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U.S. issues China travel advisory amid increased tensions
- yourbandsucks 8y agoI guess 30 years of peace and prosperity was too much for people to handle.. we can't just read our history, we have to learn the hard way.
- api 8y agoI dunno... a travel warning about a country with over a million people currently in camps seems reasonable.
- itslennysfault 8y agoWe have about 1/4 their population and over 2 million people in prison I'd think people visiting the US from China should be the ones that are worried.
- tossaccount123 8y agoprison =/= forced labor camp for political prisoners or Muslims I have yet to see Trump arrest the hundreds of thousands of people who marched against him and send them to perform slave labor in Alaska. Or arrest members of the media or opposing political parties who criticize him
- blacksmith_tb 8y agoI only wish that was true[1]. Of course, that does nothing to let the Chinese government off the hook for imprisoning and 're-educating' their Uighur citizens. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_Stat...
- gruez 8y ago>I only wish that was true[1]. he said >for political prisoners or Muslims Penal labor is bad and all, but equating what china's doing with what's happening in the US is giving china too much credit.
- blacksmith_tb 8y agoI wasn't trying to give China any credit, what they're doing is reprehensible, no doubt about it. I was suggesting that the situation of African-Americans in the US prison system[1] is less different from the Chinese example than we'd like to think. 1: https://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/ https://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/
- justaman 8y agoWow, terrible that this is downvoted.
- pkaye 8y agoDo you think it would be better for people requesting political asylum to go to US or China?
- akfanta 8y agoThat totally depends on who you pissed off, see Snowden.
- ngcc_hk 8y agoNo rule of law could be a hint.
- sphinxpy 8y agoAnd increasingly willing to throw people in those camps for less and less.
- stcredzero 8y agoSomewhat like we're suddenly more willing to un-person people in our own society with less pretext, less proof, and less due process. It wouldn't be the first time in our history such has happened. Such things happen in US history as a precursor to wars, and during wartime.
- toufiqbarhamov 8y agoSomewhat like we're suddenly more willing to un-person people in our own society with less pretext, less proof, and less due process. It wouldn't be the first time in our history such has happened. Such things happen in US history as a precursor to wars, and during wartime. ...And all other times. The entire history of the US was built on an entire group of people being legally “un-personed” for purely economic reasons. Are you sure it’s this phenomena you find troubling, or is it just who’s being targeted today? I’m trying to be charitable, yet I’m struggling to frame your comment in another way.
- stcredzero 8y ago...And all other times. The entire history of the US was built on an entire group of people being legally “un-personed” for purely economic reasons. Not purely economic. There were ideological reasons used as well. Are you sure it’s this phenomena you find troubling, or is it just who’s being targeted today? The troubling part, is that the population who historically had the rights, and practiced the exercise of them is now giving them up, spreading the narrative that they don't matter, and trying to take them away from others through de-facto power or intimidation. (Which has nothing to do with indelible characteristics, and only has to do with the status of citizenship.) I’m trying to be charitable, yet I’m struggling to frame your comment in another way. This is precisely the language the "un-personing" perpetrators use to intimidate people into silence and giving up their rights. Sorry, but I'm not buying it.
- bduerst 8y agoWhich country? U.S. immigration detention camps had close to half a million people at one point.
- squirrelicus 8y agoOh come on. How many of those people had legal visas? And how many of them were doing forced labor to death? Regardless of how you think we should handle illegal immigration, we're talking about two very, very different things here. Apparently there's good reason to believe that even if you follow all the laws of China to the letter, there's a risk they'll throw you in a death camp anyway, just because you're American.
- bduerst 8y agoIt was tongue-in-cheek remark, since they said camps. Is having a legal visa a requirement for having human rights? How many Americans were thrown in Chinese death camps last year?
- yourbandsucks 8y agoAlso, 'death camps'? That's mind-killing rhetoric. "Let's have a cold war" rhetoric. The USA imprisons a way higher % of our population without trial than the Chinese do. Check the plea bargain stats. Is it China's place to try and police our internal problems?
- squirrelicus 8y agoNot necessarily. Heard of the Uyghurs? The Chinese authorities have not been known for thinking Others have human rights, at least since Mao. Since when did putting millions of ethnic or political minorities in death camps become synonymous with imprisonment for crimes actually committed. You know what you get when you get imprisoned in America? Food, warmth, and lawyer and a judge! I'm not saying being imprisoned is good. But this level of reverse whataboutism is mind killing.
