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It is a no-brainer there because they tax cars so heavily that it doesn't cost more to go electric. This is not organic demand but heavy market shaping by the
by outside1234 8y ago
It is a no-brainer there because they tax cars so heavily that it doesn't cost more to go electric. This is not organic demand but heavy market shaping by the government.
Not saying that is bad but it is not a signal of anything.
- jplayer01 8y agoIt's not like anybody's hiding this. It's even in the article. "In a bid to cut carbon emissions and air pollution, Norway exempts battery-driven cars from most taxes and offers benefits such as free parking and charging points to hasten a shift from diesel and petrol engines. " "“It was a small step closer to the 2025 goal,” by which time Norway’s parliament wants all new cars to be emissions-free, Oeyvind Solberg Thorsen, head of the NRF, told a conference. " It's clearly being driven by a government goal to hit a certain target by a certain year. That's fine (I'd even argue that's how it should be, but that would be beside the point).
- dominotw 8y agoHow do they make up for loss of tax revenue?
- nostromo 8y agoBy selling oil. A touch ironic, no?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- noselasd 8y agoIronic or not - I don't think you really mean they make up any lost tax on cars by selling oil - it's not like the oil sale increases by that virtue.
- floatrock 8y agoanother way of looking at it: realizing oil wealth is unsustainable and spending the cushion now to make the transition on their own terms instead of being forced to by climate uncertainty (annual record breaking fires, hurricanes, etc.) or market uncertainty (stranded assets).
- JKCalhoun 8y agoLooks that way. Of course oil is used in the production of plastics and other useful materials as well.
- xxs 8y agoasphalt too
- dominotw 8y agoyou mean by selling more oil?
- DSingularity 8y agoAvoiding downstream costs due to carbon emissions. Also arguable that this source of revenue in particular was small and they increased taxes to reduce purchases while maintaining same revenue levels.
- jjeaff 8y agoYou mean by selling oil and exporting those downstream carbon costs out of the country?
- nso 8y agoThat's part of norways income stream. But a smaller part than you'd probably imagine. 2018: https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/economy/governments-revenues/ https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/economy/governments-revenue... (check out the pie charts)
- genghizkhan 8y agoI suppose their oil wealth and sovereign wealth fund would help smooth over any problems here.
- YetAnotherNick 8y agoAFAIK sovereign wealth fund can't be used in Norway as per law.
- dominotw 8y agoyep ppl have learnt lessons from Venezuela.
- tolle 8y agoIraq actually. Or rather an Iraqi fella. There was an article on it here on Hacker News earlier. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9673157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9673157
- charlesdm 8y agoBut the yield it generates can?
- ceedan 8y agoThe article explains this in the first 2 sentences
- andai 8y agoWith news sites the way they are these days, I hardly ever actually click a link, I just read the top comments on HN.
- alkonaut 8y agoIt’s a very clear indication that adding a tax on internal combustion cars of say 100% can be a very effective way to achieve almost any fraction or sold cars being EVs. I’m not saying that’s a bad idea either, the question is how realistic a huge car tax is elsewhere in the world. That they had it in the past is a nice coincidence for them. Means they now get a “free” subsidy without making gas cars more expensive. Meanwhile in e.g Sweden polluting cars get a new added tax which is used to subsidize EV’s. It’s not nearly as high as in Norway however.
- koolba 8y agoI’d much rather have society agree on a tax on the thing we don’t like then try to arbitrarily pick the one we do (ie EV rebate). The alternative to buying a ICE car isn’t necessarily buying an EV car, it could be a bike, taking trains, taking ride services, or any combo of things.
- Scoundreller 8y agoWhich is why I prefer carbon/gas taxes. If you’re a very light driver (eg: a short commute to work and back. Some people make 2 trips a week: church and grocery store), your carbon footprint from buying a Tesla is probably higher than comparable ICE cars.
- zdragnar 8y agoRaising taxes on things like cars is a tax on poor and middle class people, whereas a subsidy for EV makes them more accessible to poor and middle class people (lower price = more purchases = larger second-hand market). > The alternative to buying a ICE car isn’t necessarily buying an EV car, it could be a bike, taking trains, taking ride services, or any combo of things. That's blatantly false for anyone not living in a metropolitan area. Ride-share / car rental places simply don't exist in many places out in the countryside, and a bike is only a partial substitute. Punishing people for bad behavior (buying ICE cars) only puts more people deeper into debt, and lowers the overall number of cars purchased by raising the market floor. Encouraging good behavior (making transit more available, subsidizing EV) encourages more people to consider alternatives to ICE such as EV who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it or wouldn't otherwise have access.
- unicornporn 8y ago> it is not a signal of anything. It is a signal that politics and policies[1] can make a difference, right? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/02/norway-electric-cars-subsidies-fossil-fuel https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/02/norway-electri...
- jjeaff 8y agoEveryone knows they make a difference. But things like this are so complicated that it's difficult to say whether it's a good difference or not.
- JKCalhoun 8y agoThat's it exactly. Unless Norway has some sort of autocratic dictatorship, the people are voting for representatives that support these measures. Very much a signal.
- Scoundreller 8y agoAren’t most democracies time-limited autocratic dictatorships?
- icebraining 8y agoNo, thanks to separation of powers.
- scarejunba 8y agoObviously not because of political parties, constitutions, and judiciaries.
- hn_throwaway_99 8y agoThat said, Norway is pretty-ethnically homogeneous country with a strong national identity and a population just below Wisconsin. I don't really think the political lessons from Norway are necessarily applicable at large.
- jononor 8y agoThis policy has been in place for a long time, but it is only in the last years that the majority is EV. So it may say something about EV being in a better shape these days compared to 10 years ago. And/or that even when the price is very favorable, a transition from fossil fueled vehicles to EV still takes many years.