5 ms·

I really don't understand many people's view on cryptocurrency. It looks they think anonymity is most important feature of cryptocurrency. This is ridiculous. T

by tapirl 8y ago

I really don't understand many people's view on cryptocurrency. It looks they think anonymity is most important feature of cryptocurrency. This is ridiculous. There are already too much anonymity in fiats. The principle of cryptocurrency should be the contrary: transparency.

knocte 8y ago
IMNSHO cryptocurrency is not about transparency or privacy, it's about avoiding counterparty-risk.
- tapirl 8y ago
  agree. But as an invention, the main duty of crptocurrency should be to fix the shortcoming of fiat. The main shortcoming of fiat is opaque.
  - knocte 8y ago
    I disagree, the main issue of fiat is centralization (which means single point of issuance and thirdparty intervention). Bitcoin solves both beautifully.
    - tapirl 8y ago
      Centralization is not so bad. In fact, most fiat currencies are better than most cryptocurrencies.
      - knocte 8y ago
        Hahahaha!
  - woobilicious 8y ago
    Fungibility is fundamental to money. One dollar should have the same value as any other dollar. If I had to verify every dollar I accepted wasn't used in illegal activities, then it would undermine the fundamental principle of equal value units, the coins linked to the WannaCry hack are now less valuable because they're blocked by several exchanges, if you're unlucky enough to accept those coins then you're stuck with coin that is accepted in a lot less places. There's a reason why the "gold standard" was in a soft metal that could be easily reshaped and melted to fit standardised units and didn't corrode or "break" lowering its value, and not diamonds or gems, where each crystal has unique collection of properties, and thus market values, imagine having to have an assessor to be on standby check the value of every one of your customers gems or bitcoins. It's also fundamental that you should be able to go to a local coffee shop every day without the threat of being mugged by someone who saw your bitcoin wallet amounts, and your tx sending money to the coffeeshop enter the tx pool just as you buy a coffee.
- koheripbal 8y ago
  Exactly - like cash. It's cash for the internet.
Rickvs 8y ago
It depends on the purpose of the information. It can be anonymous when privacy is important, and public when it needs total transparency.
Ar-Curunir 8y ago
Without anonymity, any transactions you make can be linked across time, giving any onlookers a clear history of your financial habits. Would you be okay with having your bank history plastered across the web for anyone to see? Also, even if you don't care for your personal privacy, anonymity is important for fungibility of the currency. Cash is mostly fungible, whereas something like Bitcoin might not be in the future.
- samatman 8y ago
  > Would you be okay with having your bank history plastered across the web for anyone to see? I used to think the answer to this question was obviously "no", but then Venmo happened, and I learned that some people like the 'social network' feature of it. Which I find appalling, but tastes differ, I guess.
sparkie 8y ago
People have different needs for privacy. For example, you don't want your colleagues learning how much you earn, nor does your employer. In a centralized banking system there is a level of privacy because the employer trusts the bank won't divulge the information because they have legal requirements and a reputation. When you take away the central party, now everyone can learn what everyone else gets paid. Without an equivalent level of privacy, very few people will ever consider using Bitcoin for payroll. People also do not want their lives monitored so they can be sold advertisements or be forced to behave in certain ways by their peers. It's none of an employer's business what their employees spend their money on after they have been paid for work. Increasingly, we are seeing some employers make judgements about the people they pay because they do not share the "correct" political thinking of the employer. The whole thing is becoming absurd. Transparency of the ledger is what is important. You need to know that somebody didn't make money out of thin air, or double-spend. If you can do this while keeping the actual transaction data private, most people would rather have private transactions if given the choice. Fiat doesn't have a great deal of anonymity from law enforcement. For most people, nearly everything but small transactions can be known. Even cash can be traced from ATM->Person->Shop->Bank. The notes have unique ID codes, and the biggest denomination of note (say, a $100 bill) usually goes straight from bank to bank with only the 2 people between the transaction, because these are not issued directly as change. You can be sure the bank makes a record of every note and who withdrew/deposited it. Moving large amounts of money through the fiat system is extremely difficult, unless you're a bank. The banks have a monopoly on the ability to launder large amounts of money, and they certainly make use of it!
- solarkraft 8y ago
  > Law enforcement And 6000 data brokers.
- xorcist 8y ago
  > you don't want your colleagues learning how much you earn Public servants have their salaries public in many parts of the world. There is something to be said for transparency. Some places even have all tax information public so this information is accessible on literally everyone.
127 8y ago
Money with no real privacy is not money, it's a tool of oppression. Any state actor, warlord or a powerful entity can enforce their will if the ledger can be visibly connected to real people. Making you a slave to any system they want to create. A person with no real freedom. Taking into consideration the totalitarian direction world is headed (US, China, etc.), I don't see how having more transparent form of money is a good thing for the ordinary people.
ianmiers 8y ago
The issue with cryptcurrency is it's twitter for your bank account. Everything you do is public to everyone. Imagine there was a database where given the serial number on a $20 bill, you could look up everywhere it's been ( and watch where it goes). That's cryptocurrency. The database is the blockchain. Anonymity is essential to make sure anyone, including your boss or ex boyfriend cannot stalk you with your payments. Once we ensure that ( I.e. we get the privacy of the existing banking system), then we can talk about what the gov should and shouldn't see.

