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Oh, this is fantastically cool. This is what cryptos should be. Real anonymity, no greed, no speculation, just good math. I love it. That said, the "no amounts

Oh, this is fantastically cool. This is what cryptos should be. Real anonymity, no greed, no speculation, just good math. I love it. That said, the "no amounts" thing is very confusing. Do they mean to say that the amounts aren't public? Because as far as I can tell, there definitely _are_ amounts. From the repo: "The block reward is currently set at 60 grin" - that's an amount, right? Someone's account is credited with 60 grin. I can then send 20 of those 60 grin to someone else, who can send them on and so on. Furthermore, the look-forward to quantum computing is great, and not common enough in new projects.

EthanHeilman 8y ago
It does have amounts but the amounts aren't public. They are hidden behind a blinding factor using a technique called Confidential Transactions (CT) [0]. [0]: https://elementsproject.org/features/confidential-transactions https://elementsproject.org/features/confidential-transactio...
flafla2 8y ago
From their "Grin for Bitcoiners" article [0]: There are 3 main properties of Grin transactions that make them private: - There are no addresses. - There are no amounts. - 2 transactions, one spending the other, can be merged in a block to form only one, removing all intermediary information. The 2 first properties mean that all transactions are indistinguishable from one another. Unless you directly participated in the transaction, all inputs and outputs look like random pieces of data (in lingo, they're all random curve points). Moreover, there are no more transactions in a block. A Grin block looks just like one giant transaction and all original association between inputs and outputs is lost. So I think "No more amounts" is simply trying to say that the concept of a globally-accessible transaction on the blockchain with a verifiable transaction amount is now gone. Now it's just blocks, which can be many transactions coalesced together. From later on that page "It's as if when Alice gives money to Bob, and then Bob gives it all to Carol, Bob was never involved and his transaction is actually never even seen on the blockchain." It is not trying to say that this currency is not countable or something like that (how would that even work?) [0] https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin/blob/master/doc/grin4bitcoiners.md https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin/blob/master/doc/grin4bi...
- owenversteeg 8y ago
  >It is not trying to say that this currency is not countable or something like that (how would that even work?) Yeah, that's what I thought at first, as well as some other people. I thought that maybe each person creates their own "currency" - maybe all the transactions are just sending files? The people trading determine the currency - a rare (e)book? Photographs? I feel like it'd be very useful to make this clearer. "No amounts" is a very different statement than "no public amounts".
- solarkraft 8y ago
  So s/There are no amounts/Transaction amounts aren't public ?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
just_one_time_ 8y ago
Greg, shut up.
beaner 8y ago
It's going to be speculated on as soon as exchanges list it.
- jarodym 8y ago
  It is, until the speculators understand that this has been severely discouraged in the economic model, and then it will have a liquidity problem. There is a cascading effect from modeling out speculation that they do acknowledge and don’t care about. That is called vision. And delusion. But I said the same thing about bitcoin being stupid in 2009 here.
  - rictic 8y ago
    > severely discouraged in the economic model Do you mean the fact that there's a fixed continuous rate of new coin production? Because as they point out in the Grin for Bitcoiners page that's still a continuously decreasing inflation rate (as a percentage of all coins).
Ihfhcub 8y ago
Grin uses homomorphic cryptography and non-cooperative coinjoin giving it great privacy. The amounts are not public and look only like random 256bits to someone that does not have the private key.
repomies68 8y ago
How is speculation a be thing? Healthy dose of speculators is needed for healthy markets. Speculators create liquidity and help pricing things. Without speculators, in general, world would be a lot worse.

EthanHeilman 8y ago

It does have amounts but the amounts aren't public. They are hidden behind a blinding factor using a technique called Confidential Transactions (CT) [0]. [0]: https://elementsproject.org/features/confidential-transactions https://elementsproject.org/features/confidential-transactio...

flafla2 8y ago

From their "Grin for Bitcoiners" article [0]: There are 3 main properties of Grin transactions that make them private: - There are no addresses. - There are no amounts. - 2 transactions, one spending the other, can be merged in a block to form only one, removing all intermediary information. The 2 first properties mean that all transactions are indistinguishable from one another. Unless you directly participated in the transaction, all inputs and outputs look like random pieces of data (in lingo, they're all random curve points). Moreover, there are no more transactions in a block. A Grin block looks just like one giant transaction and all original association between inputs and outputs is lost. So I think "No more amounts" is simply trying to say that the concept of a globally-accessible transaction on the blockchain with a verifiable transaction amount is now gone. Now it's just blocks, which can be many transactions coalesced together. From later on that page "It's as if when Alice gives money to Bob, and then Bob gives it all to Carol, Bob was never involved and his transaction is actually never even seen on the blockchain." It is not trying to say that this currency is not countable or something like that (how would that even work?) [0] https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin/blob/master/doc/grin4bitcoiners.md https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin/blob/master/doc/grin4bi...

owenversteeg 8y ago
>It is not trying to say that this currency is not countable or something like that (how would that even work?) Yeah, that's what I thought at first, as well as some other people. I thought that maybe each person creates their own "currency" - maybe all the transactions are just sending files? The people trading determine the currency - a rare (e)book? Photographs? I feel like it'd be very useful to make this clearer. "No amounts" is a very different statement than "no public amounts".
solarkraft 8y ago
So s/There are no amounts/Transaction amounts aren't public ?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

just_one_time_ 8y ago

Greg, shut up.

beaner 8y ago

It's going to be speculated on as soon as exchanges list it.

jarodym 8y ago
It is, until the speculators understand that this has been severely discouraged in the economic model, and then it will have a liquidity problem. There is a cascading effect from modeling out speculation that they do acknowledge and don’t care about. That is called vision. And delusion. But I said the same thing about bitcoin being stupid in 2009 here.
- rictic 8y ago
  > severely discouraged in the economic model Do you mean the fact that there's a fixed continuous rate of new coin production? Because as they point out in the Grin for Bitcoiners page that's still a continuously decreasing inflation rate (as a percentage of all coins).

Ihfhcub 8y ago

Grin uses homomorphic cryptography and non-cooperative coinjoin giving it great privacy. The amounts are not public and look only like random 256bits to someone that does not have the private key.

repomies68 8y ago

How is speculation a be thing? Healthy dose of speculators is needed for healthy markets. Speculators create liquidity and help pricing things. Without speculators, in general, world would be a lot worse.