7 ms·

I really think the path forward for a majority of people is plug-in hybrids. Most people have daily commutes under 50mi round trip. For those people, a car with

by ajford 8y ago

I really think the path forward for a majority of people is plug-in hybrids. Most people have daily commutes under 50mi round trip. For those people, a car with 50-80mi electric range, then a reduced fuel range is perfect. My spouse drives a Chevy Volt (a sadly now discontinued model), which works well for her 40mi daily commute. Most weeks, the car never fires up the ICE, and we've put probably less than 4 gallons in the last two months. However, we're still able to make long-distance trips with the 7-8 gallon gas tank that gets us around 300 miles with the ~40MPG efficiency of the ICE. That completely eliminates range anxiety, since once the EV range has run out, you still have a perfectly normal car, and can refuel at any station. And with the spare factory EVSE in the trunk, I can generally recharge at my destination when staying overnight.

rip_netrunner 8y ago
It's just a lot of extra engineering and cost to have two discrete motors in a car. You're probably going to have a seriously underpowered ICE in it as well since available speeds are reduced which makes it less suitable to highway driving. Not to mention the additional costs on maintaining both of those engines.
- ghaff 8y ago
  And yet Prius plugin hybrid sales are up almost 50% YoY. Pure EVs are probably the future at some point. But in the here and now, plugin hybrids are the pragmatic choice for a lot of people who mostly drive shorter distances and can charge at home but do longer trips also.
- maxsilver 8y ago
  > You're probably going to have a seriously underpowered ICE in it as well (snip) which makes it less suitable to highway driving Why? You can put a powerful ICE in it just as easily. My Chevy Volt can easily do 90+mph on the freeway, irregardless of whether it's on battery or gasoline. (Of course, I've never personally verified that...)
- StrictDabbler 8y ago
  That's why the Volt didn't have an ICE, it had a gas-powered generator to run the electric motors. It's such a smart design that it's a crime they're killing the line.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    That's still an ICE though.
  - stetrain 8y ago
    It had an ICE-powered generator that could also be connected via clutches directly to the drivetrain for better efficiency at highway speeds. ICE -> Generator -> Inverter -> Electric Motor is worse for efficiency at constant speed on the highway than just connecting the ICE directly to the wheels. https://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht https://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-en...
    - TylerE 8y ago
      OTOH going the generator route allows you to avoid quite a bit of drivetrain - a transmission, differential(s), etc. Wouldn't surprise me if actual efficiency comes quite close considering you shed 200lbs or so of weight. More than that if AWD.
  - SeanLuke 8y ago
    The Volt's gas engine also engages directly with the wheels under some circumstances.
ghaff 8y ago
For 2-car households, an EV car and an ICE (or plugin hybrid) will increasingly make a lot of sense, especially if the ICE is a bigger vehicle of the sort that people often want for roadtrips. If there's just one car, my experiences may be flavored by the fact that I go to some relatively remote areas, but I just don't see an EV making sense for many people. I don't see renting a car even every few months because I need it for a wilderness trip. FWIW, Prius plug-in hybrid sales seem to be quite strong. It's not really an elegant solution compared to an EV but it's probably pragmatic.
- gav 8y ago
  I want to think that the future involves avoiding having to own bigger cars entirely and lease/rent an EV car plus credits for short-term rentals of different vehicles when needed. Need a big SUV for skiing or camping? Swap your small EV for the weekend. There's too many people I know that make vehicle purchasing decisions based on edge cases to avoid having to rent something different when they actually need it. We need to figure out how to give up large SUVs that only drive around a single passenger.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    That's only because you know wealth/high class people. I assure you there are plenty of people who will cram a family of five in a compact for a road trip, haul plywood on the roof of a sedan, throw a sofa in/on a station wagon, haul gravel with a compact pickup, etc, etc. They're just not people who are employed by tech companies shop at whole foods and browse HN. Shoehorning a vehicle into a use case for which it is a less than perfect fit is not how white collar professionals making tech money are expected to act. Vehicle suitability for any given task is inversely proportional to the average net worth of the occupants. The only way you get a free pass is if the vehicle is environmentally friendly and plastered in the kind of bumper stickers you expect on the back of a university professor's EV conversion project car. Then you're just "eccentric" and not low class.
    - nradov 8y ago
      Maybe that's common in other countries, but in the US I see a lot of low wage workers driving large, practical vehicles like older model F150s and Chevy Tahoes. Sure they burn a lot of gas, but they can do everything and are relatively easy to repair.

