10 ms·

The Worst Interface Ever: The Self-Destruct Switch (2004)

114 points by waterhouse 8y ago

mirimir 8y ago
I was expecting something like https://www.kali.org/tutorials/emergency-self-destruction-luks-kali/ https://www.kali.org/tutorials/emergency-self-destruction-lu...
ams6110 8y ago
Would seem to me pretty simple to interlock the switch with the starter so that it would be impossible to start the car with the switch in the wrong position.
- smacktoward 8y ago
  That's Tog's point. It could have been designed to make it much easier and safer to use. The people who made it just didn't think those kinds of considerations were worth putting time into. > Calling the company was of no help. The engineer who answered responded that nothing was wrong with the design of the switch that extremely careful operation would not overcome. He’d been using it for months with no problem. How this analogizes to software is left as an exercise for the reader.
  - Pica_soO 8y ago
    If a lawyer would look at the contract, he would say we fulfilled the requirements of the contract. If a customer would look at the contract, he would say "Never again, and will warn everyone i meet".
- floren 8y ago
  I don't know about more recent vehicles, but on older cars it would have been as simple as man-in-the-middling the ignition wire which runs to the solenoid. Switch is in tow, the key won't start the car but things like accessories will still work.
- interruptor 8y ago
  Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronization_gear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronization_gear
- greenyoda 8y ago
  That still wouldn't stop you from towing the car with the switch in the wrong position, which also destroys the transmission.
  - jacoblambda 8y ago
    Correct me if I am wrong but with the switch off (i.e. in position for driving) the lubrication does not occur same as if the modification had not been added. So wouldn't it still be an improvement as functionality is just as good as before and 50% of the failure modes are eliminated? Obviously you want to find a solution for that other 50% but at least you've made an improvement without any regressions.
    - greenyoda 8y ago
      Yeah, a 50% solution is definitely better than nothing (but you'd still need to be very careful since a mistake could still fry your transmission).
  - ams6110 8y ago
    Towing will destroy the transmission in most automatic transmission cars. That is why most of them specify flatbed towing in the owner's manual.
    - greenyoda 8y ago
      1. If a car has front-wheel drive, why would towing it with the rear wheels on the ground destroy the transmission? The rear wheels aren't even connected to the transmission. (I can see that it might be a problem for four-wheel-drive vehicles.) 2. The article specifically states that Lexus originally thought that towing this car would be OK: "Lexus didn’t know they had a problem when they released the car, so they put a four year warranty on the transmission, specifically certifying it for towing."
ChrisSD 8y ago
Reminds me of when PCs came with a voltage switch. With one flick of a switch... goodbye PSU. Of course the difference is it only needed to be set once.
- ralph84 8y ago
  Except when you move the PC. About 15 years ago I had an awesome demo all set up and ready to go on one of those cube PCs. Only problem was I did the setup and testing in the US, and the demo itself was in Germany. I came prepared with the correct power cable for Germany, but of course I forgot to switch the PSU to 240V and there went my awesome demo.
- webignition 8y ago
  Except when a curious child flips the switch when the PC is running.
  - ChrisSD 8y ago
    I can confirm that a curious 10 year was indeed responsible for the loss of at least one PSU. At least he learned something.
    - tempestn 8y ago
      Ha, I can't count the number of times I've said to my kids some version of, "Don't push buttons if you don't know what they do!" I've mostly drilled it out of them by 6 and 4, but it was a process. Of course the new manifestation of childhood curiosity was my six year old daughter testing out the piece of sandpaper that came with a craft set she got for Christmas... on our kitchen table. (Fortunately it was already a bit "rustic".) Can't blame them though—I clearly remember at that age putting the garden hose into the dryer vent, with no clue what would happen. Dryer was in the basement too. I recall being mostly bemused by my parents' reactions. (It was on for quite a while too—I think it flooded more than one room.)
      - jfries 8y ago
not_kurt_godel 8y ago
> Calling the company was of no help. The engineer who answered responded that nothing was wrong with the design of the switch that extremely careful operation would not overcome. He’d been using it for months with no problem. My blood pressure rose reading this. Absolutely infuriating response. I can't stand it when engineers fail to recognize how human factors relate to the systems they build. Makes me want to grab them by the ear like a child and put them in timeout until they come to their senses.
- csours 8y ago
  I recently re-watched "This is broken" and I think there's a subtle way things are broken related to "not my job" - called "I did my job". In any kind of non-trivial engineering, you have a spec to meet, and it is difficult to meet that spec under given constraints, so you don't go and look for more problems. You are happy that you did your job. 0. https://youtu.be/aNDiHSHYI_c?t=235 https://youtu.be/aNDiHSHYI_c?t=235
- michalc 8y ago
  There could be something else at play in the call... they could have been scared that if a representative of Lexus admitted there was a problem with the design, they would be admitting liability.
  - c22 8y ago
    He didn't call a representative of Lexus.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      True. And TFA doesn't name the company: > ... but it is a real, aftermarket device for Lexus RX-300 series cars being sold by a company in Florida. However, parent's argument applies to "company in Florida". Also, ironically, to the author of TFA. I'm guessing that it's not an accident that he doesn't name "company in Florida".
- mcv 8y ago
yholio 8y ago
The follow-up post is a must read: in the panic ensuing after a failed switch flip, they made a series of disastrous mistakes that almost caused a fatal road accident. The animality of the human mind is fascinating, all it takes is a small change in the perception of external threats to drive people utterly bonkers. Puts all kinds of things from wars to conjugal murder into perspective - what is utterly nonsensical to a calm and rational individual may appear as the only way to go for someone who is distressed.
- StavrosK 8y ago
  Where is that post?
  - Hodglim 8y ago
    https://asktog.com/columns/067PanicCaseStudy.html https://asktog.com/columns/067PanicCaseStudy.html
    - StavrosK 8y ago
      Thanks!
  - shawabawa3 8y ago
