25 ms·

Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

93 points by tomerbd 8y ago

raverbashing 8y ago
Next they will complain about how road accidents have increased and how the government is incompetent
TomMarius 8y ago
"Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor." This is also the case in Central and Eastern Europe. EDIT: Please read what I cited properly. The citation includes the "Some protesters feel ..." part, which is what I meant - that many people in central and eastern Europe feel the same, not that I feel they're right (what I think is irrelevant).
- aerodog 8y ago
  In the Bay Area (San Francisco etc.), it's not necessarily "from the poor", but I've been punished in excess of $500 for not coming to a complete stop at a red light (only having slowed down). It's like this everywhere - it's a tool for extortion. And it's terrible.
  - jedberg 8y ago
    Usually you can just ignore those tickets. They can't prove you got the ticket, nor can they prove you were driving. And if they send it to a collection agency, you can demand proof of the debt and they will usually just give up. But yeah, they're installed by 3rd parties and are usually just there to make money.
  - CalRobert 8y ago
    California stops are very dangerous to pedestrians.
- D_Guidi 8y ago
  the poor simply can respect the rules like the rich, right?
  - zuppy 8y ago
    you got it wrong: the rich will pay, but that amount means nothing to them.
    - gambiting 8y ago
      That's where the penalty points come in - you can't pay your way out of losing your licence once you get enough of them. The fine might be meaningless but having to stop driving for 12 months is not.
      - naz 8y ago
        Penalty points also disproportionately affect the poor, who are more likely to depend on their driving license for their income
        gambiting 8y ago
        So what do you propose? That we punish people who put others in danger less because they are poor? Someone moving at 100km/h through a city isn't any less likely to kill someone when hit just because they are poor. They aren't any less of a danger just because they have a family that depends on them. Someone they hit won't be any less dead because the driver has 5 children and mountains of debt.
        TomMarius 8y ago
        > Someone moving at 100km/h through a city isn't any less likely to kill someone when hit just because they are poor. Actually we could argue that it's more likely due to the poor average condition and old age of their cars. A new Mercedes brakes much better than a 20 year old Skoda and usually has auto-braking systems and braking force enhancers. However "going through a city" is very general. There are several actual highways (by law as well as by construction standards) in Prague going through the city where the speed limit (70 km/h) is frequently broken with no possible victims - the exact same road has 130 km/h limit outside the city.
- gambiting 8y ago
  I have very mixed feelings about this. I have been caught by a money-making camera myself(middle of a forest in rural Poland, far away from any houses, and yet it was still a "built-up" area with speed limit of 50km/h, because technically there wasn't a sign ending it after leaving the last town few km back), but on the other hand, there's so many people speeding in cities, frequently doing 100km/h or above on very busy streets, that I am all for building more speed cameras in those places. And then: " solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor." Unless someone can prove a connection that someone poor is more likely to speed, then I don't see how that's true. I think the opposite was proven recently, no? That rich people with expensive cars are more likely to disobey traffic laws.
  - sooheon 8y ago
    Let's assume poor and rich are equally likely to speed (except the rich who only move in limos or helis). Flat fees still hurt the poor more, because they cut into living expenses. To be truly egalitarian, these fees should be a % of income and a % of wealth.
    - atoav 8y ago
      Which would be fair, because the goal of these things is to avoid misbehaviour with potentially deadly consequences. There is no reason someone poor should pay 40% of their monthly paycheck while someone rich pays with <1% of their montly paycheck. This is why in a lot of european nations on top of the fines you have a point-based system – if you have three points you get your driving license revoked and you will have it revoked for some time and then you have to do some driving tests again. This actually works quite well in preventing bad behaviour (assuming you have a non corrupt police), but one could argue that it is a much, much worse punishment to the poor again (it can potentially destroy them economically, including the loss of income source etc).
    - ekingr 8y ago
      That is why there is also (in France at least) a system of points on the driving license. Everybody has the same count (12) at the beginning and will lose an equal amount in case of an infraction. If you lose all of them your license is suspended.
- _Microft 8y ago
  Speed cameras are not toll booths. They do not take money from people indiscriminately but only from the ones that think that they can get away with speeding. (Unfortunately speeding seems almost necessary for e.g. delivery drivers which are in turn not the most well-paid jobs.) Problem is rather how the fines are structured. 50€ might be a disaster for someone living on welfare while it's pocket change for others. If I remember correctly Finland countered this by making traffic fines daily rates of income.
- seszett 8y ago
  Yes, many people think that but for my part, I have really noticed a big decrease in speeding since these fixed speed cameras have been put into place, in the last 15 years or so. It was not unusual to have people drive 150 km/h or so on the 110 speedways I was taking then, or 110 on the 90 countryside roads. Nowadays it seems like only few people break speed limits by such margins. In Belgium however (where I live now) there are speedcams as well but I notice a lot more speeding. I think the difference is at least partly due to the points permit. French drivers get a total of 12 points and lose at least 2 points from any speeding, while Belgians only get a fine, which probably doesn't give a lot of incentive to people who have enough money to just pay the fine.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    Of course not all speed cameras are bad. However in my country there is a lot of speed cameras right before a town ends - that means that people will start slowly speeding up from 50 km/h to 90 km/h and thus the camera will catch them going 60 km/h and give them a pointless fine. Same thing at the beginning - what is the point (except for money) in fining people who didn't brake soon/hard enough so they entered the town going 60 km/h? Why not place these cameras a little bit more inside the town?