by ajford 8y ago

rip_netrunner 8y ago

It's just a lot of extra engineering and cost to have two discrete motors in a car. You're probably going to have a seriously underpowered ICE in it as well since available speeds are reduced which makes it less suitable to highway driving. Not to mention the additional costs on maintaining both of those engines.

ghaff 8y ago
And yet Prius plugin hybrid sales are up almost 50% YoY. Pure EVs are probably the future at some point. But in the here and now, plugin hybrids are the pragmatic choice for a lot of people who mostly drive shorter distances and can charge at home but do longer trips also.
maxsilver 8y ago
> You're probably going to have a seriously underpowered ICE in it as well (snip) which makes it less suitable to highway driving Why? You can put a powerful ICE in it just as easily. My Chevy Volt can easily do 90+mph on the freeway, irregardless of whether it's on battery or gasoline. (Of course, I've never personally verified that...)
StrictDabbler 8y ago
That's why the Volt didn't have an ICE, it had a gas-powered generator to run the electric motors. It's such a smart design that it's a crime they're killing the line.
- ams6110 8y ago
  That's still an ICE though.
- stetrain 8y ago
  It had an ICE-powered generator that could also be connected via clutches directly to the drivetrain for better efficiency at highway speeds. ICE -> Generator -> Inverter -> Electric Motor is worse for efficiency at constant speed on the highway than just connecting the ICE directly to the wheels. https://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht https://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-en...
  - TylerE 8y ago
    OTOH going the generator route allows you to avoid quite a bit of drivetrain - a transmission, differential(s), etc. Wouldn't surprise me if actual efficiency comes quite close considering you shed 200lbs or so of weight. More than that if AWD.
- SeanLuke 8y ago
  The Volt's gas engine also engages directly with the wheels under some circumstances.

ghaff 8y ago

For 2-car households, an EV car and an ICE (or plugin hybrid) will increasingly make a lot of sense, especially if the ICE is a bigger vehicle of the sort that people often want for roadtrips. If there's just one car, my experiences may be flavored by the fact that I go to some relatively remote areas, but I just don't see an EV making sense for many people. I don't see renting a car even every few months because I need it for a wilderness trip. FWIW, Prius plug-in hybrid sales seem to be quite strong. It's not really an elegant solution compared to an EV but it's probably pragmatic.

gav 8y ago
I want to think that the future involves avoiding having to own bigger cars entirely and lease/rent an EV car plus credits for short-term rentals of different vehicles when needed. Need a big SUV for skiing or camping? Swap your small EV for the weekend. There's too many people I know that make vehicle purchasing decisions based on edge cases to avoid having to rent something different when they actually need it. We need to figure out how to give up large SUVs that only drive around a single passenger.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  That's only because you know wealth/high class people. I assure you there are plenty of people who will cram a family of five in a compact for a road trip, haul plywood on the roof of a sedan, throw a sofa in/on a station wagon, haul gravel with a compact pickup, etc, etc. They're just not people who are employed by tech companies shop at whole foods and browse HN. Shoehorning a vehicle into a use case for which it is a less than perfect fit is not how white collar professionals making tech money are expected to act. Vehicle suitability for any given task is inversely proportional to the average net worth of the occupants. The only way you get a free pass is if the vehicle is environmentally friendly and plastered in the kind of bumper stickers you expect on the back of a university professor's EV conversion project car. Then you're just "eccentric" and not low class.
  - nradov 8y ago
    Maybe that's common in other countries, but in the US I see a lot of low wage workers driving large, practical vehicles like older model F150s and Chevy Tahoes. Sure they burn a lot of gas, but they can do everything and are relatively easy to repair.