    https://asktog.com/columns/067PanicCaseStudy.html https://asktog.com/columns/067PanicCaseStudy.html
    - StavrosK 8y ago
      Thank you!
- craigsmansion 8y ago
  Only one thing stands out: "I was certainly ill-equipped." So far in these posts everything has been blamed --engineering decisions, the psychology of panic -- except the mindset of the adventurers. "Fight and flight" is not a normal way to describe a reaction to an ordinary oil-spill, even in a slightly less than extremely convenient location when you have the comfort and convenience of a complete house, which is even mobile by itself, at your disposition. I think some psychological factors are left unmentioned here, with hints of spousal disagreement, grudges, an unwillingness to admit failure, and a desire to divert blame to external factors (the posts in question being an example by themselves). There was definitely a chain of ill-considered decisions that almost lead to a disastrous outcome, but it seems like a lot of the actions were outside of the realm of the normal default choices, making me suspect there were unmentioned factors at play. Either that or the adventurers were hopelessly unsuited for their chosen adventure at that time. "The animality of the human mind" would have significance in describing high-pressure and continuously mounting situations where in retrospect some baffling choices can be explained by instinctive choices that turned out to be counter intuitive. I guess: - "I don't want to deal with this right now!", - "Fine, I don't need a navigator anyway!" could fit the description, but seeing how it could easily have been: - "I don't want to deal with this right now!" - "Maybe you're right. I'm sorry. I'll put on the kettle and make some tea. Then I'll get online and see what I can drum up." the story really ends up having a "Why the stupid things that happened weren't really my fault" tone.
namdnay 8y ago
Slightly off topic, but in the current context of environmental awareness, let me get this straight: They're travelling across the continent in what I can only describe as the vehicle from Meet the Parents, and for what I presume are short local trips, they bring along... a Lexus RX !? This is the standard European solution to the same problem: https://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/motorbike_scooter_carrier.html https://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/motorbike_scooter_carrier....
- pjc50 8y ago
  I've seen more tagalong cars in Europe than I have motorcycles, but usually very small ones (Nissan Micra etc). More common is bicycles - you are after all on holiday.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  I'm not sure "buy another vehicle" is necessarily the environmentally conscious approach, nor is a scooter likely to be the best approach in many areas of the US you might vacation to - for both distance and weather reasons.
  - namdnay 8y ago
    Sure, but an RX? That's the biggest Lexus you can buy in Europe..
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      In the US, an RX is in the "mid-size crossover" class. Things are bigger here, including the RVs themselves. Check out the pics, it's the size of a small apartment: https://asktog.com/misc/countryCoach.html https://asktog.com/misc/countryCoach.html
    - perl4ever 8y ago
      This article is from 2004. The RX was a smaller vehicle 15 or so years ago. At this point, what Lexus is selling under the same nameplate is considerably different.
- 8y ago
pjc50 8y ago
So a key element in this story appears to be the role of fear in switching off the brain and reverting to old behaviour while skipping the checklist. And twice it seems to be caused by the human environment: middle America seems to be a hostile place?
crystaln 8y ago
Sometimes we get the interface we deserve.
nailer 8y ago
To read the article: document.body.style.maxWidth = '800px' document.body.style.margin = '0 auto' document.body.style.font = '14pt Georgia'
- guitarbill 8y ago
  Or reader mode in Firefox. But agree, there's something hilarious about a guy complaining about bad design interactions - meanwhile his website is almost unreadable on a desktop PC, with whole paragraphs stretching the length of the window.
  - jl6 8y ago
    I'm willing to cut the website some slack. It's 15 years old and still online. It's also only 35KB and loads fast. By comparison to the cesspool that is any modern monetized website, this was a joy to read.
    - guitarbill 8y ago
      Yeah, fair enough. In 2004, I think I was still running 1024x768, so this would have been less of a problem then, and newer articles have a better layout: https://asktog.com/atc/principles-of-interaction-design/ https://asktog.com/atc/principles-of-interaction-design/ (2014)
      - nailer 8y ago
        Snake text (ie, copying existing learnings from newspaper column widths) was already a thing in 1996 > The column was the first example of what the Web magazine Salon (www.salon1999.com) dismissed as "snake text," meaning the story ran in one long, narrow column. While the reader has to constantly scroll through snake text, the narrow width is far easier to read than, say, oh-I-dunno, Salon's ripped-from-a-magazine page format. https://www.wired.com/1996/11/web-dreams-2/ https://www.wired.com/1996/11/web-dreams-2/
    - wffurr 8y ago
SigmundA 8y ago
This is why when I got my RV I also got a Jeep wrangler to go along with. Its one of the few vehicles left that can be towed "4 down" without significant modification. It has no steering wheel lock and you simply put the 4wd transfer case in neutral, no transmission lubrication issues. Mopar even sells a wiring harness that ties into the rear lights directly to properly operate the brake lights from the RV. The jeep is also a great vehicle for sight seeing especially in remote areas.
tabtab 8y ago
Another anecdote about an arrogant technician and UI's. When Ebay was a young company, I decided to give it a try. There was an auction status notice that was supposed to appear on the screen that I missed. My tech support session went something like this: Me: I didn't know that such and such occured because the status messages appear on the right of the screen, and my monitor is too small to show the right-hand side. Technician: You are correct. I suggest you adjust your Windows DPI setting so that more fits on the screen. Me: I already tried that, but it makes the characters too small in general. It's hard on the eyes. I'm using a fairly old monitor. Technician: I suggest you buy a newer and bigger monitor then. Me: Other users may have the same problem; not everybody has new monitors. Can't you move the status messages so they are not on the far right? Technician: Sorry, we can't do that. Please buy a new monitor if you want to use our site. I stopped using Ebay for a while. At least back then you could easily talk to an actual technician who knew the system. Now you'd probably have to go through middle-ware AI and script-reading minimum-wagers who may be diplomatic yet useless.