  - afrisch 8y ago
    > and lose at least 2 points from any speeding (Nitpicking: actually only one point if driving less then 20 km/h above the limit.)
- sschueller 8y ago
  Speed cameras do work but the fines should be structured in a more fair way. "Rich" people with expensive cars don't care, same goes for parking fines.
- tbassetto 8y ago
  Meanwhile, most of Scandinavia determines speeding fines based on income.
  - Steer 8y ago
    Finland does. Sweden and Denmark do not. Norway I don't know, but suspect not. Source: I live in Sweden and recently got caught by a speed camera in Denmark.
    - lb1lf 8y ago
      Norway does not, either. We do issue fines for drunk driving based on your income, though.
- atoav 8y ago
  I lived near one of the major crossroads in one of the biggest German cities. The speed camera they put up made a change between waking up 4 times at night because of illegal street races and beeing able to sleep uninterrupted till the lorries start to drive in the early morning. I am not saying that this isn't a tool to generate revenue, but it certainly can make a difference for some of the people living there. However the weirdest thing is, when a street feels like you can drive 80km/h but you have to go 30km/h "just because". People don't like that. You shouldn't just put up signs and speed cameras on a perfectly fine street. You have to alter the street too. Make it narrower, etc. People will then drive slow without problems.
- Maakuth 8y ago
  Interestingly here in my native Finland, traffic tickets for major violations are progressive. So for a low income driver, major speeding might lose your license for months, but only cost you 150 €. The same infraction would cost a upper-middle income individual 15 000 €. Apparently the biggest speeding ticket written in here has been 170 000 €.
- woodpanel 8y ago
  As much I hate speed cameras (and as much as I sympathize with the yellow vests), they are usually more than justified. As a car driver you experience much less of the negative side-effects of your reckless driving than the rule-abiding drivers, cyclists, pedestrians and people living next to the streets. Look at speed cameras as police's automation solution for the problem of what to do when road signs aren't working. They are part of an evolution and if evolution has to account for destruction of these cameras then more nuanced models will get their market share (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luc-Z29KUfU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luc-Z29KUfU). Or we might end up with more Orwellian ways like autonomous traffic drones or the government having a direct link to your car, monitoring your every move, speed etc. So, yeah, I don't like em but I'm fine with speed cameras.
  - chrisper 8y ago
    You are assuming that everyone who gets caught by a camera is driving recklessly
- gadders 8y ago
  It's not true. They take from everyone, not just the poor.
seszett 8y ago
In some areas (more rural places, Vendée for example) it was 100% of them around Christmas. Their positions are all well known, so it's rather easy to get them all, and you are basically guaranteed impunity outside the largest cities since there will be no cameras to know who did it.
goldenkey 8y ago
Yellow vests were chosen as a symbol because, since 2008, a law had required all French motorists to have high-visibility vests in their vehicles when driving. As a result, reflective vests had become widely available, inexpensive, and recognisable. [1] Obligatory referenced video of the boxer vs police: https://youtu.be/iUw37-eNSxg https://youtu.be/iUw37-eNSxg [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement
- merb 8y ago
  From the video above, his statements are simply false.
  - goldenkey 8y ago
    It doesn't look like he was tear gassed - is that the statement you are referring to?
c1sc0 8y ago
I drove from Paris all the way to the Northern border and was amazed at not having seen a single working camera. Also every major road crossing had at least one guy in a yellow vest picketing. Must admit that I kinda supported the work they did on the cameras though.
eastendguy 8y ago
Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)
- erikb 8y ago
  I'd guess: They are symbol of order and a source of income for the police.
- Bayart 8y ago
  They're not located at areas where lower speeds would improve safety, they're located at areas where they make the most money. At least that's how people feel. I'm personally generally dubious on speed limit based policies.
  - megaremote 8y ago
    Rubbish. This is just a complete lie, spread by people not wanting to drive safely. It is up there with speed doesn't kill, and I drive better when I have had a few drinks.
    - Reelin 8y ago
      Nice one, trying to discredit your opponent by claiming they don't want to drive safely instead of actually responding to their (IMO legitimate) complaint. I imagine it depends on the jurisdiction, but personally I don't recall ever seeing a speed camera next to a school, near a city park, or across from a row of dense apartment buildings. Instead they always seem to be in fairly irrelevant places such as along highways where you cross from one jurisdiction into another. I'm sure that has absolutely nothing to do with revenue though.
  - arkh 8y ago
    The Montpellier area : 2x3 ways limited to 110km/h + 2x3 ways limited to 90 km/h. Road in perfect state. So let's put an average speed radar system.
CalRobert 8y ago
