15 ms·
The production and delivery numbers they came out with were very good and higher than most had expected. These numbers will allow them another profitable Q4 li
by wnorris 8y ago
The production and delivery numbers they came out with were very good and higher than most had expected. These numbers will allow them another profitable Q4 likely higher than their Q3 numbers.
The price cuts are likely to impact margins, but is in line with what Tesla had done with the Model S and X as production efficiencies allow them to reduce manufacturing costs.
The reaction looks like a big overreaction as the market is apt to do. Seems like there is a lot of Tesla hate on the internet for some odd reason these days.
- golfer 8y agoPeople are skeptical of Tesla because people are skeptical of Elon. His dozens of misleading statements and half-truths over the years have caught up with him.
- sandworm101 8y agoThe pot smoking and twitter insults also dont help.
- Derek_MK 8y agoNeither does the SEC investigation that got him for fraud EDIT: SEO > SEC - Context switching is hard
- mulmen 8y agoI don’t really see the problem with the pot smoking honestly, why is anyone wound up about that? Do you care if he drinks or smokes cigarettes? What about his workout routine? Twitter insults aren’t impressive.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoRegardless of how you feel about smoking pot the CEO of a publicly traded company is expected to be prudent enough to avoid doing things that are federally illegal on camera with the beforehand knowledge that the footage will be made public. I personally don't care what Elon, or anyone does in his spare time but smoking pot on TV (or podcast, basically the same thing since both are going to be broadcast to viewers) shows a willingness to take risks with the wrong amount of upsides relative to their downsides and wall street doesn't like that.
- mulmen 8y agoThe Joe Rogan podcast is on national TV now? I thought the whole point of it was that it wasn’t a network show.
- dragonwriter 8y ago> The Joe Rogan podcast is on national TV now? The part of it in discussion was, because of its content. Everything that is recorded and available outside of a narrowly controlled group is effectively national TV, in that if you do something that would be newsworthy, that's where it's going to end up. Anyone in a PR-sensitive role, including any CEO, ought to be aware of that.
- mulmen 8y agoThe comment I replied to was edited after I replied. Musk didn’t smoke weed on a national broadcast but I agree he should be aware his actions anywhere could be reported at a national level.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoI thought he did it on some evening comedy show. I'm probably wrong about that.
- mulmen 8y agoHe did it on the Joe Rogan podcast.
- londons_explore 8y agoI wonder what wall Street would think of a company CEO going and buying a lottery ticket...
- detaro 8y agoMore relevant to SpaceX: It was notable that the CEO of a defense contractor publicly uses drugs, since that sector is fairly strict about these things. Smoking weed is a problem for security clearances etc?
- Rebelgecko 8y agoEven though the acts themselves aren't that different, smoking a cigarette on camera doesn't potentially cause him to lose his security clearance (which could make him less effective at his job).
- notahacker 8y agoI don't have a problem with drinking and am sure most CEOs drink at networking events considered part of their job, but I'd think a CEO showing off by downing a couple of shots on a comedian's podcast was a bit of a liability, even if it wasn't his idea. More so if their leadership was already under scrutiny and one of their businesses was entirely reliant on the patronage of an abstinence-obsessed government that wouldn't let their contractors' staff anywhere near their projects if they'd been known to have touched alcohol recently. And there's no defending the lame 420 joke which fits in the same bracket (the sort of joke that was a pretty pathetic way of getting lunchtime detention as a teenager, never mind a hefty fine and stripped of a measure of control of one of your companies). You can be 100% pro legalisation and in favour of CEOs smoking pot every day if it works for them and still think Musk's acted like an absolute idiot over it.
- drcross 8y ago>I'd think a CEO showing off by downing a couple of shots on a comedian's podcast was a bit of a liability. You need to lighten up. Musk doesn't owe anything to anyone, if anything he garnered interest for selling more cars to the 18 million people that watched that podcast. If the CEO of <any fortune 500 company> was on the same podcast, do you think it would have been anywhere close to as entertaining?
- heavyset_go 8y ago> Musk doesn't owe anything to anyone Investors and board members definitely think otherwise.
- notahacker 8y ago> Musk doesn't owe anything to anyone, if anything he garnered interest for selling more cars to the 18 million people that watched that podcast He owes a lot to his shareholders, and wiped 9% off the value of Tesla with that podcast. If he has to be entertaining as well as reassuring them he's also laser focused on solving production challenges - and CEO of an engineering company is definitely a job description where being dull is no disadvantage - there were certainly better ways of doing it.
