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‘A Minefield’: How Scholars Who Don’t Drink Navigate the Conference Social Scene
- eesmith 8y agoI rarely drink, and when I drink the most it's definitely at conferences. The most drinking seems to be at UK conferences, in part because so many people head to a nearby pub in addition to the conference events. I never thought about what it might mean for someone who is trying to remain sober. That's gotta be tough for some!
- dannykwells 8y agoThis is a problem beyond academia - tech has the same issue too. See this Wired article from a while back: https://www.wired.com/2016/12/techs-alcohol-soaked-culture-isnt-party-everybody/ https://www.wired.com/2016/12/techs-alcohol-soaked-culture-i... I'm going to hazard a guess that any field, at a certain level, has these issues because so much of it all comes down to personal relationships and making deals...which happen over drinks (historically). I'd be curious to learn more about high-functioning organizations without an alcohol culture - what do they do instead?
- sokoloff 8y agoArticle> those who don't participate [in drinking alcohol] are de facto excluded Though I do sometimes drink, I've never felt uncomfortable ordering a water, a non-alcoholic beer (more commonly in Europe), a soda, or a coffee at a place where "everyone else" is drinking. That may not seem as comfortable in Japan or China, but in Europe, India, and America, I haven't felt the least bit self-conscious or pressured beyond the occasional "Oh, no beer for you?" "None for me, thanks." interaction.
- orev 8y agoAnd you can order things that appear to contain alcohol if you feel self-conscious about it. With the added benefit that after a few hours you still have a clear head while everyone else is buzzing — a potential advantage for you.
- tnolet 8y agoNot a doctor or expert, but in my experience in tech and startups I noticed a strong difference between (younger) American coworkers and Europeans. Alcohol seemed totally normal to Europeans (and also declining alcohol was never a big deal) whereas with some US expats the “pressure” was more palpable. Some US friends and coworkers openly discussed this “weird relationship” Americans have with alcohol and how it develops during high school onto college. Can’t comment on that but it fits my anecdotal experience.
- ericsoderstrom 8y agoMaybe not cirrhosis specialists Probably the medical industry as a whole has less of this, I'd assume.
- Mediterraneo10 8y agoWow, I have never seen much alcohol available at conferences in my own field. Often they are held on university premises instead of at hotels like in the linked article, and so perhaps serving alcohol is forbidden there. All one gets is free coffee and some cakes. Sometimes attendees will decide to have dinner together after the day’s programme, but that just means a restaurant where each person can decide whether to order a glass of wine or not, and certainly not an open bar. A while back I read the memoirs of one prominent scholar in my own field. He claimed that conferences are so often used for impetuous sex between academics, whether single or married. That’s another dodgy side I have never noticed personally. It makes me wonder if he was exaggerating or I have simply been blind to it.
- jabberthemutt 8y agoMe neither, maybe it is a cultural US thing?
- darkpuma 8y agoIn my experience there is little to no alcohol at the conference itself but "the real networking happens at the bar" down the street.
- fouc 8y agoThe drinking happens outside conference typically. It's part of the socializing.
- eesmith 8y agoI have been to conferences in the US and Europe. Receptions with complimentary wine or beer are pretty common. This includes conferences held at universities. What field are you in?
- subjectHarold 8y agoI don't understand what the big deal is...we should ban alcohol at these events because some people don't like it? I don't drink, I haven't done so since my first year of uni...it has never been an issue. Might there be a correlation between people who don't drink and being introverted/feeling excluded? This is definitely true in my case (at one time, I had social anxiety...alcohol was a crutch for me) but you just have to get over it and stop thinking that you deserve an exemption. If we make this exception, guess what...the same people are going to complain about being excluded for some other arbitrary reason.
- aphextron 8y ago>I don't understand what the big deal is...we should ban alcohol at these events because some people don't like it? Yeah. It’s honestly really annoying. This is a big problem in tech, too, and I’ve seen it lead to a lot of alienation between employees. I don’t think alcohol belongs in any kind of professional setting at all. Should I be able to spark up a joint, too? That’s just as legal as alcohol here.
- ataturk 8y agoIf you think tech is bad, check POLITICS. They are the biggest drunks by orders of magnitude.
- duaoebg 8y agoI once worked at a place with lots of diversity, so no alcohol, beef, or bacon was allowed at official functions. It ended up meaning a number of us started our own private secret social gatherings which excluded those who had these restrictions. I didn’t want to exclude people but I also like bacon burgers with my beer.