I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching surveillance state and took judgment away from officers. Then (and sorry, I know it's a tired thing to say) I had a kid. And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. It's enough to make you hate all drivers, though a moment of reflection reveals that even if 1 out of 100 drives dangerously, you'll remember that 1. We need car control every bit as much as gun control, and speed cameras are a big part of that. People die when drivers are left unchecked. Disproportionately, it's people not inside cars. Of course, people also die from the emissions coming out of the tailpipe, which is what these protesters seem to want to do freely. "Oh, your grandma has emphysema and lives near the road? Tough shit, I want my cheap diesel."
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  It's not that people want cheap diesel, they want their job and wages to match up with the cost of living. The proportion between wages and cost of living has gotten worse over time (while the ones responsible for that, lawmakers and employers, have enriched themselves).
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    Well from experience in the UK in the country there is a lot of using tax exempt red diesel (meant for tractors etc) in your diesel car.
- TomK32 8y ago
  As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane to overtake or slow down and wait for a good moment. I can't wait for laws to enforce speed limits via tech in modern cars.
  - _Microft 8y ago
    I also believe that people just do not know yet how much nicer and relaxing it will be to be automatically driven at the speed limit even if the street looks like you could go faster and then, as a driver, having to restrain one-self from going faster.
joelbluminator 8y ago
I guess that's lovely news if you're into anarchy, idk, not seeing the romance everyone else seems to see in this movement. France does need to reform hard though, they are right about that.
tomohawk 8y ago
Maybe there is hope for humanity after all.
Hoasi 8y ago
Welcome to civil non-compliance 2.0: vandalism as a form of protest. So now taxes perceived as unjust warrant the destruction of state property in retaliation. The French government has already stepped back before. But it never seems enough for protesters. It does look like a much bigger movement than the state had anticipated. If enough people stop paying taxes this will get serious.
- johnnyfaehell 8y ago
  > If enough people stop paying taxes this will get serious. Isn't most of the income tax taken directly from the employer. So only a few people will be able to avoid that. Then there is the lovely VAT tax, how are people going to avoid that one? In fact, I think the majority of taxes are transparent so you know you paid it but you don't really ever feel the pain of handing over the money.
  - Hoasi 8y ago
    > Isn't most of the income tax taken directly from the employer. So only a few people will be able to avoid that. Then there is the lovely VAT tax, how are people going to avoid that one? That's right. The French government probably feels lucky. Hence frustrated people resort to destroying things. And taxpayers will pay for the damages anyway. But still, you can see the pressure is real.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >Welcome to civil non-compliance 2.0: vandalism as a form of protest. So now taxes perceived as unjust warrant the destruction of state property in retaliation. A proud history of civil non-compliance, from the French Revolution, 1848, and the Commune to May 68, is what made France what it is, and helped usher us into the modern freedoms and rights.
  - cm2187 8y ago
    I don't think many french are proud of the commune, outside of the far left. Even the 1789 French revolution was a bloodshed that resulted into a even tougher dictatorship (the First Empire)...
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julsimon 8y ago
People hate them because it's yet another tax. 1 billion+ euros in 2018: https://www.lerevenu.com/breves/les-radars-automatiques-devraient-rapporter-plus-dun-milliard-deuros-en-2018 https://www.lerevenu.com/breves/les-radars-automatiques-devr... If you drive around in France, you quickly realise most of them are installed in profitable areas, not in dangerous areas. Looking forward to 100% of them being destroyed.
galfarragem 8y ago
Yellow Vests movement is not about speed cameras neither cheap oil: that's just the folklore part. Yellow Vests movement is a reaction from the silent parts of middle class that are the pillar of democracy: private sector employees. This (traditionally) silent crowd feels plundered by the government to support policies and lifestyles that they don't agree with.
Simulacra 8y ago
Not the heroes we deserve but the heroes need.
jasonkester 8y ago
It's worth noting that French speed cameras may work a bit differently to what Americans expect. They're a revenue generation mechanism over here, not a safety measure. Imagine you're driving down a divided motorway at freeway speed, when for no evident reason there's a single 90kph speed sign visible for a couple seconds behind a bridge. That's the signal that 100 yards further on there will be a hidden speed camera. Then the speed limit will go back up to 130kph immediately afterwards. So when you move to a new area you find out about these things when a series of fines arrive in the mail. Often for being recorded going 91kph in that 90 zone. It's maddening as a safe driver, having to keep constantly alert and ready to slam on the brakes going down any unfamiliar piece of road. I'm not overly saddened to hear there are fewer of those things around for a while.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- m_t 8y ago
  > It's maddening as a safe driver, having to keep constantly alert and ready to slam on the brakes going down any unfamiliar piece of road. You've just described what being a safer driver is. You _have to_ be alert at all times, and you _have to_ be ready to brake if something suddenly happens.
chippy 8y ago
Would you rather start an outdoors civil protest in the Winter or the Summer? Its been proposed that Thatcher allowed the miners strike to occur but only during the Summer when the effects of lack of coal (power cuts) would be less. There's some speculation that Occupy Wall Street collapsed in the bitter cold. Many UK riots seem to happen on warm summer nights. Has anyone done an research or written about this? Can we expect the Yellow Vests to be less successful in this winter than in the summer?

