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I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching surveillance state and took judgment away from officers. Then (and sorry, I know it

I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching surveillance state and took judgment away from officers. Then (and sorry, I know it's a tired thing to say) I had a kid. And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. It's enough to make you hate all drivers, though a moment of reflection reveals that even if 1 out of 100 drives dangerously, you'll remember that 1. We need car control every bit as much as gun control, and speed cameras are a big part of that. People die when drivers are left unchecked. Disproportionately, it's people not inside cars. Of course, people also die from the emissions coming out of the tailpipe, which is what these protesters seem to want to do freely. "Oh, your grandma has emphysema and lives near the road? Tough shit, I want my cheap diesel."

Cthulhu_ 8y ago
It's not that people want cheap diesel, they want their job and wages to match up with the cost of living. The proportion between wages and cost of living has gotten worse over time (while the ones responsible for that, lawmakers and employers, have enriched themselves).
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  Well from experience in the UK in the country there is a lot of using tax exempt red diesel (meant for tractors etc) in your diesel car.
TomK32 8y ago
As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane to overtake or slow down and wait for a good moment. I can't wait for laws to enforce speed limits via tech in modern cars.
- _Microft 8y ago
  I also believe that people just do not know yet how much nicer and relaxing it will be to be automatically driven at the speed limit even if the street looks like you could go faster and then, as a driver, having to restrain one-self from going faster.
  - dorchadas 8y ago
    I read the 2004 book In Praise of Slow (a surprisingly prescient book, to be honest) last year and Honoré talked about the speed limit. I don't know what it was, but something in it clicked for me and I have been actively trying to make sure I don't speed. Sure, there are times I still do, particularly if running late and on a parkway, but in general I've become a much safer driver (which is saying something). It's been nice, to be honest. I've noticed it bleed into other thigs in my life and I'm no longer worried about the 'go go go' mentality of modern life as much. But we have a cultural issue surrounding speeding. I've mentioned it in passing and the number of people who've basically mocked me for it is too high. Sure, they're joking, but it's an issue we need to fix on a societal level... Thankfully, I think the automatic enforcement in cars will do that. Hopefully it comes sooner, as I've seen nothing but benefits from trying to stay the speed limit - and it doesn't even slow me down that much since I'm not driving long distances (>100 miles) at a time. Less than 5 minutes usually.
    - TomK32 8y ago
      In a podcast I recently listened to (in german) there was the example of a manager who always came home totally stressed from the drive until he added a daily stop a few kilometer before arrive home, just to get out the car, enjoy the view and calm down from the day and job. Worked like a treat.
  - nojvek 8y ago
    My car has adaptive cruise control (go at X speed max, or follow car in front, which ever is slower). This has resulted in a much stress-less driving experience. It would be nice for the car GPS to automatically sync with the cruise control and set appropriate speeds.
- yzb 8y ago
  Doesn't surprise me that drivers hate cyclists so much.
- Aaargh20318 8y ago
  > As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane What are you doing on the road if you're on a bike ? What do you think bicycle lanes are for ?
  - boudin 8y ago
    A huge amount of roads doesn't have bike lanes.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    99% of the time: what bicycle lanes? Even then bicycles aren't legally or morally obliged to stay in them if it's unsafe to do so.
  - sveme 8y ago
    In some countries, if there's no dedicated bike lane you have to cycle on the road. Germany, for example.
  - yzb 8y ago
    I think roads are not a place for cyclists to be. For the security of everybody only motorised vehicles should be able to use them if they have no bicycle lane.
    - TomK32 8y ago
      here comes the Nanny State...
  - TomK32 8y ago
    I use the bicyle lane when there is one. But in the city with cars parked on the road side I simply have to keep 1 meter distance to the side to avoid dooring (google it!) and that puts me into into the middle of the lane. Which in turn means that cars behind me have to use the oncoming lane to overtake me. If I were cycling more to the side the cars behind me a) wouldn't slow down b) overtake me with little to no space around me and thus endanger me in all those unexpected siutations on the road. Also, who said those roads are just for cars? Roads have been around since roman times, unlike cars.
adav 8y ago
> And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. 100%. However, the majority of cameras are placed on deserted countryside main roads and non-pedestrianised motorways/interstate type roads. More camera locations should be prioritised for protecting pedestrians.
- TomK32 8y ago
  Those cameras are not to protect pedestrians, they exist to enforce drivers to stick to the speed limit. Look at these charts. Speeding rural areas kill! Also, take a guess at what time SUVs became popular in urban areas. https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/roadway-and-environment/fatalityfacts/roadway-and-environment https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/roadway-and-environment/f...
  - IshKebab 8y ago
    Very interesting tables! I'm not sure what you mean by "Speeding rural areas kill!" but the relevant table shows that the same proportion of deaths are speeding related in rural and urban locations.
  - tomp 8y ago
    The point is, speed cameras are just a bad solution. At best, they're a passive aggressive way of exerting government control over citizens. At worst, they're a revenue-increasing mafia-protection-like tool. If you actually want to protect pedestrians, you build physical "traffic calming" obstacles like speed bumps or chicanes [1]. Switzerland is full of these, and they're very effective. There's really no good reason to have speed cameras (although red light cameras might be a better idea), especially on the motorway (Germany manages without motorway speed limits, so clearly they're not necessary to have a functioning society). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicane#Traffic_calming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicane#Traffic_calming
    - CalRobert 8y ago
      That is indeed the best solution. I'd love to have them everywhere.
ammojamo 8y ago
> We need car control every bit as much as gun control, and speed cameras are a big part of that. People die when drivers are left unchecked. Disproportionately, it's people not inside cars. I agree completely. To be honest, from a safety perspective, I would be happy if speed cameras were integrated with street lighting so that basically every stretch of road was covered by speed cameras. That said, I think that penalties should be in the form of a points system that ultimately results in losing your driver's license if you consistently speed. Financial penalties seem to disproportionately penalise the poor.
- jaziek 8y ago
  Is that not the way it works in the states? That's how it is in England. 3 points for a speeding offence. 12 points and you lose your license for 6 months. Points take 3 years to disappear from your license. You also get fined up to 75% of your weekly income, based on how much over the limit you were going, and there are some hard limits (100 mph?) which result in an instant loss of license. It seems sensible. I agree that financial penalty does disproportianately affect the poor, but at least scaling it with income means the rich cannot completely ignore it either, as they could with a static fine.
  - ammojamo 8y ago
    Not sure about the states but here in Australia it works basically as you have described - but there is also a very expensive (in my opinion) fine for each speeding offense, and this is not scaled according to income.
    - nojvek 8y ago
      Australian fines are quite ridiculous. As a student, a speeding ticket of $700 meant two weeks of my pay gone. They really do run a mafia extortion system there.
- dorchadas 8y ago
  Financial penalties and a camera system would be a nice way to get some budget needs met though. You can even do it on parkway by putting cameras at the exits and timing how long it takes from one to the other. Or, implement a toll road that charges you more the quicker you get there. Someone driving the speed limit doesnt pay, but everyone else above (or driving too slow) does, with it rising the further you away from the limkt you get.
kilotaras 8y ago
This may not be possible in your case but you can try organizing the neighbors and petition local government to install traffic calming measures. Physical laws are harder to ignore than traffic ones.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Cthulhu_ 8y ago

