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> It seems like graphene production at scale is something states should be putting money and resources into. They do. https://polska.pl/science/achievements-s

by ajuc 8y ago

> It seems like graphene production at scale is something states should be putting money and resources into. They do. https://polska.pl/science/achievements-science/graphene-production-kicks-poland/ https://polska.pl/science/achievements-science/graphene-prod... They created a company that does it, and you can buy graphene from them. https://www.graphene-info.com/nano-carbon https://www.graphene-info.com/nano-carbon Turns out there are lots of different kinds of graphene, and despite all the hype - the demand for the kind we can produce at the current prices - just isn't that big.

joe_the_user 8y ago
Turns out there are lots of different kinds of graphene, and despite all the hype - the demand for the kind we can produce at the current prices - just isn't that big. As I recall, this is because what can be produced at scale today is, to speak, crap. Authentic, reasonably pure, graphene has all sorts of amazing properties when created in labs but you have these companies producing more or less junk that doesn't get any larger-scale production going. In ways, "starting a company" to produce graphene now has been the source of a lot of the problem. Scientists attempting to apply graphene results wind-up buying junk graphene and failing. The point of large scale state investment over time, not dependent on immediately making money, is to get beyond these problems. There's the risk that even a lot of spending won't get you a way of producing good graphene at scale - well that's the risk. State finance is all about being the way such large-scale risk can be taken.
- cosmie 8y ago
  This. There was a paper published recently[1], and a writeup in Nature[2] about it, which tested 60 different suppliers of graphene and found virtually all of them were junk and didn't match the ISO definition of graphene (i.e. 10 or fewer layers of atoms). [1] https://doi.org/10.1002/adma.201803784 https://doi.org/10.1002/adma.201803784 [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06939-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06939-4
  - ajuc 8y ago
    This is a study about graphene produced by liquid‐phase exfoliation. The company I linked produces graphene of supposedly better quality by chemical vapour deposition. It apparently still isn't the kind we want (because otherwise they would be much more famous and rich).

by ajuc 8y ago

joe_the_user 8y ago

Turns out there are lots of different kinds of graphene, and despite all the hype - the demand for the kind we can produce at the current prices - just isn't that big. As I recall, this is because what can be produced at scale today is, to speak, crap. Authentic, reasonably pure, graphene has all sorts of amazing properties when created in labs but you have these companies producing more or less junk that doesn't get any larger-scale production going. In ways, "starting a company" to produce graphene now has been the source of a lot of the problem. Scientists attempting to apply graphene results wind-up buying junk graphene and failing. The point of large scale state investment over time, not dependent on immediately making money, is to get beyond these problems. There's the risk that even a lot of spending won't get you a way of producing good graphene at scale - well that's the risk. State finance is all about being the way such large-scale risk can be taken.

cosmie 8y ago
This. There was a paper published recently[1], and a writeup in Nature[2] about it, which tested 60 different suppliers of graphene and found virtually all of them were junk and didn't match the ISO definition of graphene (i.e. 10 or fewer layers of atoms). [1] https://doi.org/10.1002/adma.201803784 https://doi.org/10.1002/adma.201803784 [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06939-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06939-4
- ajuc 8y ago
  This is a study about graphene produced by liquid‐phase exfoliation. The company I linked produces graphene of supposedly better quality by chemical vapour deposition. It apparently still isn't the kind we want (because otherwise they would be much more famous and rich).