7 ms·

Bootstrapping 10er, a Patreon-similar service for Danish creators

63 points by nicoserdeir 8y ago

tomxor 8y ago
wtf, 100% cpu scrolling at 1fps, no thanks.
- servercobra 8y ago
  What are you browsing with? I had perfectly smooth scrolling on MacOS + Safari.
  - RyJones 8y ago
    I'm on iOS/Safari. I only get a black page with no content. Clicking reader mode shows text intermingled with ad text, I assume. I gave up
    - code_duck 8y ago
      Strange. iOS on an iPhone 6 here with no problems. It’s a perfectly normal looking blog page.
      - jazzyjackson 8y ago
        Works great with javascript turned off -- 12kb, finished in under a second. Inspecting the HTML, the rendering seems to be blocked by a script loading the google fonts. Huh. Wonder what this is doing here. Probably hiding the whole website while googlefonts finishes loading. <style>.async-hide { opacity: 0 !important} </style>
        taspeotis 8y ago
        https://developers.google.com/optimize/ https://developers.google.com/optimize/
        jazzyjackson 8y ago
        Hide the page until script loads or 4 seconds pass, some optimization that is!
hjek 8y ago
I like that they are open about their expenses[0]. That's unusual. I wish they would be able to accept payments w/o requiring users to run non-free JS. [0]: https://10er.co/open https://10er.co/open
- jazzyjackson 8y ago
  If I wanted to accepted payments with open source JS / no JS, are there libraries that make that easy? The benefit of using the drop-in iframes / client side AJAX is that I get to take money without worrying about PCI compliance -- whereas if I hit some API serverside I'm handling people's credit card information myself, no? Would be curious to know what options are out there.
  - megous 8y ago
    I haven't done web payments for quite a while, but the way it was done 12 or so years ago was, that you generated some signed data for inserting into a hidden input inside a <form action=https://payment-processor.com/...> https://payment-processor.com/...>, and put that into a page server side. This would include all the order and merchant info. You'd also add a submit button with a "Pay now" text. User would then submit the form and that would take him to the payment processor. The rest was payment processor calling some webhooks on your server with payment verification/other status. You wouldn't see/handle any ccard info at all. No iframe trickery, no javascript necessary at all.
    - ForHackernews 8y ago
      Users dislike that because it bounces them to a different site.
      - megous 8y ago
        Going to a different site was sold as a benefit (given that the different site is/was the biggest and the most used bank in the country - so this helps with the trust issue). Also it's strictly superior to iframe hackery anyway. At least you can check that the site is not trying to scam you for your CC info, which you really can't (as a normal user) when the site is using iframes, because you'll not see iframe's URL in the URL bar.
Fomite 8y ago
"I never created a Patreon account for us though. Everytime I began I never finished signing up. The whole thing just seemed like a hassle. Too many input fields and things to consider and graphics to provide. Patreon expects creators to create more content for patrons. We felt we were already giving away lots with our already free content." I actually really like this philosophy. I run a tiny, niche miniatures wargaming blog, and while I have a Patreon account, I don't feel like I really fit with the Patreon "idea" of heavy engagement with patrons.
- nothrabannosir 8y ago
  Similarly, I find it awkward when creators email me about secret stuff only available to patrons. The magic is that your stuff is free! I don’t want to be incentivising this. The free content led me to donate in the first place. The only way to achieve this is to donate so little, you don’t get any access to secret material. Patreon defeats the purpose of Patreon.
  - mikker 8y ago
    Never thought about it that way but I see your point! Patreon is a nice service and I use it to give back to several projects. But I don't use any of the things (I suppose) I get in return.
  - r3bl 8y ago
    Fair point! As a creator thinking about creating a Patreon presence, I wouldn't have realized this. How would you feel if the content is still free, but you get a sneak peek at it a bit earlier? I'm currently considering postponing all the schedules I have for seven days, and offering content a week earlier to those who pay. In my mind, that sounds good: the content I create is still free, while there's still an incentive for the consumers to support its creation.
    - Zekio 8y ago
      This is actually how a lot of content creators do it
cherrygarcia 8y ago
I wonder why it’s Danish only
- mikker 8y ago
  It actually isn't! I've recently done most of the work of translating it to English. So anywhere Stripe Connect is, I am.
  - sschueller 8y ago
    Are you at all worried that stripe might pressure you to remove certain users from your site like patreon is currently doing? Do you have any future plans to use alternative non-US payment providers? For example Subscribestar can no longer accept paypal payments. [1] [1] https://www.subscribestar.com/subscribestar https://www.subscribestar.com/subscribestar
    - mikker 8y ago
      Not really. I have the same policy of not allowing hate speech and the like. I don't see myself as a "Patreon competitor" in that sense. Without getting myself into a debate I've only read a little about, I think good on them for controlling who gets to use their platform. I don't think of that as censorship, really. I have no plans to add anything but Stripe, no. I realize how vulnerable that makes me and my relationship with them but you have to trust someone. I have used Paypal before and I didn't like it at all.
      - raarts 8y ago
        > I have the same policy of not allowing hate speech and the like For whoever is interested: this is the (Google translated) text in the Terms of 10er: "The service must not be used for any illegal activity. Nor should the service be used in connection with violent, hateful, racist or similar activities. Brainbow defines in its own right what can be classified as being in one of these categories." You are indeed not a competitor for Patreon. The biggest problem people seem to have with Patreon is exactly this: every company creating its own definition of hate speech, which could result in their customers (creators) being cut off their income for things they say, even on other platforms. Which effectively creates censorship, and a growing administrative cost for all companies.
cco 8y ago
Suggested this as a future alternative to the creators I previously supported on Patreon, I'd love to see some better competition in this space.
- mikker 8y ago
  Thank you for spreading the word!
Svip 8y ago
The idea is good, but the execution is lacking. I get it's a one-man project so far, and that's going to leave you uncertain about its future unlike Patreon. And while Patreon definitely needs competition, creators also needs assurances before they rely on a service. I honestly wonder why he did not reach out to a few people, who were passionate about the same thing, to help build this service further. As plenty here have already noticed, the website has some quirks right now that might take months to fix, if ever, considering it is just one person running it. However, I hope all that will turn around, as he gets more press interest, and others might offer to help. And in a year's time, it has become something people might actually want to rely on. I wish him a lot of luck.
- djaychela 8y ago
  >>and that's going to leave you uncertain about its future unlike Patreon Given the events of the past month or so, I wouldn't be completely sure about the future of patreon. It's definitely shown the way forward in terms of supporting creators, but the repercussions of their actions seem to be gaining a lot of traction and putting doubt into trusting patreon for people who supported creators via the platform in the past.
  - michaelt 8y ago
    the repercussions of their actions seem to be gaining a lot of traction Is that based on hard figures from Patreon, or more of an impression based on the people you talk to?
    - djaychela 8y ago
      It's based on a significant number of people who are large Patreon account holders closing their accounts (Sam Harris is the first one to spring to mind, I believe he had the 13th largest account by monthly donation), and also a number of people saying their income via Patreon has decreased significantly as a result of patrons leaving the platform. Plus there seems to be a lot of disquiet about Patreon and people trying to set up competition for them (SubscribeStar, Dave Rubin/Jordan Peterson's project) which seems to be gaining a lot more attention than it would have otherwise - up to this point many people (myself included) were completely happy with Patreon.
mikker 8y ago
Creator of 10er here! Happy to answer any questions.