- yourbandsucks 8y agoYou're proving my point with that rush to demonize. The travel warning has nothing to do with uighur camps. Americans and Canadians aren't Uighur and aren't part of that conflict. It's like saying nations would issue travel warnings about the US because of fear of drone bombs. This is an escalating tit-for-tat related to the Huawei CFO. And all too many are just so certain that the place they were born is just so righteous.. it's probably going to continue to escalate.
- joejerryronnie 8y agoI would argue the Huawei CFO situation is just another escalation in the tit-for-tat battle that accompanies a rising power trying to displace an existing power. Most times, this leads to armed conflict of one sort or another.
- yourbandsucks 8y agoI mean, in the long arc, sure, but I'd really like to not see it get there. The Huawei thing just seems so avoidable. We renege on a deal with Iran that the Iranians were honoring, we start a trade war with China for mostly domestic-political reasons, and then we lump the 2 together into a justification for borderline-kidnapping of their citizen in Canada? Whatever happened to getting together at the table and negotiating about this stuff?
- joejerryronnie 8y agoNot that I disagree with your reasoning (and that going after Meng Wanzhou is a strange and seemingly unnecessary escalation), but China does not really negotiate honestly or play by any set of recognized international rules. I guess you could say the same of the US, but then you see the dilemma. My, unfortunately cynical, takeaway is that no matter how “woke” we like to think we have become as a global society, everything still eventually boils down to might makes right.
- chillacy 8y ago
- tonfa 8y agoHeadline is somewhat misleading, since that advisory seems to be the same as previous year (and maybe previous years?).
- stcredzero 8y agoAccording to YouTubers fitting the description, lots of ex-patriate westerners have been leaving China in recent months. The climate there has changed from tolerant/friendly towards westerners to "we don't need you." (serpentza and laowhy86 on YouTube are how I became aware of this.)
- DeonPenny 8y agoYeh I saw there videos. Seems like it has been building for a while
- ssnistfajen 8y agoMore like those two did not possess enough skills to qualify for a better visa. No country inherently needs immigrants who can't contribute anything. Zero sympathy for them. laowhy86 and serpentza subsisted off a horde of uninformed people who couldn't be bothered to even read Wikipedia articles about a country. This is evident through the clickbait-y style and non-existent intellectual depth of their videos.
- bowmessage 8y agoGuess you didn't watch their motorcycle touring videos? Astounding, hyper-local, cultural documentaries. Very much contributing to the country. Or you're another state sponsored troll?
- ssnistfajen 8y agoThat was in their early days when they were not as desperate to resort to clickbait. Do you use shill accusations against every person you disagree with? I almost feel sorry for your vile attitude and ignorance.
- dang 8y agoAttack another user like that will get you banned here. Please follow the guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- grecy 8y agoAfter traveling for over 2.5 years through 30 countries in Africa (still going)[1], I've learned travel advisories are extremely Political. Senegal wants to get a fair price for it's resources and asks for that? France issues a travel warning and decimates their tourist industry for a few years. It's common place for Western countries to issue travel warnings when they just don't like what a certain country is doing politically. It's often got nothing to do with traveler safety. [1]http://instagram.com/theroadchoseme/ http://instagram.com/theroadchoseme/
- Latteland 8y agoSounds believable that countries do these alerts for sometimes political reasons, but China is actually keeping people from leaving the country for unspecified reasons and is seizing people, even their own citizens.
- grecy 8y agoPlenty of countries do bad things to their own citizens that have absolutely no impact on foreign tourists who visit. I'm not saying it's OK, but it's hardly a reason to warn people not to go there.
- kyrra 8y agohttps://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/us/politics/china-canada-huawei.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/us/politics/china-canada-... China has been holding 3 Canadian's, likely in retaliation to the CFO of Huawei being held. So it may seem warranted here?
- acct1771 8y agoThe reason why those seizures are happening is why this "escalatory" bulletin is newsworthy. This is another bullet point in an escalation trend we've been seeing between the West and China, mostly surrounding infrastructure and political pressure/flurries of arrests and high profile detainments, in both regions.
- echevil 8y ago
- rdlecler1 8y agoOne Chinese idiom is “kill the chicken to scare the monkey” — right now Canada is the chicken.
- gringoDan 8y agoTo put this in context, the US Travel Advisory for China is "Level 2: Exercise Increased Caution". This is the same as the travel advisory for the U.K., most of Western Europe, and the touristy parts of Mexico. Map of US Travel Advisories: https://travelmaps.state.gov/TSGMap/ https://travelmaps.state.gov/TSGMap/