It's not that people want cheap diesel, they want their job and wages to match up with the cost of living. The proportion between wages and cost of living has gotten worse over time (while the ones responsible for that, lawmakers and employers, have enriched themselves).

C1sc0cat 8y ago
Well from experience in the UK in the country there is a lot of using tax exempt red diesel (meant for tractors etc) in your diesel car.

TomK32 8y ago

As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane to overtake or slow down and wait for a good moment. I can't wait for laws to enforce speed limits via tech in modern cars.

_Microft 8y ago
I also believe that people just do not know yet how much nicer and relaxing it will be to be automatically driven at the speed limit even if the street looks like you could go faster and then, as a driver, having to restrain one-self from going faster.
- dorchadas 8y ago
  I read the 2004 book In Praise of Slow (a surprisingly prescient book, to be honest) last year and Honoré talked about the speed limit. I don't know what it was, but something in it clicked for me and I have been actively trying to make sure I don't speed. Sure, there are times I still do, particularly if running late and on a parkway, but in general I've become a much safer driver (which is saying something). It's been nice, to be honest. I've noticed it bleed into other thigs in my life and I'm no longer worried about the 'go go go' mentality of modern life as much. But we have a cultural issue surrounding speeding. I've mentioned it in passing and the number of people who've basically mocked me for it is too high. Sure, they're joking, but it's an issue we need to fix on a societal level... Thankfully, I think the automatic enforcement in cars will do that. Hopefully it comes sooner, as I've seen nothing but benefits from trying to stay the speed limit - and it doesn't even slow me down that much since I'm not driving long distances (>100 miles) at a time. Less than 5 minutes usually.
  - TomK32 8y ago
    In a podcast I recently listened to (in german) there was the example of a manager who always came home totally stressed from the drive until he added a daily stop a few kilometer before arrive home, just to get out the car, enjoy the view and calm down from the day and job. Worked like a treat.
- nojvek 8y ago
  My car has adaptive cruise control (go at X speed max, or follow car in front, which ever is slower). This has resulted in a much stress-less driving experience. It would be nice for the car GPS to automatically sync with the cruise control and set appropriate speeds.
yzb 8y ago
Doesn't surprise me that drivers hate cyclists so much.
Aaargh20318 8y ago
> As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane What are you doing on the road if you're on a bike ? What do you think bicycle lanes are for ?
- boudin 8y ago
  A huge amount of roads doesn't have bike lanes.
- pjc50 8y ago
  99% of the time: what bicycle lanes? Even then bicycles aren't legally or morally obliged to stay in them if it's unsafe to do so.
- sveme 8y ago
  In some countries, if there's no dedicated bike lane you have to cycle on the road. Germany, for example.
- yzb 8y ago
  I think roads are not a place for cyclists to be. For the security of everybody only motorised vehicles should be able to use them if they have no bicycle lane.
  - TomK32 8y ago
    here comes the Nanny State...
- TomK32 8y ago
  I use the bicyle lane when there is one. But in the city with cars parked on the road side I simply have to keep 1 meter distance to the side to avoid dooring (google it!) and that puts me into into the middle of the lane. Which in turn means that cars behind me have to use the oncoming lane to overtake me. If I were cycling more to the side the cars behind me a) wouldn't slow down b) overtake me with little to no space around me and thus endanger me in all those unexpected siutations on the road. Also, who said those roads are just for cars? Roads have been around since roman times, unlike cars.

