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There are any number of persistent myths attached to the popular conception of 12 step programs. I am in no way an expert on AA, but I have researched various

There are any number of persistent myths attached to the popular conception of 12 step programs. I am in no way an expert on AA, but I have researched various addiction treatment methods fairly extensively and am close to people who work professionally in recovery programs. The idea that AA reinforces the "moral failing" aspect of addiction seems contrary to everything I've ever read, heard, or seen in regards to AA. There may be a sense in which what you wrote is true, depending on defining very hard to define words such as "moral" ... I say that to apply the principle of charity to your comment as liberally as possible. My problem with you writing what you wrote is that it could discourage someone from seeking help. AA is free and nearly ubiquitous. It is decentralized and the implementation varies considerably from group to group. People can relatively easily find meetings and just walk in. Whether or not it is the best fit for any given addict, it is often the first step someone takes on a very difficult road. I don't think it in any way serves the common good to make discouraging comments about it. Especially if they are potentially misleading, which IMO yours is.

taurath 8y ago
> The idea that AA reinforces the "moral failing" aspect of addiction seems contrary to everything I've ever read, heard, or seen in regards to AA. The entire insistence on the belief in a higher power, along with insistence that one is "powerless over your addiction" is intrinsically talking about a moral failing, and more specifically adherence to a christian-worldview where all from birth are morally failed. They are offering a solution, in the form of rewiring your entire worldview (and deeply held beliefs) to the idea that you are powerless, there's an all powerful deity, and all good things are because of said deity. Step 4 is literally "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves." [1] It may be effective for some, and some may have issues or resistance to such a thing. Having a conversation about the methodologies is impossible without potentially discouraging someone from seeking help - but we should not hide the negatives, or else there'll be no way to actually get to better solutions. My feeling is that religion and giving up to a higher power can work for some people, but for others it can be a betrayal of their deeply held principles and values - my fear is that places like AA in an effort to evangelize their own principles and values take people who are rock bottom and offer up theirs as a solution rather than something that might work well for the person. 1: https://12step.org/the-12-steps/ https://12step.org/the-12-steps/
- solidsnack9000 8y ago
  The entire insistence on the belief in a higher power, along with insistence that one is "powerless over your addiction" is intrinsically talking about a moral failing, and more specifically adherence to a christian-worldview where all from birth are morally failed. Does belief in a higher power constitute being morally failed? Is it even specifically Judeo-Christian? Being "powerless over your addiction" has more to do with setting aside rationalizations and not mistaking temporary breaks for having control. AA undeniably has a Christian flavor -- it was developed and elaborated by Christian people -- but that doesn't mean it's about Christianity.
  - taurath 8y ago
    I think you should check the link I posted if you want to say it doesn’t mean it’s about Christianity.
  - danielcarver 8y ago
    AA absolutely is about Christianity, it is an offshoot of Christianity and a Christian organization. The emphasis on public self-flagellation and self-humiliation via drunkalogs and self labeling as “alcoholics” aka sinners, the insistence on the nonsensical idea of “personal powerlessness,” the dogmatic suggesting of a book (the AA big book) written by Christian religious freaks as if it’s the Bible... AA quite literally IS Christianity. It’s just that they use the generic label “God” rather than the more specific label of “Jesus Christ.” It’s not like they allow polytheism, lol. They are specifically a monotheistic group religion, based on the idea of a singular MALE “higher power.” AA is Christianity. Saying otherwise reveals you either don’t know much about AA, or you don’t know much about Christianity. They are functionally the same.

taurath 8y ago

> The idea that AA reinforces the "moral failing" aspect of addiction seems contrary to everything I've ever read, heard, or seen in regards to AA. The entire insistence on the belief in a higher power, along with insistence that one is "powerless over your addiction" is intrinsically talking about a moral failing, and more specifically adherence to a christian-worldview where all from birth are morally failed. They are offering a solution, in the form of rewiring your entire worldview (and deeply held beliefs) to the idea that you are powerless, there's an all powerful deity, and all good things are because of said deity. Step 4 is literally "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves." [1] It may be effective for some, and some may have issues or resistance to such a thing. Having a conversation about the methodologies is impossible without potentially discouraging someone from seeking help - but we should not hide the negatives, or else there'll be no way to actually get to better solutions. My feeling is that religion and giving up to a higher power can work for some people, but for others it can be a betrayal of their deeply held principles and values - my fear is that places like AA in an effort to evangelize their own principles and values take people who are rock bottom and offer up theirs as a solution rather than something that might work well for the person. 1: https://12step.org/the-12-steps/ https://12step.org/the-12-steps/

solidsnack9000 8y ago
The entire insistence on the belief in a higher power, along with insistence that one is "powerless over your addiction" is intrinsically talking about a moral failing, and more specifically adherence to a christian-worldview where all from birth are morally failed. Does belief in a higher power constitute being morally failed? Is it even specifically Judeo-Christian? Being "powerless over your addiction" has more to do with setting aside rationalizations and not mistaking temporary breaks for having control. AA undeniably has a Christian flavor -- it was developed and elaborated by Christian people -- but that doesn't mean it's about Christianity.
- taurath 8y ago
  I think you should check the link I posted if you want to say it doesn’t mean it’s about Christianity.
- danielcarver 8y ago
  AA absolutely is about Christianity, it is an offshoot of Christianity and a Christian organization. The emphasis on public self-flagellation and self-humiliation via drunkalogs and self labeling as “alcoholics” aka sinners, the insistence on the nonsensical idea of “personal powerlessness,” the dogmatic suggesting of a book (the AA big book) written by Christian religious freaks as if it’s the Bible... AA quite literally IS Christianity. It’s just that they use the generic label “God” rather than the more specific label of “Jesus Christ.” It’s not like they allow polytheism, lol. They are specifically a monotheistic group religion, based on the idea of a singular MALE “higher power.” AA is Christianity. Saying otherwise reveals you either don’t know much about AA, or you don’t know much about Christianity. They are functionally the same.