63 points by nicoserdeir 8y ago

tomxor 8y ago

wtf, 100% cpu scrolling at 1fps, no thanks.

servercobra 8y ago
What are you browsing with? I had perfectly smooth scrolling on MacOS + Safari.
- RyJones 8y ago
  I'm on iOS/Safari. I only get a black page with no content. Clicking reader mode shows text intermingled with ad text, I assume. I gave up
  - code_duck 8y ago
    Strange. iOS on an iPhone 6 here with no problems. It’s a perfectly normal looking blog page.
    - jazzyjackson 8y ago
      Works great with javascript turned off -- 12kb, finished in under a second. Inspecting the HTML, the rendering seems to be blocked by a script loading the google fonts. Huh. Wonder what this is doing here. Probably hiding the whole website while googlefonts finishes loading. <style>.async-hide { opacity: 0 !important} </style>
      - taspeotis 8y ago
        https://developers.google.com/optimize/ https://developers.google.com/optimize/
        jazzyjackson 8y ago
        Hide the page until script loads or 4 seconds pass, some optimization that is!

hjek 8y ago

I like that they are open about their expenses[0]. That's unusual. I wish they would be able to accept payments w/o requiring users to run non-free JS. [0]: https://10er.co/open https://10er.co/open

jazzyjackson 8y ago
If I wanted to accepted payments with open source JS / no JS, are there libraries that make that easy? The benefit of using the drop-in iframes / client side AJAX is that I get to take money without worrying about PCI compliance -- whereas if I hit some API serverside I'm handling people's credit card information myself, no? Would be curious to know what options are out there.
- megous 8y ago
  I haven't done web payments for quite a while, but the way it was done 12 or so years ago was, that you generated some signed data for inserting into a hidden input inside a <form action=https://payment-processor.com/...> https://payment-processor.com/...>, and put that into a page server side. This would include all the order and merchant info. You'd also add a submit button with a "Pay now" text. User would then submit the form and that would take him to the payment processor. The rest was payment processor calling some webhooks on your server with payment verification/other status. You wouldn't see/handle any ccard info at all. No iframe trickery, no javascript necessary at all.
  - ForHackernews 8y ago
    Users dislike that because it bounces them to a different site.
    - megous 8y ago
      Going to a different site was sold as a benefit (given that the different site is/was the biggest and the most used bank in the country - so this helps with the trust issue). Also it's strictly superior to iframe hackery anyway. At least you can check that the site is not trying to scam you for your CC info, which you really can't (as a normal user) when the site is using iframes, because you'll not see iframe's URL in the URL bar.