- hourislate 8y agoPerhaps the coke/stripper parties and Insider Trading on Wall ST would have been a better approach. I'm sure the SEC would have found that more appropriate and acceptable.
- andrewtbham 8y agoThis narrative doesn't resonate with me. Forward looking statements are speculative, especially when you're innovating new technologies. I personally trust Elon Musk and I am a large investor. I don't expect him to hit all his targets, but I trust him to only raise money on the heels of good news.
- ivraatiems 8y agoCharacterizing lying to the SEC and calling a Thai cave rescuer a "pedo" as such is stretching the definition of "forward-looking statement." Musk has always been largely bluster, but now the bluster is hurting people, and his companies as well. He's the biggest liability Tesla has. I don't know what he's done to earn my trust, or any investor's.
- mav3rick 8y agoIf bluster results in the first truly desirable EV cars and the first autonomous reusable rocket then more bluster please. The rage machine against Elon here is preposterous. At the end of the day , is he making the world a better place ?. No amount of contrived answers involving Twitter can change the vehement "Yes" to that question.
- ivraatiems 8y ago> At the end of the day, is he making the world a better place? With rare exception, I don't subscribe to the idea of "key men" in general, and especially not in this case. Even if I did, I don't think that Musk is acting in a way that makes him an asset. I agree that Tesla, for instance, is doing good and important work. However, I think attributing Tesla's success, and net impact on the world to Musk alone is unsupported by evidence. That's because aside from initial investment/PR, and sufficient cult of personality to inspire people to work for him at the start, I don't see what Elon Musk is contributing to the company's work at this point. In fact, I see him as a liability and I think Tesla would be better off without him. Candidly, I also believe that if Musk was less driven by his own ego, as he appears to be, he'd see that and step aside.
- nikofeyn 8y agomusk isn’t the only reason i dislike tesla. they are overhyped by their customer base because the cars are “cool”, but i personally find the overall design and fit and finish to be lacking. they don’t feel like the expensive cars they are. tesla also has a feature called auto-pilot, which has killed people using it in non-insane scenarios given the name and marketing. i distrust their safety ratings. tesla also acts like they are the only game in town. they aren’t even the largest electric vehicle maker in the world.
- Pica_soO 8y agoOr maybe, just maybe, besides an awesome CEO, its just another company, who lootboxed the investors and they are trying to wake up.
- qroshan 8y agoAt $50B Market Cap, Tesla should be delivering at least $2B Annual profits. It's clear Tesla has run through higher margin demand. There aren't many people in the world who can afford a $50,000 car. Tesla is a niche market car, but priced as a mass market (like iPhones) product. Expect Tesla's sustainable profit to be around $500 Mil per year and it's share price must be cut in half to justify that
- dominotw 8y agoWouldn't they be used as self driving pods in future? 50k is low end for that.
- btian 8y ago> At $50B Market Cap, Tesla should be delivering at least $2B Annual profits. LOL what? Show me another company with $50B market cap growing at 50% a year on the top line to deliver $2B in profits. I'll wait.
- qroshan 8y agoHuh? Did you compare Q3 and Q4 numbers, the growth has pretty much reached steady state. 90,000 per quarter is what Tesla will be and probably 500 Million annual profit. 50% profit growth is delusional at this stage
- jacobkranz 8y agoI think OP's point is that Tesla isn't just a car company but they're also an energy storage & solar producer. While the car biz may have be leveling off (and that's not accounting for the semi & modely Y launching this year and next respectively), their energy storage is starting to take off along with the solar roofs so this provides huge growth opportunities in the future.
- conception 8y agoNot sure if you're being sarcastic or not but Musk had become a liability for Tesla for certain. The once "Tony Stark" has had a serious of Twitter meltdowns and absurd business proposals.
- wnorris 8y agolol...he had a spell with some poor choices no doubt, but calling him a liability is a little much. One hopes he learned from his episodes. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/19/neil-degrasse-tyson-elon-musk-is-the-most-important-person-in-tech.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/19/neil-degrasse-tyson-elon-mus...