93 points by tomerbd 8y ago

Next they will complain about how road accidents have increased and how the government is incompetent

"Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor." This is also the case in Central and Eastern Europe. EDIT: Please read what I cited properly. The citation includes the "Some protesters feel ..." part, which is what I meant - that many people in central and eastern Europe feel the same, not that I feel they're right (what I think is irrelevant).

aerodog 8y ago
In the Bay Area (San Francisco etc.), it's not necessarily "from the poor", but I've been punished in excess of $500 for not coming to a complete stop at a red light (only having slowed down). It's like this everywhere - it's a tool for extortion. And it's terrible.
- jedberg 8y ago
  Usually you can just ignore those tickets. They can't prove you got the ticket, nor can they prove you were driving. And if they send it to a collection agency, you can demand proof of the debt and they will usually just give up. But yeah, they're installed by 3rd parties and are usually just there to make money.
- CalRobert 8y ago
  California stops are very dangerous to pedestrians.
D_Guidi 8y ago
the poor simply can respect the rules like the rich, right?
- zuppy 8y ago
  you got it wrong: the rich will pay, but that amount means nothing to them.
  - gambiting 8y ago
    That's where the penalty points come in - you can't pay your way out of losing your licence once you get enough of them. The fine might be meaningless but having to stop driving for 12 months is not.
    - naz 8y ago
      Penalty points also disproportionately affect the poor, who are more likely to depend on their driving license for their income
      - gambiting 8y ago
        So what do you propose? That we punish people who put others in danger less because they are poor? Someone moving at 100km/h through a city isn't any less likely to kill someone when hit just because they are poor. They aren't any less of a danger just because they have a family that depends on them. Someone they hit won't be any less dead because the driver has 5 children and mountains of debt.
        TomMarius 8y ago
        > Someone moving at 100km/h through a city isn't any less likely to kill someone when hit just because they are poor. Actually we could argue that it's more likely due to the poor average condition and old age of their cars. A new Mercedes brakes much better than a 20 year old Skoda and usually has auto-braking systems and braking force enhancers. However "going through a city" is very general. There are several actual highways (by law as well as by construction standards) in Prague going through the city where the speed limit (70 km/h) is frequently broken with no possible victims - the exact same road has 130 km/h limit outside the city.
gambiting 8y ago
I have very mixed feelings about this. I have been caught by a money-making camera myself(middle of a forest in rural Poland, far away from any houses, and yet it was still a "built-up" area with speed limit of 50km/h, because technically there wasn't a sign ending it after leaving the last town few km back), but on the other hand, there's so many people speeding in cities, frequently doing 100km/h or above on very busy streets, that I am all for building more speed cameras in those places. And then: " solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor." Unless someone can prove a connection that someone poor is more likely to speed, then I don't see how that's true. I think the opposite was proven recently, no? That rich people with expensive cars are more likely to disobey traffic laws.
- sooheon 8y ago
  Let's assume poor and rich are equally likely to speed (except the rich who only move in limos or helis). Flat fees still hurt the poor more, because they cut into living expenses. To be truly egalitarian, these fees should be a % of income and a % of wealth.
  - atoav 8y ago
    Which would be fair, because the goal of these things is to avoid misbehaviour with potentially deadly consequences. There is no reason someone poor should pay 40% of their monthly paycheck while someone rich pays with <1% of their montly paycheck. This is why in a lot of european nations on top of the fines you have a point-based system – if you have three points you get your driving license revoked and you will have it revoked for some time and then you have to do some driving tests again. This actually works quite well in preventing bad behaviour (assuming you have a non corrupt police), but one could argue that it is a much, much worse punishment to the poor again (it can potentially destroy them economically, including the loss of income source etc).
  - ekingr 8y ago
    That is why there is also (in France at least) a system of points on the driving license. Everybody has the same count (12) at the beginning and will lose an equal amount in case of an infraction. If you lose all of them your license is suspended.