Fomite 8y ago

"I never created a Patreon account for us though. Everytime I began I never finished signing up. The whole thing just seemed like a hassle. Too many input fields and things to consider and graphics to provide. Patreon expects creators to create more content for patrons. We felt we were already giving away lots with our already free content." I actually really like this philosophy. I run a tiny, niche miniatures wargaming blog, and while I have a Patreon account, I don't feel like I really fit with the Patreon "idea" of heavy engagement with patrons.

nothrabannosir 8y ago
Similarly, I find it awkward when creators email me about secret stuff only available to patrons. The magic is that your stuff is free! I don’t want to be incentivising this. The free content led me to donate in the first place. The only way to achieve this is to donate so little, you don’t get any access to secret material. Patreon defeats the purpose of Patreon.
- mikker 8y ago
  Never thought about it that way but I see your point! Patreon is a nice service and I use it to give back to several projects. But I don't use any of the things (I suppose) I get in return.
- r3bl 8y ago
  Fair point! As a creator thinking about creating a Patreon presence, I wouldn't have realized this. How would you feel if the content is still free, but you get a sneak peek at it a bit earlier? I'm currently considering postponing all the schedules I have for seven days, and offering content a week earlier to those who pay. In my mind, that sounds good: the content I create is still free, while there's still an incentive for the consumers to support its creation.
  - Zekio 8y ago
    This is actually how a lot of content creators do it

cherrygarcia 8y ago

I wonder why it’s Danish only

mikker 8y ago
It actually isn't! I've recently done most of the work of translating it to English. So anywhere Stripe Connect is, I am.
- sschueller 8y ago
  Are you at all worried that stripe might pressure you to remove certain users from your site like patreon is currently doing? Do you have any future plans to use alternative non-US payment providers? For example Subscribestar can no longer accept paypal payments. [1] [1] https://www.subscribestar.com/subscribestar https://www.subscribestar.com/subscribestar
  - mikker 8y ago
    Not really. I have the same policy of not allowing hate speech and the like. I don't see myself as a "Patreon competitor" in that sense. Without getting myself into a debate I've only read a little about, I think good on them for controlling who gets to use their platform. I don't think of that as censorship, really. I have no plans to add anything but Stripe, no. I realize how vulnerable that makes me and my relationship with them but you have to trust someone. I have used Paypal before and I didn't like it at all.
    - raarts 8y ago
      > I have the same policy of not allowing hate speech and the like For whoever is interested: this is the (Google translated) text in the Terms of 10er: "The service must not be used for any illegal activity. Nor should the service be used in connection with violent, hateful, racist or similar activities. Brainbow defines in its own right what can be classified as being in one of these categories." You are indeed not a competitor for Patreon. The biggest problem people seem to have with Patreon is exactly this: every company creating its own definition of hate speech, which could result in their customers (creators) being cut off their income for things they say, even on other platforms. Which effectively creates censorship, and a growing administrative cost for all companies.

cco 8y ago

Suggested this as a future alternative to the creators I previously supported on Patreon, I'd love to see some better competition in this space.

mikker 8y ago
Thank you for spreading the word!

Svip 8y ago

The idea is good, but the execution is lacking. I get it's a one-man project so far, and that's going to leave you uncertain about its future unlike Patreon. And while Patreon definitely needs competition, creators also needs assurances before they rely on a service. I honestly wonder why he did not reach out to a few people, who were passionate about the same thing, to help build this service further. As plenty here have already noticed, the website has some quirks right now that might take months to fix, if ever, considering it is just one person running it. However, I hope all that will turn around, as he gets more press interest, and others might offer to help. And in a year's time, it has become something people might actually want to rely on. I wish him a lot of luck.

djaychela 8y ago
>>and that's going to leave you uncertain about its future unlike Patreon Given the events of the past month or so, I wouldn't be completely sure about the future of patreon. It's definitely shown the way forward in terms of supporting creators, but the repercussions of their actions seem to be gaining a lot of traction and putting doubt into trusting patreon for people who supported creators via the platform in the past.
- michaelt 8y ago
  the repercussions of their actions seem to be gaining a lot of traction Is that based on hard figures from Patreon, or more of an impression based on the people you talk to?
  - djaychela 8y ago
    It's based on a significant number of people who are large Patreon account holders closing their accounts (Sam Harris is the first one to spring to mind, I believe he had the 13th largest account by monthly donation), and also a number of people saying their income via Patreon has decreased significantly as a result of patrons leaving the platform. Plus there seems to be a lot of disquiet about Patreon and people trying to set up competition for them (SubscribeStar, Dave Rubin/Jordan Peterson's project) which seems to be gaining a lot more attention than it would have otherwise - up to this point many people (myself included) were completely happy with Patreon.

mikker 8y ago

Creator of 10er here! Happy to answer any questions.