6 ms·

This is so tragic. I wonder if legalizing the recreational use of pot nationally will take enough of the profits out of it to reduce demand for this kind of ill

This is so tragic. I wonder if legalizing the recreational use of pot nationally will take enough of the profits out of it to reduce demand for this kind of illegal grow site.

dkoubsky 8y ago
Well certainly nobody feels its necessary to run illegal corn growing operations in national parks. But as long as legalized drugs have a significant price premium over black market drugs, then incentives for this behavior would still be in place.
- wybiral 8y ago
  Counter point: I can probably brew alcohol for cheaper than I can buy it. But the convenience, availability, and legality makes up for the cost.
  - imbusy111 8y ago
    I doubt you can, considering your opportunity cost.
  - Varcht 8y ago
    Counter Counter Point: The supply chain has been a place for a long time and is pretty convenient, I'd say even more so.
  - jstanley 8y ago
    It's not illegal to brew your own alcohol, and it's easy to get started, it's just difficult and time-consuming to do well. (Although it is illegal to distill without a licence).
    - Johnny555 8y ago
      It's not illegal to grow marijuana in my state, and while I know quite a few people that use marijuana recreationally or medically, I only know of a few that grow it themselves even though it's not particularly difficult.
      - yellowbuilding 8y ago
        It’s actually laughably easy. I did it once. I had zero gardening experience but did this indoors in a walk-in closet. It probably took a total of a regular work week of actual work and a few days of research beforehand, and I got over 1/4 lb. and was very high quality. But the main thing I got from it was a love of gardening haha.
  - drooogs 8y ago
    alcohol is a bit different than other drugs in that people also appreciate it as a culinary experience. most users of other drugs are not willing to pay 2-10x as much for the same drug in a better tasting form.
    - wybiral 8y ago
      Having been to a legal marijuana shop and having had several pothead friends growing up I can confirm that marijuana users have all kinds of appreciation for culinary aspects of their drug. That's obviously different with pharma drugs, but for plants I think there's a comparison.
      - drooogs 8y ago
        honestly I would believe this, but in my experience people are spending the extra money to get strains that are either more potent or have different subjective effects. I've never known anyone who would pay $100 for a gram just for it to taste good.
    - alphabettsy 8y ago
      Lots and lots of stoners would disagree with you. Maybe this isn’t true for some things, but I remembers when ecstasy was really popular hearing people talk about different kinds.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    As far as I know making alcohol is much more work than growing weed though.
    - wybiral 8y ago
      Alcohol is really easy to brew and relatively easy to distill. Now, making good alcohol is another story. But for that matter, growing good weed is another story and properly dry-curing it is too (it's not as simple as dehydrating the crap out of it to get good pot for smoking).
      - yellowbuilding 8y ago
        Exactly. Growing extremely high quality weed is a piece of cake. The plant does all the work, and all you have to pay it is light and water (a large amount). Those things are mostly invincible.
    - lsc 8y ago
      leave juice out in an area with yeast (so... almost anywhere) and the juice will ferment. You'll get more alcohol faster if you dump in some yeast (even the stuff for making bread would work, if we are trying to do this without anything designed to make alcohol) It probably will be super gross at this point, but will get you drunk. Search amazon for 'countertop water distiller' for under a hundred bucks, they'll ship you a "countertop water distiller" - run your spoilt juice through that thing a few times, and i'm not saying it will be good vodka; it won't... but it will be mostly alcohol, and it will be something you could probably choke down when mixed with something that tastes strong enough. I mean, making booze that tastes good, that's an art. but if you just wanna get drunk? Probably easier than making decent bread.