_Microft 8y ago
Speed cameras are not toll booths. They do not take money from people indiscriminately but only from the ones that think that they can get away with speeding. (Unfortunately speeding seems almost necessary for e.g. delivery drivers which are in turn not the most well-paid jobs.) Problem is rather how the fines are structured. 50€ might be a disaster for someone living on welfare while it's pocket change for others. If I remember correctly Finland countered this by making traffic fines daily rates of income.
seszett 8y ago
Yes, many people think that but for my part, I have really noticed a big decrease in speeding since these fixed speed cameras have been put into place, in the last 15 years or so. It was not unusual to have people drive 150 km/h or so on the 110 speedways I was taking then, or 110 on the 90 countryside roads. Nowadays it seems like only few people break speed limits by such margins. In Belgium however (where I live now) there are speedcams as well but I notice a lot more speeding. I think the difference is at least partly due to the points permit. French drivers get a total of 12 points and lose at least 2 points from any speeding, while Belgians only get a fine, which probably doesn't give a lot of incentive to people who have enough money to just pay the fine.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  Of course not all speed cameras are bad. However in my country there is a lot of speed cameras right before a town ends - that means that people will start slowly speeding up from 50 km/h to 90 km/h and thus the camera will catch them going 60 km/h and give them a pointless fine. Same thing at the beginning - what is the point (except for money) in fining people who didn't brake soon/hard enough so they entered the town going 60 km/h? Why not place these cameras a little bit more inside the town?
- afrisch 8y ago
  > and lose at least 2 points from any speeding (Nitpicking: actually only one point if driving less then 20 km/h above the limit.)
sschueller 8y ago
Speed cameras do work but the fines should be structured in a more fair way. "Rich" people with expensive cars don't care, same goes for parking fines.
tbassetto 8y ago
Meanwhile, most of Scandinavia determines speeding fines based on income.
- Steer 8y ago
  Finland does. Sweden and Denmark do not. Norway I don't know, but suspect not. Source: I live in Sweden and recently got caught by a speed camera in Denmark.
  - lb1lf 8y ago
    Norway does not, either. We do issue fines for drunk driving based on your income, though.
atoav 8y ago
I lived near one of the major crossroads in one of the biggest German cities. The speed camera they put up made a change between waking up 4 times at night because of illegal street races and beeing able to sleep uninterrupted till the lorries start to drive in the early morning. I am not saying that this isn't a tool to generate revenue, but it certainly can make a difference for some of the people living there. However the weirdest thing is, when a street feels like you can drive 80km/h but you have to go 30km/h "just because". People don't like that. You shouldn't just put up signs and speed cameras on a perfectly fine street. You have to alter the street too. Make it narrower, etc. People will then drive slow without problems.
Maakuth 8y ago
Interestingly here in my native Finland, traffic tickets for major violations are progressive. So for a low income driver, major speeding might lose your license for months, but only cost you 150 €. The same infraction would cost a upper-middle income individual 15 000 €. Apparently the biggest speeding ticket written in here has been 170 000 €.
woodpanel 8y ago
As much I hate speed cameras (and as much as I sympathize with the yellow vests), they are usually more than justified. As a car driver you experience much less of the negative side-effects of your reckless driving than the rule-abiding drivers, cyclists, pedestrians and people living next to the streets. Look at speed cameras as police's automation solution for the problem of what to do when road signs aren't working. They are part of an evolution and if evolution has to account for destruction of these cameras then more nuanced models will get their market share (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luc-Z29KUfU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luc-Z29KUfU). Or we might end up with more Orwellian ways like autonomous traffic drones or the government having a direct link to your car, monitoring your every move, speed etc. So, yeah, I don't like em but I'm fine with speed cameras.
- chrisper 8y ago
  You are assuming that everyone who gets caught by a camera is driving recklessly
gadders 8y ago
It's not true. They take from everyone, not just the poor.

