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It's getting harder to buy a car without crazy stuff. I just want a car. I got one that wants to take over steering, disturbing me as I drive. I disabled that

by tropo 8y ago

It's getting harder to buy a car without crazy stuff. I just want a car. I got one that wants to take over steering, disturbing me as I drive. I disabled that. It also wants to slam on the brakes whenever it gets confused. That misfeature must be disabled every time I start the car. Then there is the built-in cellular data and GPS and the microphone and at least 3 cameras. Yes, they are tracking me, and if they don't do worse already then it's just an involuntary software update away. Some day this will be hacked, and millions will die. That will be a memorable day.

Casseres 8y ago
Can you coverup/unplug the sensors and unplug the cellular modem?
- tropo 8y ago
  I suspect, from pictures seen on the internet, that the cellular modem antenna can be disconnected if I pop out the center console. This is quite a bit of trouble, with a pretty strong "warranty voided" feel to it. I intend to try it. I wouldn't know where to find the microphone.
  - abakker 8y ago
    Just find where it plugs in. All the wires go to the same few places.
  - Casseres 8y ago
    The microphones usually have visible coverings in the headliner. However if privacy is your concern, just disabling the celluar modem should be enough. As for voiding any warranty, should a problem arrise, it's up to the manufacturer to prove that whatever you did caused damage. Just taking apart and reassembling a console correctly will not void your warranty. "Warranty Voided if removed/opened" labels are not legally-enforceable in the US. Just look for Youtube videos on how to take it apart (or look for repair videos for other items in the console).
- kozak 8y ago
  If you watch recent crash test videos carefully, quite often you will see that the frontal camera is duct-taped over. If you don't do this, the car will refuse to be driven into the wall (due to automatic emergency braking). The future is here: you have to blindfold a car if you want to intentionally crash it.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    Perhaps in future, they'll bring the wall to the car instead.
    - nradov 8y ago
      The future is now. Some side impact crash tests ram a special sled into the side of a stationary target vehicle. https://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/ratings-info/side-test https://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/ratings-info/side-test
  - RandallBrown 8y ago
    I wonder if in the future we'll have relaxed safety requirements because cars will be good enough at preventing things like head on collisions.
muzika 8y ago
I personally like those features in my Infinity Q50 and always keep them on. As these features get better I suspect most people would prefer to keep them enabled.
- tropo 8y ago
  This is alien to me. Tell me more. Do you trust the software to not have dangerous bugs? Do you drive while text messaging, commenting on Hacker News, or watching video? Are you perfectly fine with your whereabouts and driving style being known and sold, for example to insurance companies or toll collectors or the police? Are you using the features to compensate for any kind of disability? Would you be fine with a car like HAL 9000, saying "I'm sorry muzika, I'm afraid I can't do that" to you?
  - vesak 8y ago
    Well, as many futurologists say... a self-driving car (or drive-assisting) doesn't have to be perfect. It merely needs to be better than a human driver. Data seems to suggest that that hurdle isn't that high. Then again, I do share your concern about hackability. Just a single grand catastrophe would turn the scales over for a long time. And nothing suggests that car software is of high quality currently. >Do you drive while text messaging Amazingly many people do, even after being told that it's about as dangerous as driving drunk.
    - siffland 8y ago
      I have said this before. Auto manufacturers are not the greatest at security. Jeep was not exactly receptive to fixing its hacked vehicles until it was exposed at blackhat. I agree, someone is going to do something simple like hack whatever main system is talking to all the cars and do something simple like tell all of them to accelerate and that is their last order. Can we all trust the car companies to do their due diligence and have all their software audited. Do we trust their proprietary algorithms? At least when i am driving myself i know what is going on in my head. Yes it might sound a little conceded, but who do you really trust. Also as a side mark (to get me downvoted :) ), i can understand automatic braking and some of the other things, but if you need the machine just to help maintain your lane for you...you probably should not be driving (i seriously work with someone who praises their car for helping them not drift out of their lane).
baroffoos 8y ago
Get a bike. 0 electronics.
gambiting 8y ago
There's loads of cars like this. Dacia Duster. Fiat Panda. Toyota GT86. Cheaper Peugeot and Citroen models. Essentially, anything cheap likely won't have this technology in.
lotsofpulp 8y ago
4Runners/Tacomas are basically the same vehicle for most of the past 2 decades with some cosmetic upgrades, and as far as I know, don't come with all the unnecessary electronics.
- ctrlc-root 8y ago
  I recently bought a Tacoma and was surprised to find out this is not always the case. Take a look at their privacy policy for "connected services": https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    Wow, I thought you could buy models without all that jazz.
    - ctrlc-root 8y ago
      You can opt out when you buy the vehicle. Like anyone at a dealership will care or know to even give you the choice. I wasn't and only found out about it when I saw the IMEI number on the sticker with the engine information.