- joe_the_user 8y ago
  Well, illegal growing in a state where marijuana is legal seems strange but if you read the article, the grows described here are primarily targeting the illegal markets in other states.
  - scruple 8y ago
    That isn't entirely true. There's a thriving black and grey market around THC oil today, in particular, in California. Counterfeits are a well-known problem. It's not improbable to think that the oil for those counterfeits could come from illegal grow ops.
- cf498 8y ago
  Well we dont really see illegal tobacco growing operations despite the significant tax burden. The significant price premium must be significantly above the cost of production.
  - p1necone 8y ago
    The stigma against smoking tobacco is increasing more and more though, and there is an increasingly popular and cheaper nicotine alternative in vaping.
  - thanksDr 8y ago
    We do see black market tobacco sales, however.
    - cf498 8y ago
      But only smuggled. We also dont see commercially viable Heroin production and poppy cultivation in the destination countries, despite the favorable climate. Growing and producing some drugs inland is just not a viable option, despite an significant price premium caused by smuggling.
Varcht 8y ago
Anecdotally... Many of my neighbors started smoking when it was legalized here. Neighbors on both sides toke pretty much every day in their backyards. Well actually at first they vaped mostly, that wasn't so noxious, just occasionally caught a whiff of it. Now it seems they have figured out they can buy weed from the resident dealer for a lot less without all those pesky taxes, at least I see them talking to him a lot more often these days.
hermitdev 8y ago
I could think you could look at the end of Prohibition as a similar case study. Is there still illegal alcohol? For sure. But, it is far less profitable and far less violent than it was during Prohibition. That said, I'm fine with legalizing marijuana. Not so much so with the likes of cocaine, meth or heroine. Soft drugs, sure, hard drugs, keep a leash on it.
- drooogs 8y ago
  > That said, I'm fine with legalizing marijuana. Not so much so with the likes of cocaine, meth or heroine. Soft drugs, sure, hard drugs, keep a leash on it. I realize that this is becoming a popular opinion, but why? I almost understand the full prohibition mindset more. as long as there are any illegal drugs with strong demand, people are going to get killed over it. legalizing weed isn't going to make much difference; there's way more money in the hard stuff. so I gotta ask, do you think you will personally be hurt if hard drugs are legal (or even decriminalized), or are you taking it upon yourself to protect other people from themselves?
  - dtwest 8y ago
    Is it wrong to want the others around you to not have access to drugs that can destroy their lives? I'm of the legalize everything mindset, but heroin (and fentanyl) have killed many people I personally know. Weed has not. It is not illogical for people to want to treat them differently.
    - betenoire 8y ago
      Not wrong at all, but not wanting others to have access to drugs and supporting laws that marginally accomplish it at great cost (esp. to other people who may not be around you) are two different things.
    - drooogs 8y ago
      > Is it wrong to want the others around you to not have access to drugs that can destroy their lives? it's fine for you to want that; it's not okay for you to support the use of state violence to make it so. I also have lost many friends and years of my own life to heroin. worrying about the cops didn't help any of us.

