make a list of all expenses this year" is better but still large. This is the most common actually helpful advice I've found. But also Do you not actually care about the task? Having a grand overarching goal for your career/life can help you make sure the task is worth doing. Or for something like taxes, you can say "this helps me achieve my goal because if I don't pay my taxes I'll probably go to jail." Do you not believe your project will succeed? This is a subtle one I only recently discovered. If I'm working on an app or a business idea and I get to the point where I don't believe it has a chance, I strongly lose motivation. Some say this is a survival mechanism - if a hunter gatherer had a plan to kill a wooley mammoth with a spear up close and that'd probably result in death, a strong sense of "procrastination" could be a lifesaver. Is it resistance to something that threatens your identity? This is a fun one - maybe you've internalized that you don't finish projects (I've had some of this I think). Finishing a project would threaten your "identity" of a non finisher, and some part of the brain _hates_ things that threaten it's identity. I think this one you just have to figure out a way to push through, and give that part of the brain fodder to convince itself that it's identity is not of "doesn't finish projects". The same can be true of earning money, and other kinds of success.

mondo9000 8y ago
There's a lot of valid perspectives, but I think its some kind of false reward system. Archiving a link on neural-networks is a low effort task that superficially appears to move you toward your goal of machine learning, whereas the Coursera class takes work (ie. not fun struggling with Octave syntax)
matwood 8y ago
The mind is great at rationalizing excuses. It is about executing. It is about having the discipline to do the things you don't want to do, but know they have to get done. As soon as you start thinking about motivation, you have lost. Motivation is fleeting. Even the most important task that is also fun will likely become a grind before you are done. How do you get it finished? Have the discipline to grind it out. I'm not implying any of this easy. When the alarm goes off every morning to go to the gym, it sucks. But I do it anyway. The first step is accepting it is not easy and it will suck at times.
- MarsAscendant 8y ago
  > When the alarm goes off every morning to go to the gym, it sucks. But I do it anyway. The first step is accepting it is not easy and it will suck at times. This is a major problem for me right now. The depression doesn't help, but it's clear that it needn't stop me from doing well – as evident from all the great stuff artists with depression have made. How do you get to that point, mentally? Were you raised with discipline in mind – as in, were your parents/guardians promoting discipline within you? Did you get to it yourself?
  - mezod 8y ago
    See I might be wrong here, but I think the problem starts when you see yourself as a depressed person. Do you see yourself as someone who can wake up early and go to the gym? Do you see yourself as someone who could be disciplined? Don't get me wrong, you might be a depressed person. I see depression as a water swirl that keeps dragging you down and doesn't let you look at yourself as what you could be. It's the typical comparison of "I am trying to quit smoking" and "I'm not a smoker". You get to that point, mentally, by acting. Mentality affect behaviour, and behaviour affects mentality. If you see you can wake up, it's more easy that you'll see yourself as someone who can wake up and go to the gym.
    - MarsAscendant 8y ago
      To be fair, it's difficult to not see yourself as having <something> when <something> is everpresent in many aspects of your daily life. I want to socialize, but it's difficult. I want to work out, but it's really difficult. I want to finish the projects I start, but it's almost impossible after a while. Not because I want it to be – so that, perhaps, I could escape the strain of putting in the effort – but because it just is. That's the sad part. I get what you're saying – "Define yourself as someone who does the stuff you want to get done" – and I'm behind it. You're saying I should behave as if I'm already <someone> – the person who exercises, the person who socializes well, the person who finishes what they'd started? I've tried that before. It worked for a while, but then it always gets to the point where I feel the kind of an existential "meh" – the apathy towards achieving the thing because the thing no longer seems meaningful, even though I realize how much I value it in my head. That's the sadder part. Ernest Becker wrote about it in The Denial of Death. We all strive towards completing our projects of immortality – the things that memorialize us, the existence of which help us overcome physical death by becoming culturally immortal. People with depression lose faith in the fact that their projects are achievable. But suppose it's not true: suppose I can actually manage it. What do I do?
mezod 8y ago
this might be the single most useful reply in the whole thread. Specificitiy (paragraph 2) is crucial. I'd add that goals (paragraph 3) are a result of identity (paragraph 5) so it's basically the same idea. How do you see your better self? Do these projects/tasks align with your vision of your better self? If you feel you are X (paragraph 5) and you feel you can be superX (paragraph 4) you'll undoubtedly be able to carry on with your goals (paragraph 3). Breaking these down (paragraph 2) will help. Not satisfied with the way I put it but that's the idea.
MarsAscendant 8y ago
You've hit the nail on the head for me with the last paragraph. Thank you for verbalizing it.

geezerjay 8y ago

> Realize that this behavior is just fancy procrastination. I can collect recipes all day, but it won't make me a better cook. I don't believe this assertion makes any sense. I may never be a Michelin-star chef, but if I set a goal to learn how to cook and set a plan on how to achieve that, I will surely be able to cook a decent meal within a reasonable amount of time and results will be far better than what I would get if I procrastinated instead.

sergiotapia 8y ago

Also the mind is masterful at protecting it's ego by making you procrastinate things you think are difficult. You end up not doing them because you _think_ they're hard to do and you don't want to risk it. Identify when this is happening and just do it. Force yourself to at least give it the 30 minute try and 90% of the time you'll find yourself in the zone and just doing it.

pliftkl 8y ago

I love that. I definitely have more recipes than cooking skills. Better head to the kitchen!

therealdrag0 8y ago

Reminds me of the quote "Imagining the future is a kind of nostalgia. (...) You spend your whole life stuck in the labyrinth, thinking about how you'll escape it one day, and how awesome it will be, and imagining that future keeps you going, but you never do it. You just use the future to escape the present." ― John Green, Looking for Alaska