by tapirl 8y ago

knocte 8y ago

IMNSHO cryptocurrency is not about transparency or privacy, it's about avoiding counterparty-risk.

tapirl 8y ago
agree. But as an invention, the main duty of crptocurrency should be to fix the shortcoming of fiat. The main shortcoming of fiat is opaque.
- knocte 8y ago
  I disagree, the main issue of fiat is centralization (which means single point of issuance and thirdparty intervention). Bitcoin solves both beautifully.
  - tapirl 8y ago
    Centralization is not so bad. In fact, most fiat currencies are better than most cryptocurrencies.
    - knocte 8y ago
      Hahahaha!
- woobilicious 8y ago
  Fungibility is fundamental to money. One dollar should have the same value as any other dollar. If I had to verify every dollar I accepted wasn't used in illegal activities, then it would undermine the fundamental principle of equal value units, the coins linked to the WannaCry hack are now less valuable because they're blocked by several exchanges, if you're unlucky enough to accept those coins then you're stuck with coin that is accepted in a lot less places. There's a reason why the "gold standard" was in a soft metal that could be easily reshaped and melted to fit standardised units and didn't corrode or "break" lowering its value, and not diamonds or gems, where each crystal has unique collection of properties, and thus market values, imagine having to have an assessor to be on standby check the value of every one of your customers gems or bitcoins. It's also fundamental that you should be able to go to a local coffee shop every day without the threat of being mugged by someone who saw your bitcoin wallet amounts, and your tx sending money to the coffeeshop enter the tx pool just as you buy a coffee.
koheripbal 8y ago
Exactly - like cash. It's cash for the internet.

Rickvs 8y ago

It depends on the purpose of the information. It can be anonymous when privacy is important, and public when it needs total transparency.

Ar-Curunir 8y ago

Without anonymity, any transactions you make can be linked across time, giving any onlookers a clear history of your financial habits. Would you be okay with having your bank history plastered across the web for anyone to see? Also, even if you don't care for your personal privacy, anonymity is important for fungibility of the currency. Cash is mostly fungible, whereas something like Bitcoin might not be in the future.

samatman 8y ago
> Would you be okay with having your bank history plastered across the web for anyone to see? I used to think the answer to this question was obviously "no", but then Venmo happened, and I learned that some people like the 'social network' feature of it. Which I find appalling, but tastes differ, I guess.

sparkie 8y ago

People have different needs for privacy. For example, you don't want your colleagues learning how much you earn, nor does your employer. In a centralized banking system there is a level of privacy because the employer trusts the bank won't divulge the information because they have legal requirements and a reputation. When you take away the central party, now everyone can learn what everyone else gets paid. Without an equivalent level of privacy, very few people will ever consider using Bitcoin for payroll. People also do not want their lives monitored so they can be sold advertisements or be forced to behave in certain ways by their peers. It's none of an employer's business what their employees spend their money on after they have been paid for work. Increasingly, we are seeing some employers make judgements about the people they pay because they do not share the "correct" political thinking of the employer. The whole thing is becoming absurd. Transparency of the ledger is what is important. You need to know that somebody didn't make money out of thin air, or double-spend. If you can do this while keeping the actual transaction data private, most people would rather have private transactions if given the choice. Fiat doesn't have a great deal of anonymity from law enforcement. For most people, nearly everything but small transactions can be known. Even cash can be traced from ATM->Person->Shop->Bank. The notes have unique ID codes, and the biggest denomination of note (say, a $100 bill) usually goes straight from bank to bank with only the 2 people between the transaction, because these are not issued directly as change. You can be sure the bank makes a record of every note and who withdrew/deposited it. Moving large amounts of money through the fiat system is extremely difficult, unless you're a bank. The banks have a monopoly on the ability to launder large amounts of money, and they certainly make use of it!

solarkraft 8y ago
> Law enforcement And 6000 data brokers.
xorcist 8y ago
> you don't want your colleagues learning how much you earn Public servants have their salaries public in many parts of the world. There is something to be said for transparency. Some places even have all tax information public so this information is accessible on literally everyone.

127 8y ago

Money with no real privacy is not money, it's a tool of oppression. Any state actor, warlord or a powerful entity can enforce their will if the ledger can be visibly connected to real people. Making you a slave to any system they want to create. A person with no real freedom. Taking into consideration the totalitarian direction world is headed (US, China, etc.), I don't see how having more transparent form of money is a good thing for the ordinary people.

ianmiers 8y ago

The issue with cryptcurrency is it's twitter for your bank account. Everything you do is public to everyone. Imagine there was a database where given the serial number on a $20 bill, you could look up everywhere it's been ( and watch where it goes). That's cryptocurrency. The database is the blockchain. Anonymity is essential to make sure anyone, including your boss or ex boyfriend cannot stalk you with your payments. Once we ensure that ( I.e. we get the privacy of the existing banking system), then we can talk about what the gov should and shouldn't see.