4 ms·

It appears to me that once a society becomes large enough a majority of the problems left to solve are collection action problems, I think the housing crisis in

It appears to me that once a society becomes large enough a majority of the problems left to solve are collection action problems, I think the housing crisis in West Coast cities in particular is an example of a collection action problem. I keep up with the NIMBY/YIMBY divide both in my home: Portland, OR and in the Bay Area. And I've noticed a few trends: You can't build high in certain areas because it blocks the view for wealth homeowners, you can't build moderate density buildings because it "changes the character of the neighborhood", you can't extend rail into certain areas because rail bring minori-- eh, crime. And you can't build near existing rail because it should be up to each individual community to decide what gets built in their location. Where are you supposed to build? Something has to give, and it looks like as always its poor folk who are suffering. Being pushed out further and further with a lack of adequate transportation support to get to urban job centers.

whatshisface 8y ago
>Where are you supposed to build? Austin. That's why the US has a federal structure, so that if one polity degenerates into a self-interested but somehow still self-destructive gridlock situation, everyone can just leave.
- cenal 8y ago
  Poor people can’t just leave. They lack the resources to get started in a new community.
  - whatshisface 8y ago
    When only poor people live in SF, the property prices will decline from the stratosphere.
  - masonic 8y ago
    This is why the Dust Bowl westward migration... didn't happen?
- dhh2106 8y ago
  And Houston. In Triumph of the City, Edward Glaser talks a lot about the effect of regulation in housing markets on pricing and new construction. He uses Houston as the prime example. Of course, deregulation in the housing market is far from a panacea and comes with a number of trade-offs
- sagarm 8y ago
  Austin just gave up on CodeNext, a revamped zoning proposal to allow for greater density. It's not safe from NIMBYs. https://www.statesman.com/news/20180802/codenext-to-code-nixed-adler-council-members-abandon-code-rewrite/1 https://www.statesman.com/news/20180802/codenext-to-code-nix...
  - bretthoerner 8y ago
    CodeNext had plenty of non-NIMBY issues. This November we voted in a city council that is majority urbanist/pro-density and voted down the NIMBY Prop J. There is hope.
kokokokoko 8y ago
I see all the issues out on the west coast. But then why are real estate prices in places like Buffalo, Cleveland or Pittsburgh also rising significantly faster than inflation? Why are places where the population is declining seeing an increase in real estate values? It seems like everywhere I go everyone blames real estate prices on some variety of local issues without noticing that this isn't even a national issue, but global. Maybe we need to address these macro issues first?
- pxeboot 8y ago
  Speculation and low interest rates are nationwide issues. Locally, price increases are almost always caused the population growing faster than new homes are built.
  - kokokokoko 8y ago
    But if Cleveland cannot keep real estate prices stable, with a rapidly declinig population, how in the world could anyone realistically expect a place like Portland, Seattle or the Bay Area to? Local policy does not appear to be able to even fix this with a declining population. So please answer me. What is Cleveland doing wrong that is causing their real estate prices to climb higher than inflation? What can Cleveland do?
    - pxeboot 8y ago
      My speculation and low interest rate points still apply. Maybe Cleveland was undervalued before? Maybe the population declines are mostly non-homeowners? So before naming something specific they are doing wrong, what should a house cost? Cleveland is still so much cheaper than many other cities, they might not be doing anything wrong.
  - anigbrowl 8y ago
    Why are places where the population is declining seeing an increase in real estate values?
    - 8y ago
la6470 8y ago
Why don’t we help homeless people build their own settlements like somewhere where there is enough land ? Probably it would be inconvenient but that is how towns and cities are founded.
mondo9000 8y ago
Meanwhile Paris is more dense than NYC. Beautiful dense cities are a solved problem since like 1700s.
- cheriot 8y ago
  As is Barcelona and Athens. But it would ruin the neighborhood's character /s Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_cities_proper_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_cities_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

whatshisface 8y ago

>Where are you supposed to build? Austin. That's why the US has a federal structure, so that if one polity degenerates into a self-interested but somehow still self-destructive gridlock situation, everyone can just leave.

cenal 8y ago
Poor people can’t just leave. They lack the resources to get started in a new community.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  When only poor people live in SF, the property prices will decline from the stratosphere.
- masonic 8y ago
  This is why the Dust Bowl westward migration... didn't happen?
dhh2106 8y ago
And Houston. In Triumph of the City, Edward Glaser talks a lot about the effect of regulation in housing markets on pricing and new construction. He uses Houston as the prime example. Of course, deregulation in the housing market is far from a panacea and comes with a number of trade-offs
sagarm 8y ago
Austin just gave up on CodeNext, a revamped zoning proposal to allow for greater density. It's not safe from NIMBYs. https://www.statesman.com/news/20180802/codenext-to-code-nixed-adler-council-members-abandon-code-rewrite/1 https://www.statesman.com/news/20180802/codenext-to-code-nix...
- bretthoerner 8y ago
  CodeNext had plenty of non-NIMBY issues. This November we voted in a city council that is majority urbanist/pro-density and voted down the NIMBY Prop J. There is hope.

kokokokoko 8y ago

I see all the issues out on the west coast. But then why are real estate prices in places like Buffalo, Cleveland or Pittsburgh also rising significantly faster than inflation? Why are places where the population is declining seeing an increase in real estate values? It seems like everywhere I go everyone blames real estate prices on some variety of local issues without noticing that this isn't even a national issue, but global. Maybe we need to address these macro issues first?

pxeboot 8y ago
Speculation and low interest rates are nationwide issues. Locally, price increases are almost always caused the population growing faster than new homes are built.
- kokokokoko 8y ago
  But if Cleveland cannot keep real estate prices stable, with a rapidly declinig population, how in the world could anyone realistically expect a place like Portland, Seattle or the Bay Area to? Local policy does not appear to be able to even fix this with a declining population. So please answer me. What is Cleveland doing wrong that is causing their real estate prices to climb higher than inflation? What can Cleveland do?
  - pxeboot 8y ago
    My speculation and low interest rate points still apply. Maybe Cleveland was undervalued before? Maybe the population declines are mostly non-homeowners? So before naming something specific they are doing wrong, what should a house cost? Cleveland is still so much cheaper than many other cities, they might not be doing anything wrong.
- anigbrowl 8y ago
  Why are places where the population is declining seeing an increase in real estate values?
  - 8y ago

la6470 8y ago

Why don’t we help homeless people build their own settlements like somewhere where there is enough land ? Probably it would be inconvenient but that is how towns and cities are founded.

mondo9000 8y ago

Meanwhile Paris is more dense than NYC. Beautiful dense cities are a solved problem since like 1700s.

cheriot 8y ago
As is Barcelona and Athens. But it would ruin the neighborhood's character /s Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_cities_proper_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_cities_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...