- Derek_MK 8y agoHe caused the SEC investigation that probably impacted them enough to miss the targets mentioned in the article. He also has a DOJ investigation in progress against him and Tesla. He is a liability.
- djtriptych 8y agoTesla's product is their stock. Musk is a liability iff removing him would cause the stock price to go up. I highly doubt that.
- mulmen 8y agoYou can’t be serious, that is not how the stock market works. Tesla sells cars, cars are their product. You could make an argument they are some kind of energy company with the powerwalls and solar gear.
- tomp 8y agoPeople are buying into Elon’s vision, Tesla is just a vehiclefor realizing this vision. Without Elon, Tesla is astagnating company, and people will buy whatever Elon comes up with next instead.
- 8y ago
- dqpb 8y agoMy feeling is that there is a coordinated media attack against major US tech companies.
- gamblor956 8y agoThe thing about massive conspiracies is that it only takes a single participant to leak their existence. And for a conspiracy like what you're suggesting, there would be tens of thousands of participants. It's time to let reality back in and accept that there is no media conspiracy. The big tech companies overreached and now the roosters are coming home to roost after 2 decades of largely unearned fawning media coverage.
- Something1234 8y agoIt could also be that the US tech companies are just really good whipping boys or they subscribe to any publicity is good publicity.
- kadendogthing 8y agoAnd how do you explain the past couple of years of uncritial, overly positive media coverage these companies have received? The media coverage that has created a rabid fanbase that surrounds these tech-personalities, making it near impossible to discuss the reality of the tech and finances of these companies? Having to face consequences for your actions isn't a conspiracy. People reporting on these realities is not a conspiracy. It's long, long over due.
- tivert 8y ago> My feeling is that there is a coordinated media attack against major US tech companies. Or the media has stopped looking at them through the rose-colored glasses of tech-optimism, and started seeing them as what they are: massive, powerful corporations that are capable of harm and dishonesty in addition to innovation.
- mhermher 8y agoThey missed expectations on production and delivery. Semi-relatedly this: https://electrek.co/2017/08/03/tesla-model-3-elon-musk-production-reservations/ https://electrek.co/2017/08/03/tesla-model-3-elon-musk-produ... Right before a debt offering btw.
- ken47 8y ago> is in line with what Tesla had done with the Model S and X as production efficiencies allow them to reduce manufacturing costs. Straight from Tesla's press release: "we are taking steps to partially absorb the reduction of the federal EV tax credit" So no, this price reduction is not "in line" with anything in Tesla's past.
- Jarbooski 8y agoThe delivery numbers were below expectations. That's why there was a sell-off.
- csours 8y ago> "The production and delivery numbers they came out with were very good and higher than most had expected." Every Model 3 they are producing is relatively expensive and already has a buyer. What happens when they get to the end of the list of relatively well off buyers? Certainly there will still be demand, but it will be less profitable.
- toomuchtodo 8y agoThey are maximizing for profit on each unit sold. Presumably, they’ll have had a reduction in debt to service with payments made from upfront higher margin vehicles. It’s not a problem as long as they stay ahead of the curve margin wise. Lots of market demand outside of the US, which is why vehicle manufacturing firehose is pointed at Europe and China now with the US tax credit reduction.
- bdhess 8y agoWhat are you comparing it to when you say "relatively expensive"? I've read reviews comparing it favorably to a BMW 3 Series, which is in the same price range.
- tedivm 8y agoThe Model S was in the same price range as the BMW 3 Series but only when you take into account the tax credit which just expired. Without that tax credit there's a difference of over $7k. That's part of the reason why Tesla is dropping their prices a bit now.
- jsight 8y agoThe Model S is quite a bit more expensive than a 3 Series. Perhaps you meant the Model 3, which is still competitively priced with the 3 series?
- vesrah 8y agoHow was the Model S in the same price range as a 3 series? A Model S started around $70k after the tax credit was taken into account, a 3 series starts at about $40k. Do you mean the Model 3, rather than the S?
- jacquesm 8y agoThere is a lot more room for margin erosion when your margins are high to begin with. So even if the S and X models had reductions in manufacturing costs there was a lot of room to play with in the first place. The model 3 has much less room.
- reaperducer 8y agoSeems like there is a lot of Tesla hate on the internet for some odd reason these days. In part because there is a lot of money to be made in spreading Tesla hate on the internet these days. Think short sellers, etc...