6 ms·

I can't read TFA, but wanted to note that there's an interesting statistic in the book Why We Sleep: Something like 30% of the population are hard-wired to be "

I can't read TFA, but wanted to note that there's an interesting statistic in the book Why We Sleep: Something like 30% of the population are hard-wired to be "night owls" and 20% early risers. The author hypothesized that this may be an evolutionary survival mechanism that allowed bands of humans to always have people who were awake or more likely to wake quickly if threatened after dark or in the early morning. For the natural night owls (I am one) the power of a slow morning is just the way we roll. I am so much more productive at 9pm than 9am, and have reworked my daily schedule accordingly.

cmg 8y ago
Here's a non-paywall version of it: https://outline.com/7WuvGD https://outline.com/7WuvGD
VectorLock 8y ago
I always wondered if my night owl tendencies were nature or nurture (staying up late for inexpensive long distance and calling night-only BBSes) and I've gravitated to a career that embraces that mode (SRE, Operations, on-call positions) . It seems that society seems to value the 'get up early' more than the 'stay up late' ability.
- ilamont 8y ago
  That's right. That may a holdover from our agrarian roots, when people had to get up early to milk the cows or work in the fields before it got too hot. It's become institutionalized in modern society ("9 to 5", schools scheduled in the morning and early afternoon, etc.)
hexo 8y ago
I'm unemployable just because of this. I cannot "work" in the morning or when my employer thinks I have to.
- rconti 8y ago
  Do you get enough sleep to even judge whether you're able to wake up in the AM?
  - hexo 8y ago
    Even if I wake up before sunrise - I do that sometimes for extended periods of time (few weeks/months) - I just cannot work in the morning
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  I'm confident you could work in the morning if you readjusted your sleeping habits. And there are a ton of jobs out there that start later in the day or have flexible work hours.
  - jolmg 8y ago
    > I'm confident you could work in the morning if you readjusted your sleeping habits. This subthread is about the possible/probable genetic reasons why some people have more trouble adjusting their sleeping habits to that of everyone else. Saying that he just needs to adjust his sleeping habits is not really helpful.
    - oh_sigh 8y ago
      I was a night owl from the time I was 16 until 33(sleep 2-3-4AM until 10AM-11AM-12PM), and then I adjusted my sleep cycle to be an early riser(sleep 11-6). It took about 4 days before I felt physically right. The hardest part was lifestyle adjustments around the differing hours. I don't believe I have any kind of special power. OP sounds depressed with a self-defeatist mindset. He considers himself unemployable because he is a night owl. I don't know if telling him 'It's okay, it's not your fault' will help his situation. And I don't think what I'm doing is similar to telling a paraplegic to just try really hard to walk - is there any science that these 'hardwired night owls' can't actually change?
      - 8y ago
rconti 8y ago
I just finished the book, and am putting a lot more focus on my sleep. One thing it made me realize is, I don't think it's possible for people to know if they're night owls or not, until they're routinely getting 8 hours of sleep a night. Of course if you're not getting enough sleep you'll find it hard to get up in the morning and thus claim you're a "night owl" and "can't function in the morning".
- jplayer01 8y ago
  I agree. Modern life has created so many ways that artificially change our sleep/wake rhythms unintentionally (for example, binge-watching a show 'til 3am even though I was dead tired 3 hours ago and probably could've fallen asleep immediately). I'm 30 and I'm still not sure whether I'm a night owl or not, even though I'm awake late into the night 90% of the time. Could just be a habit that I've developed over the years with the aid of artificial lighting and computing.
- jolmg 8y ago
  Well, it's not just about it being hard to get up in the morning. It's also about the tendency to stay up late when everyone else is tired, isn't it? Though, I get your point that probably many claim to be born "night owls" when it's probably just the constant light from the monitor and internet addictions that keep them wide awake.
  - rconti 8y ago
    Sure, I suppose it could manifest itself in any number of ways. I've ALWAYS considered myself a night owl for both reasons; difficulty of waking AND desire to stay up late. No matter how much blue light I get, I fall asleep just fine at night when I go to bed (assuming I don't have too much caffeine late in the day). That said, I will easily/happily stay up until 2am. I just don't like to go to bed. Call it getting a second wind, or desire to avoid "ending my day" and having to go right to work first thing in the AM, or whatever. I might, in fact, be a night owl, I'm just realizing I don't know myself well enough to say for sure.
nandemo 8y ago
In TFA, "slow morning" doesn't mean waking up late. It means waking up early but taking your time before starting work. If you're a night owl you're probably not doing slow mornings.