by tropo 8y ago

Casseres 8y ago

Can you coverup/unplug the sensors and unplug the cellular modem?

tropo 8y ago
I suspect, from pictures seen on the internet, that the cellular modem antenna can be disconnected if I pop out the center console. This is quite a bit of trouble, with a pretty strong "warranty voided" feel to it. I intend to try it. I wouldn't know where to find the microphone.
- abakker 8y ago
  Just find where it plugs in. All the wires go to the same few places.
- Casseres 8y ago
  The microphones usually have visible coverings in the headliner. However if privacy is your concern, just disabling the celluar modem should be enough. As for voiding any warranty, should a problem arrise, it's up to the manufacturer to prove that whatever you did caused damage. Just taking apart and reassembling a console correctly will not void your warranty. "Warranty Voided if removed/opened" labels are not legally-enforceable in the US. Just look for Youtube videos on how to take it apart (or look for repair videos for other items in the console).
kozak 8y ago
If you watch recent crash test videos carefully, quite often you will see that the frontal camera is duct-taped over. If you don't do this, the car will refuse to be driven into the wall (due to automatic emergency braking). The future is here: you have to blindfold a car if you want to intentionally crash it.
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  Perhaps in future, they'll bring the wall to the car instead.
  - nradov 8y ago
    The future is now. Some side impact crash tests ram a special sled into the side of a stationary target vehicle. https://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/ratings-info/side-test https://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/ratings-info/side-test
- RandallBrown 8y ago
  I wonder if in the future we'll have relaxed safety requirements because cars will be good enough at preventing things like head on collisions.

muzika 8y ago

I personally like those features in my Infinity Q50 and always keep them on. As these features get better I suspect most people would prefer to keep them enabled.

tropo 8y ago
This is alien to me. Tell me more. Do you trust the software to not have dangerous bugs? Do you drive while text messaging, commenting on Hacker News, or watching video? Are you perfectly fine with your whereabouts and driving style being known and sold, for example to insurance companies or toll collectors or the police? Are you using the features to compensate for any kind of disability? Would you be fine with a car like HAL 9000, saying "I'm sorry muzika, I'm afraid I can't do that" to you?
- vesak 8y ago
  Well, as many futurologists say... a self-driving car (or drive-assisting) doesn't have to be perfect. It merely needs to be better than a human driver. Data seems to suggest that that hurdle isn't that high. Then again, I do share your concern about hackability. Just a single grand catastrophe would turn the scales over for a long time. And nothing suggests that car software is of high quality currently. >Do you drive while text messaging Amazingly many people do, even after being told that it's about as dangerous as driving drunk.
  - siffland 8y ago
    I have said this before. Auto manufacturers are not the greatest at security. Jeep was not exactly receptive to fixing its hacked vehicles until it was exposed at blackhat. I agree, someone is going to do something simple like hack whatever main system is talking to all the cars and do something simple like tell all of them to accelerate and that is their last order. Can we all trust the car companies to do their due diligence and have all their software audited. Do we trust their proprietary algorithms? At least when i am driving myself i know what is going on in my head. Yes it might sound a little conceded, but who do you really trust. Also as a side mark (to get me downvoted :) ), i can understand automatic braking and some of the other things, but if you need the machine just to help maintain your lane for you...you probably should not be driving (i seriously work with someone who praises their car for helping them not drift out of their lane).

baroffoos 8y ago

Get a bike. 0 electronics.

gambiting 8y ago

There's loads of cars like this. Dacia Duster. Fiat Panda. Toyota GT86. Cheaper Peugeot and Citroen models. Essentially, anything cheap likely won't have this technology in.

lotsofpulp 8y ago

4Runners/Tacomas are basically the same vehicle for most of the past 2 decades with some cosmetic upgrades, and as far as I know, don't come with all the unnecessary electronics.

ctrlc-root 8y ago
I recently bought a Tacoma and was surprised to find out this is not always the case. Take a look at their privacy policy for "connected services": https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  Wow, I thought you could buy models without all that jazz.
  - ctrlc-root 8y ago
    You can opt out when you buy the vehicle. Like anyone at a dealership will care or know to even give you the choice. I wasn't and only found out about it when I saw the IMEI number on the sticker with the engine information.