5 ms·

Yeah, if electronic mules are so great, I would expect to see some actual mules still in service.

michaelt 8y ago
According to "FM 3-05.213 (FM 31-27) Special Forces Use of Pack Animals" from 2004 [1] "Today and throughout the operational continuum, SF may find themselves involved in operations in rural or remote environments, such as Operations UPHOLD DEMOCRACY or ENDURING FREEDOM, using pack animals." [1] https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-05-213.pdf https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-05-213.pdf
- tcpekin 8y ago
  Wow, this document is fascinating.
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    The USMC Small Wars Manual - has some fascinating info on how pre mechanisation troops used hoses mules oxen ect. https://archive.org/details/UsmcSmallWarsManual1940Reprinted1990 https://archive.org/details/UsmcSmallWarsManual1940Reprinted...
  - swish_bob 8y ago
    I love that it includes the line: > Elephants are considered an endangered species and as such should not be used by U.S. military personnel.
ryanmercer 8y ago
>I would expect to see some actual mules still in service. SF have been using horses in places like Afghanistan for the past 2 decades and while DARPA is working on a robotic mule the DoD has brought in consultants to advise them about actual mules. You'd be surprised what the military still does with animals, the Army even still has the U.S. Army Veterinary Corps with 700 something veterinarians for dogs, ceremony horses, working animals etc.
- arethuza 8y ago
  The British Army apparently has more horses than tanks - though I suspect they aren't being kept for any practical purposes.
  - desdiv 8y ago
    Fascinating stuff! A 2015 article from the horse's mouth[0] shows 485 horses for ceremonial purposes vs 227 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tanks. [0] https://www.forces.net/services/tri-service/leading-charge-twice-many-horses-tanks-british-army https://www.forces.net/services/tri-service/leading-charge-t... Also a related BBC article with more background: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-22951548 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-22951...
    - arethuza 8y ago
      From one of those links: "The figures don't necessarily mean we have got too many horses, it's more likely the figures mean we don't have enough tanks." Edit: Mind you, on reflection, 485 horses does seem rather a lot.
AndyMcConachie 8y ago
Funny story. I was listening to an interview with Chinese historian Carl Zha. According to Zha the CIA ran a breeding program for mules in the 1980s for use in Afghanistan to supply the mujahadeen. The breeding program was in Tennessee and used Tennessee mules. All the mules died after about a year because for whatever reason they couldn't deal with the conditions in Afghanistan. So the CIA went looking for a mule provider in the region and ended up sourcing mules from Uyghur tribesmen in western China. These mules didn't die. And thus began the CIA's relationship with the Uyghur. I'm not vouching for the authenticity of this story, but it is a good story none the less.
- koheripbal 8y ago
  ...and now I understand why the Uyghur are persecuted in China.
colek42 8y ago
I used a mule in the mountains of Afghanistan in 2010. It was the only way other than helo or a strong back to get supplies up the mountain to out observation point.

According to "FM 3-05.213 (FM 31-27) Special Forces Use of Pack Animals" from 2004 [1] "Today and throughout the operational continuum, SF may find themselves involved in operations in rural or remote environments, such as Operations UPHOLD DEMOCRACY or ENDURING FREEDOM, using pack animals." [1] https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-05-213.pdf https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-05-213.pdf

tcpekin 8y ago
Wow, this document is fascinating.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  The USMC Small Wars Manual - has some fascinating info on how pre mechanisation troops used hoses mules oxen ect. https://archive.org/details/UsmcSmallWarsManual1940Reprinted1990 https://archive.org/details/UsmcSmallWarsManual1940Reprinted...
- swish_bob 8y ago
  I love that it includes the line: > Elephants are considered an endangered species and as such should not be used by U.S. military personnel.

ryanmercer 8y ago

>I would expect to see some actual mules still in service. SF have been using horses in places like Afghanistan for the past 2 decades and while DARPA is working on a robotic mule the DoD has brought in consultants to advise them about actual mules. You'd be surprised what the military still does with animals, the Army even still has the U.S. Army Veterinary Corps with 700 something veterinarians for dogs, ceremony horses, working animals etc.

arethuza 8y ago
The British Army apparently has more horses than tanks - though I suspect they aren't being kept for any practical purposes.
- desdiv 8y ago
  Fascinating stuff! A 2015 article from the horse's mouth[0] shows 485 horses for ceremonial purposes vs 227 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tanks. [0] https://www.forces.net/services/tri-service/leading-charge-twice-many-horses-tanks-british-army https://www.forces.net/services/tri-service/leading-charge-t... Also a related BBC article with more background: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-22951548 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-22951...
  - arethuza 8y ago
    From one of those links: "The figures don't necessarily mean we have got too many horses, it's more likely the figures mean we don't have enough tanks." Edit: Mind you, on reflection, 485 horses does seem rather a lot.

AndyMcConachie 8y ago

Funny story. I was listening to an interview with Chinese historian Carl Zha. According to Zha the CIA ran a breeding program for mules in the 1980s for use in Afghanistan to supply the mujahadeen. The breeding program was in Tennessee and used Tennessee mules. All the mules died after about a year because for whatever reason they couldn't deal with the conditions in Afghanistan. So the CIA went looking for a mule provider in the region and ended up sourcing mules from Uyghur tribesmen in western China. These mules didn't die. And thus began the CIA's relationship with the Uyghur. I'm not vouching for the authenticity of this story, but it is a good story none the less.

koheripbal 8y ago
...and now I understand why the Uyghur are persecuted in China.

colek42 8y ago

I used a mule in the mountains of Afghanistan in 2010. It was the only way other than helo or a strong back to get supplies up the mountain to out observation point.