cmg 8y ago

Here's a non-paywall version of it: https://outline.com/7WuvGD https://outline.com/7WuvGD

VectorLock 8y ago

I always wondered if my night owl tendencies were nature or nurture (staying up late for inexpensive long distance and calling night-only BBSes) and I've gravitated to a career that embraces that mode (SRE, Operations, on-call positions) . It seems that society seems to value the 'get up early' more than the 'stay up late' ability.

ilamont 8y ago
That's right. That may a holdover from our agrarian roots, when people had to get up early to milk the cows or work in the fields before it got too hot. It's become institutionalized in modern society ("9 to 5", schools scheduled in the morning and early afternoon, etc.)

hexo 8y ago

I'm unemployable just because of this. I cannot "work" in the morning or when my employer thinks I have to.

rconti 8y ago
Do you get enough sleep to even judge whether you're able to wake up in the AM?
- hexo 8y ago
  Even if I wake up before sunrise - I do that sometimes for extended periods of time (few weeks/months) - I just cannot work in the morning
oh_sigh 8y ago
I'm confident you could work in the morning if you readjusted your sleeping habits. And there are a ton of jobs out there that start later in the day or have flexible work hours.
- jolmg 8y ago
  > I'm confident you could work in the morning if you readjusted your sleeping habits. This subthread is about the possible/probable genetic reasons why some people have more trouble adjusting their sleeping habits to that of everyone else. Saying that he just needs to adjust his sleeping habits is not really helpful.
  - oh_sigh 8y ago
    I was a night owl from the time I was 16 until 33(sleep 2-3-4AM until 10AM-11AM-12PM), and then I adjusted my sleep cycle to be an early riser(sleep 11-6). It took about 4 days before I felt physically right. The hardest part was lifestyle adjustments around the differing hours. I don't believe I have any kind of special power. OP sounds depressed with a self-defeatist mindset. He considers himself unemployable because he is a night owl. I don't know if telling him 'It's okay, it's not your fault' will help his situation. And I don't think what I'm doing is similar to telling a paraplegic to just try really hard to walk - is there any science that these 'hardwired night owls' can't actually change?
    - 8y ago

rconti 8y ago

I just finished the book, and am putting a lot more focus on my sleep. One thing it made me realize is, I don't think it's possible for people to know if they're night owls or not, until they're routinely getting 8 hours of sleep a night. Of course if you're not getting enough sleep you'll find it hard to get up in the morning and thus claim you're a "night owl" and "can't function in the morning".

jplayer01 8y ago
I agree. Modern life has created so many ways that artificially change our sleep/wake rhythms unintentionally (for example, binge-watching a show 'til 3am even though I was dead tired 3 hours ago and probably could've fallen asleep immediately). I'm 30 and I'm still not sure whether I'm a night owl or not, even though I'm awake late into the night 90% of the time. Could just be a habit that I've developed over the years with the aid of artificial lighting and computing.
jolmg 8y ago
Well, it's not just about it being hard to get up in the morning. It's also about the tendency to stay up late when everyone else is tired, isn't it? Though, I get your point that probably many claim to be born "night owls" when it's probably just the constant light from the monitor and internet addictions that keep them wide awake.
- rconti 8y ago
  Sure, I suppose it could manifest itself in any number of ways. I've ALWAYS considered myself a night owl for both reasons; difficulty of waking AND desire to stay up late. No matter how much blue light I get, I fall asleep just fine at night when I go to bed (assuming I don't have too much caffeine late in the day). That said, I will easily/happily stay up until 2am. I just don't like to go to bed. Call it getting a second wind, or desire to avoid "ending my day" and having to go right to work first thing in the AM, or whatever. I might, in fact, be a night owl, I'm just realizing I don't know myself well enough to say for sure.

nandemo 8y ago

In TFA, "slow morning" doesn't mean waking up late. It means waking up early but taking your time before starting work. If you're a night owl you're probably not doing slow mornings.