This is so tragic. I wonder if legalizing the recreational use of pot nationally will take enough of the profits out of it to reduce demand for this kind of illegal grow site.

dkoubsky 8y ago

Well certainly nobody feels its necessary to run illegal corn growing operations in national parks. But as long as legalized drugs have a significant price premium over black market drugs, then incentives for this behavior would still be in place.

wybiral 8y ago
Counter point: I can probably brew alcohol for cheaper than I can buy it. But the convenience, availability, and legality makes up for the cost.
- imbusy111 8y ago
  I doubt you can, considering your opportunity cost.
- Varcht 8y ago
  Counter Counter Point: The supply chain has been a place for a long time and is pretty convenient, I'd say even more so.
- jstanley 8y ago
  It's not illegal to brew your own alcohol, and it's easy to get started, it's just difficult and time-consuming to do well. (Although it is illegal to distill without a licence).
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    It's not illegal to grow marijuana in my state, and while I know quite a few people that use marijuana recreationally or medically, I only know of a few that grow it themselves even though it's not particularly difficult.
    - yellowbuilding 8y ago
      It’s actually laughably easy. I did it once. I had zero gardening experience but did this indoors in a walk-in closet. It probably took a total of a regular work week of actual work and a few days of research beforehand, and I got over 1/4 lb. and was very high quality. But the main thing I got from it was a love of gardening haha.
- drooogs 8y ago
  alcohol is a bit different than other drugs in that people also appreciate it as a culinary experience. most users of other drugs are not willing to pay 2-10x as much for the same drug in a better tasting form.
  - wybiral 8y ago
    Having been to a legal marijuana shop and having had several pothead friends growing up I can confirm that marijuana users have all kinds of appreciation for culinary aspects of their drug. That's obviously different with pharma drugs, but for plants I think there's a comparison.
    - drooogs 8y ago
      honestly I would believe this, but in my experience people are spending the extra money to get strains that are either more potent or have different subjective effects. I've never known anyone who would pay $100 for a gram just for it to taste good.
  - alphabettsy 8y ago
    Lots and lots of stoners would disagree with you. Maybe this isn’t true for some things, but I remembers when ecstasy was really popular hearing people talk about different kinds.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  As far as I know making alcohol is much more work than growing weed though.
  - wybiral 8y ago
    Alcohol is really easy to brew and relatively easy to distill. Now, making good alcohol is another story. But for that matter, growing good weed is another story and properly dry-curing it is too (it's not as simple as dehydrating the crap out of it to get good pot for smoking).
    - yellowbuilding 8y ago
      Exactly. Growing extremely high quality weed is a piece of cake. The plant does all the work, and all you have to pay it is light and water (a large amount). Those things are mostly invincible.
  - lsc 8y ago
    leave juice out in an area with yeast (so... almost anywhere) and the juice will ferment. You'll get more alcohol faster if you dump in some yeast (even the stuff for making bread would work, if we are trying to do this without anything designed to make alcohol) It probably will be super gross at this point, but will get you drunk. Search amazon for 'countertop water distiller' for under a hundred bucks, they'll ship you a "countertop water distiller" - run your spoilt juice through that thing a few times, and i'm not saying it will be good vodka; it won't... but it will be mostly alcohol, and it will be something you could probably choke down when mixed with something that tastes strong enough. I mean, making booze that tastes good, that's an art. but if you just wanna get drunk? Probably easier than making decent bread.
joe_the_user 8y ago
Well, illegal growing in a state where marijuana is legal seems strange but if you read the article, the grows described here are primarily targeting the illegal markets in other states.
- scruple 8y ago
  That isn't entirely true. There's a thriving black and grey market around THC oil today, in particular, in California. Counterfeits are a well-known problem. It's not improbable to think that the oil for those counterfeits could come from illegal grow ops.
cf498 8y ago
Well we dont really see illegal tobacco growing operations despite the significant tax burden. The significant price premium must be significantly above the cost of production.
- p1necone 8y ago
  The stigma against smoking tobacco is increasing more and more though, and there is an increasingly popular and cheaper nicotine alternative in vaping.
- thanksDr 8y ago
  We do see black market tobacco sales, however.
  - cf498 8y ago
    But only smuggled. We also dont see commercially viable Heroin production and poppy cultivation in the destination countries, despite the favorable climate. Growing and producing some drugs inland is just not a viable option, despite an significant price premium caused by smuggling.

Varcht 8y ago

Anecdotally... Many of my neighbors started smoking when it was legalized here. Neighbors on both sides toke pretty much every day in their backyards. Well actually at first they vaped mostly, that wasn't so noxious, just occasionally caught a whiff of it. Now it seems they have figured out they can buy weed from the resident dealer for a lot less without all those pesky taxes, at least I see them talking to him a lot more often these days.

hermitdev 8y ago

I could think you could look at the end of Prohibition as a similar case study. Is there still illegal alcohol? For sure. But, it is far less profitable and far less violent than it was during Prohibition. That said, I'm fine with legalizing marijuana. Not so much so with the likes of cocaine, meth or heroine. Soft drugs, sure, hard drugs, keep a leash on it.

drooogs 8y ago
> That said, I'm fine with legalizing marijuana. Not so much so with the likes of cocaine, meth or heroine. Soft drugs, sure, hard drugs, keep a leash on it. I realize that this is becoming a popular opinion, but why? I almost understand the full prohibition mindset more. as long as there are any illegal drugs with strong demand, people are going to get killed over it. legalizing weed isn't going to make much difference; there's way more money in the hard stuff. so I gotta ask, do you think you will personally be hurt if hard drugs are legal (or even decriminalized), or are you taking it upon yourself to protect other people from themselves?
- dtwest 8y ago
  Is it wrong to want the others around you to not have access to drugs that can destroy their lives? I'm of the legalize everything mindset, but heroin (and fentanyl) have killed many people I personally know. Weed has not. It is not illogical for people to want to treat them differently.
  - betenoire 8y ago
    Not wrong at all, but not wanting others to have access to drugs and supporting laws that marginally accomplish it at great cost (esp. to other people who may not be around you) are two different things.
  - drooogs 8y ago
    > Is it wrong to want the others around you to not have access to drugs that can destroy their lives? it's fine for you to want that; it's not okay for you to support the use of state violence to make it so. I also have lost many friends and years of my own life to heroin. worrying about the cops didn't help any of us.