seszett 8y ago

In some areas (more rural places, Vendée for example) it was 100% of them around Christmas. Their positions are all well known, so it's rather easy to get them all, and you are basically guaranteed impunity outside the largest cities since there will be no cameras to know who did it.

goldenkey 8y ago

Yellow vests were chosen as a symbol because, since 2008, a law had required all French motorists to have high-visibility vests in their vehicles when driving. As a result, reflective vests had become widely available, inexpensive, and recognisable. [1] Obligatory referenced video of the boxer vs police: https://youtu.be/iUw37-eNSxg https://youtu.be/iUw37-eNSxg [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement

merb 8y ago
From the video above, his statements are simply false.
- goldenkey 8y ago
  It doesn't look like he was tear gassed - is that the statement you are referring to?

c1sc0 8y ago

I drove from Paris all the way to the Northern border and was amazed at not having seen a single working camera. Also every major road crossing had at least one guy in a yellow vest picketing. Must admit that I kinda supported the work they did on the cameras though.

eastendguy 8y ago

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

erikb 8y ago
I'd guess: They are symbol of order and a source of income for the police.
Bayart 8y ago
They're not located at areas where lower speeds would improve safety, they're located at areas where they make the most money. At least that's how people feel. I'm personally generally dubious on speed limit based policies.
- megaremote 8y ago
  Rubbish. This is just a complete lie, spread by people not wanting to drive safely. It is up there with speed doesn't kill, and I drive better when I have had a few drinks.
  - Reelin 8y ago
    Nice one, trying to discredit your opponent by claiming they don't want to drive safely instead of actually responding to their (IMO legitimate) complaint. I imagine it depends on the jurisdiction, but personally I don't recall ever seeing a speed camera next to a school, near a city park, or across from a row of dense apartment buildings. Instead they always seem to be in fairly irrelevant places such as along highways where you cross from one jurisdiction into another. I'm sure that has absolutely nothing to do with revenue though.
- arkh 8y ago
  The Montpellier area : 2x3 ways limited to 110km/h + 2x3 ways limited to 90 km/h. Road in perfect state. So let's put an average speed radar system.

CalRobert 8y ago

I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching surveillance state and took judgment away from officers. Then (and sorry, I know it's a tired thing to say) I had a kid. And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. It's enough to make you hate all drivers, though a moment of reflection reveals that even if 1 out of 100 drives dangerously, you'll remember that 1. We need car control every bit as much as gun control, and speed cameras are a big part of that. People die when drivers are left unchecked. Disproportionately, it's people not inside cars. Of course, people also die from the emissions coming out of the tailpipe, which is what these protesters seem to want to do freely. "Oh, your grandma has emphysema and lives near the road? Tough shit, I want my cheap diesel."