- subjectHarold 8y agoI am not sure what diversity has to do with it? As said, I don't drink but does that mean no-one else should be allowed to drink? What is the idea behind that? Just imo: if you don't drink but have a problem with others doing so then there is something wrong with you, not with the people who drink. And speaking from experience, the people who do have a problem with others drinking tend to be motivated by religions that conflict with accepted ideals of liberal democracy (i.e. they look down on people who drink, believe they are unclean/mad/whatever).
- nimbius 8y agoIm an automotive mechanic by trade, so im a little surprised to hear theres any drinking at all in academics? universities and all being rather dry places. Machinists, mechanics, heck any blue-collar tradesman...we invented miller time. when the last deadblow gets put away and the timecards punched for the day, its almost impossible to avoid hitting a local dive for a few brews. And if you're in-like-sin with the bar owner its even worse. I remember fixing a few compressor motors for a brew-pub...just simple bearing replacement...and if i so much as look in the window the guy hauls me in off the street to tie one on.
- profunctor 8y agoI found there to be a lot of drinking academics. Maybe in the US its different?
- Junk_Collector 8y agoDrinking at conferences is incredibly common in the US both for industry and Academia. I've never seen anyone pressured to do so though and there is almost always at least someone who isn't drinking there. Drinking at government conferences is more rare, at least during the official parts, because they have a policy against paying for alcohol in most (but not all) situations. People often meet up for drinks afterwards in smaller groups at the hotel bar or local watering hole.
- lenticular 8y agoCome to a geology conference sometime. There's actually a big alcoholism problem in academia. There's no alcohol on campus, but grad students and professors still go drinking after work. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it is easy to slide into heavier drinking in that kind of culture.
- irrational 8y agoIf a machinist never wanted to go out to drink, but just wanted to get home to the family, would that person get harassed?
- semi-extrinsic 8y agoJust for reflection, let's consider instead the case when conferences organize a nature hike or similar. Certainly the function of this is very similar to organizing a cocktail reception - give people a chance to network and have fun. But some people are not able to participate, e.g. due to a physical disability, or they just don't like it. Should the conference stop organizing nature hikes?
- ddeokbokki 8y agoContext is key, if you work in a re-rehabilitation center, you are not going to organise a nature hike. Alcohol should not be a key factor for people to network and have fun, especially in professional spaces.
- nostrebored 8y agoBars almost always have alternative options or food, unlike physical activities
- darkpuma 8y agoI go on nature hikes during work less often than I drink during work. The only 'hike' I've ever seen in a professional office setting was when the department rented out a movie theater and my boss decided that we'd walk a mile together to get to the theater. Of course that was more of an urban stroll than a nature hike. Is watching Tron Legacy a legitimate part of a professional environment? It was that day.
- merlincorey 8y ago> Alcohol should not be a key factor for people to network and have fun, especially in professional spaces. It's not called "social lubricant" for nothing. While we're far and away from the Madmen era all day drinkathons, it is certainly acceptable in professional spaces and capacities for a little alcohol to be shared. It's certainly not required, but I wouldn't say it's unprofessional to have a couple drinks at a professional event offering them.
- bunderbunder 8y ago
- jedberg 8y agoI do drink, but sometimes I don't feel well enough to drink or I know I'm going to have to drive right after the conference. In those cases I just order water. No one has ever shamed me or even said anything about the fact that I had a glass or bottle of water instead of a drink. This doesn't seem like a very hard problem to solve.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago> No one has ever shamed me or even said anything about the fact that I had a glass or bottle of water instead of a drink. That's nice for you, but based on the article it's clearly not universal.
- andonisus 8y agoEven if someone were to shame you, what's to stop you from ignoring them? So what if other people have opinions about your behavior; just acknowledge them and move on.
- ablation 8y agoI'm not sure the shaming or even the people is the biggest issue with alcoholism and the issues raised in the article. It's more the almost overwhelming temptation - the need, even - to consume alcohol. It's not an issue I face, as I'm not an alcoholic, but I'm sympathetic to those who do suffer from this disease and face a less than equal footing in their professional lives as a result. I don't have a solution for the problem.
- PhasmaFelis 8y agoThese are important networking events, as the article mentions. Making a bad impression could potentially impact your career. (Aside from the fact that humans are social animals wired to experience discomfort when snubbed. "Grow a thicker skin" is sometimes necessary, but it shouldn't have to be the default.)