adav 8y ago

> And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. 100%. However, the majority of cameras are placed on deserted countryside main roads and non-pedestrianised motorways/interstate type roads. More camera locations should be prioritised for protecting pedestrians.

TomK32 8y ago
Those cameras are not to protect pedestrians, they exist to enforce drivers to stick to the speed limit. Look at these charts. Speeding rural areas kill! Also, take a guess at what time SUVs became popular in urban areas. https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/roadway-and-environment/fatalityfacts/roadway-and-environment https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/roadway-and-environment/f...
- IshKebab 8y ago
  Very interesting tables! I'm not sure what you mean by "Speeding rural areas kill!" but the relevant table shows that the same proportion of deaths are speeding related in rural and urban locations.
- tomp 8y ago
  The point is, speed cameras are just a bad solution. At best, they're a passive aggressive way of exerting government control over citizens. At worst, they're a revenue-increasing mafia-protection-like tool. If you actually want to protect pedestrians, you build physical "traffic calming" obstacles like speed bumps or chicanes [1]. Switzerland is full of these, and they're very effective. There's really no good reason to have speed cameras (although red light cameras might be a better idea), especially on the motorway (Germany manages without motorway speed limits, so clearly they're not necessary to have a functioning society). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicane#Traffic_calming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicane#Traffic_calming
  - CalRobert 8y ago
    That is indeed the best solution. I'd love to have them everywhere.

ammojamo 8y ago

> We need car control every bit as much as gun control, and speed cameras are a big part of that. People die when drivers are left unchecked. Disproportionately, it's people not inside cars. I agree completely. To be honest, from a safety perspective, I would be happy if speed cameras were integrated with street lighting so that basically every stretch of road was covered by speed cameras. That said, I think that penalties should be in the form of a points system that ultimately results in losing your driver's license if you consistently speed. Financial penalties seem to disproportionately penalise the poor.

jaziek 8y ago
Is that not the way it works in the states? That's how it is in England. 3 points for a speeding offence. 12 points and you lose your license for 6 months. Points take 3 years to disappear from your license. You also get fined up to 75% of your weekly income, based on how much over the limit you were going, and there are some hard limits (100 mph?) which result in an instant loss of license. It seems sensible. I agree that financial penalty does disproportianately affect the poor, but at least scaling it with income means the rich cannot completely ignore it either, as they could with a static fine.
- ammojamo 8y ago
  Not sure about the states but here in Australia it works basically as you have described - but there is also a very expensive (in my opinion) fine for each speeding offense, and this is not scaled according to income.
  - nojvek 8y ago
    Australian fines are quite ridiculous. As a student, a speeding ticket of $700 meant two weeks of my pay gone. They really do run a mafia extortion system there.
dorchadas 8y ago
Financial penalties and a camera system would be a nice way to get some budget needs met though. You can even do it on parkway by putting cameras at the exits and timing how long it takes from one to the other. Or, implement a toll road that charges you more the quicker you get there. Someone driving the speed limit doesnt pay, but everyone else above (or driving too slow) does, with it rising the further you away from the limkt you get.

kilotaras 8y ago

This may not be possible in your case but you can try organizing the neighbors and petition local government to install traffic calming measures. Physical laws are harder to ignore than traffic ones.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]