Cthulhu_ 8y ago
It's not that people want cheap diesel, they want their job and wages to match up with the cost of living. The proportion between wages and cost of living has gotten worse over time (while the ones responsible for that, lawmakers and employers, have enriched themselves).
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  Well from experience in the UK in the country there is a lot of using tax exempt red diesel (meant for tractors etc) in your diesel car.
TomK32 8y ago
As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane to overtake or slow down and wait for a good moment. I can't wait for laws to enforce speed limits via tech in modern cars.
- _Microft 8y ago
  I also believe that people just do not know yet how much nicer and relaxing it will be to be automatically driven at the speed limit even if the street looks like you could go faster and then, as a driver, having to restrain one-self from going faster.

joelbluminator 8y ago

I guess that's lovely news if you're into anarchy, idk, not seeing the romance everyone else seems to see in this movement. France does need to reform hard though, they are right about that.

tomohawk 8y ago

Maybe there is hope for humanity after all.

Hoasi 8y ago

Welcome to civil non-compliance 2.0: vandalism as a form of protest. So now taxes perceived as unjust warrant the destruction of state property in retaliation. The French government has already stepped back before. But it never seems enough for protesters. It does look like a much bigger movement than the state had anticipated. If enough people stop paying taxes this will get serious.

johnnyfaehell 8y ago
> If enough people stop paying taxes this will get serious. Isn't most of the income tax taken directly from the employer. So only a few people will be able to avoid that. Then there is the lovely VAT tax, how are people going to avoid that one? In fact, I think the majority of taxes are transparent so you know you paid it but you don't really ever feel the pain of handing over the money.
- Hoasi 8y ago
  > Isn't most of the income tax taken directly from the employer. So only a few people will be able to avoid that. Then there is the lovely VAT tax, how are people going to avoid that one? That's right. The French government probably feels lucky. Hence frustrated people resort to destroying things. And taxpayers will pay for the damages anyway. But still, you can see the pressure is real.
coldtea 8y ago
>Welcome to civil non-compliance 2.0: vandalism as a form of protest. So now taxes perceived as unjust warrant the destruction of state property in retaliation. A proud history of civil non-compliance, from the French Revolution, 1848, and the Commune to May 68, is what made France what it is, and helped usher us into the modern freedoms and rights.
- cm2187 8y ago
  I don't think many french are proud of the commune, outside of the far left. Even the 1789 French revolution was a bloodshed that resulted into a even tougher dictatorship (the First Empire)...

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julsimon 8y ago

People hate them because it's yet another tax. 1 billion+ euros in 2018: https://www.lerevenu.com/breves/les-radars-automatiques-devraient-rapporter-plus-dun-milliard-deuros-en-2018 https://www.lerevenu.com/breves/les-radars-automatiques-devr... If you drive around in France, you quickly realise most of them are installed in profitable areas, not in dangerous areas. Looking forward to 100% of them being destroyed.

galfarragem 8y ago

Yellow Vests movement is not about speed cameras neither cheap oil: that's just the folklore part. Yellow Vests movement is a reaction from the silent parts of middle class that are the pillar of democracy: private sector employees. This (traditionally) silent crowd feels plundered by the government to support policies and lifestyles that they don't agree with.

Simulacra 8y ago

Not the heroes we deserve but the heroes need.

jasonkester 8y ago

It's worth noting that French speed cameras may work a bit differently to what Americans expect. They're a revenue generation mechanism over here, not a safety measure. Imagine you're driving down a divided motorway at freeway speed, when for no evident reason there's a single 90kph speed sign visible for a couple seconds behind a bridge. That's the signal that 100 yards further on there will be a hidden speed camera. Then the speed limit will go back up to 130kph immediately afterwards. So when you move to a new area you find out about these things when a series of fines arrive in the mail. Often for being recorded going 91kph in that 90 zone. It's maddening as a safe driver, having to keep constantly alert and ready to slam on the brakes going down any unfamiliar piece of road. I'm not overly saddened to hear there are fewer of those things around for a while.

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m_t 8y ago
> It's maddening as a safe driver, having to keep constantly alert and ready to slam on the brakes going down any unfamiliar piece of road. You've just described what being a safer driver is. You _have to_ be alert at all times, and you _have to_ be ready to brake if something suddenly happens.

chippy 8y ago

Would you rather start an outdoors civil protest in the Winter or the Summer? Its been proposed that Thatcher allowed the miners strike to occur but only during the Summer when the effects of lack of coal (power cuts) would be less. There's some speculation that Occupy Wall Street collapsed in the bitter cold. Many UK riots seem to happen on warm summer nights. Has anyone done an research or written about this? Can we expect the Yellow Vests to be less successful in this winter than in the summer?