- nostrebored 8y agoIf as an academic you can't handle joking criticism, you've chosen the wrong field.
- PakG1 8y agoI'm not sure what the solution would be for alcoholics who need to stay sober. But for others who don't like alcohol, but still like drinking something with a similar taste while chatting with people who do drink, nonalcoholic beer is a thing and tastes about the same. My colleague introduced me to nonalcoholic beer and I was amazed, I personally like it better than many other beers, though I suppose it probably just depends on the brew.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- ergothus 8y agoWhen I moved to Seattle, I was amazed at how many social functions revolve around beer. Work functions, meetups of all varieties... Heck, my last two offices have in-office kegs. I technically drink, I just don't particularly like most alcohol and definitely don't like beer. I don't begrudge anyone their pleasures, and I don't have a particular change I'd suggest - if I'm the outlier, it only makes sense for them to target the common case. But I was definitely surprised at the ubiquity.
- virusduck 8y ago"Um, actually, I prefer a nice mead"
- merlincorey 8y ago> "Um, actually, I prefer a nice mead" Now that you mention it, I actually DO prefer a nice mead. Nice mead is amazing. Get yourself 15 pounds of honey and give it a shot if you have brewing equipment or know anyone that does.
- virusduck 8y agoI agree. I'm more of a beer homebrewer, but I have a mead-making friend that makes some amazing meads. He manages to squirrel them away in his house so that he forgets about bottles. Then, when they turn up years later, they're just spectacular!
- darrelld 8y agoIt's just as bad in tech. I've been trying to limit my alcohol intake because I just don't care for spending money on it anymore and I overall just don't care for it anymore. The blowback has been surprising. Sly comments and side glances galore.
- ablation 8y agoI've not suffered from this first-hand, but I've definitely seen it happen to other people - either bizarre, almost frat-like hazing, or the sly glances as you mention takes place at some tech events/socials when someone says they don't drink. Not all the time. Or even the majority of the time. But it's happened more than a handful of time.
- GlenTheMachine 8y agoI don't drink, and this has just never been an issue. I attend at least three academic conferences a year, and many more professional meetings (typically multi-day meetings with clients, sponsors, or partners). I almost always show up to the receptions. Typically I will order a Coke or a ginger ale. I throw my drinks tickets away. I walk around and talk to people. It's never been awkward. No one has ever told me that they "felt judged" because I wasn't drinking. I've been doing this for nearly thirty years now. I did it as a grad student. I certainly spent some time in bars, and I've carried my share of drunken grad students home. Even they never indicated that I was judging them. Because, you know, I wasn't. If for some reason you don't want to be in bars, or around people drinking -- if you are struggling with sobriety -- then sure. I get that. But if you just don't want to drink yourself? Never been a problem.
- airstrike 8y agoI'm in Wall Street, not academia, and I have the same issue. I'm not a recovering alcoholic by any stretch of the imagination, and yet I do think "this is a big deal" so maybe my personal anecdote might help others in this thread sympathize with the author. I used to drink a lot in my 20s (binge drinking every Friday and/or Saturday was the norm for a couple of years) but now that I'm in my 30s with a ton of responsibilities and need to be an actual adult, I just can't afford to be hungover the next day. It also helps that I think more longer-term and really don't want to give myself cancer. Nearly every event or client dinner I attend has essentially an open bar, and by God I wish they didn't. First, because no good can come out of coworkers being drunk around each other. Second, because it's much harder to say no to alcohol (something I'm consciously trying to avoid) when I'm offered top shelf booze for free. Third, and most importantly, because my coworkers will likely think I'm weird, anti-social or that I am judging them for drinking. Even if you think the odds of that happening are 10% (and I think the odds are more like 90% especially among older, male partners), it means a non-zero damage to my career, and I'm not willing to risk that. So I order a glass of wine, or quietly go to the bar and order a ginger ale, or some sparkling water with lime and pretend I'm drinking alcohol....
- opportune 8y agoWhat is a problem: people pressuring you to drink, people drinking during "official" functions (outside of some function specifically designated for networking/socializing), people getting obnoxiously drunk What is not a problem: other people drinking during a social event. Just get a non-alcoholic drink to sip on, nobody will care
- jim_bailie 8y agoLet's not overthink this. If you don't want to drink alcohol get a soda and mingle and have some fun. Or do what I do: Get a seltzer water with a twist of lemon. Tastes refreshing and looks legit.