114 points by waterhouse 8y ago

I was expecting something like https://www.kali.org/tutorials/emergency-self-destruction-luks-kali/ https://www.kali.org/tutorials/emergency-self-destruction-lu...

ams6110 8y ago

Would seem to me pretty simple to interlock the switch with the starter so that it would be impossible to start the car with the switch in the wrong position.

smacktoward 8y ago
That's Tog's point. It could have been designed to make it much easier and safer to use. The people who made it just didn't think those kinds of considerations were worth putting time into. > Calling the company was of no help. The engineer who answered responded that nothing was wrong with the design of the switch that extremely careful operation would not overcome. He’d been using it for months with no problem. How this analogizes to software is left as an exercise for the reader.
- Pica_soO 8y ago
  If a lawyer would look at the contract, he would say we fulfilled the requirements of the contract. If a customer would look at the contract, he would say "Never again, and will warn everyone i meet".
floren 8y ago
I don't know about more recent vehicles, but on older cars it would have been as simple as man-in-the-middling the ignition wire which runs to the solenoid. Switch is in tow, the key won't start the car but things like accessories will still work.
interruptor 8y ago
Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronization_gear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronization_gear
greenyoda 8y ago
That still wouldn't stop you from towing the car with the switch in the wrong position, which also destroys the transmission.
- jacoblambda 8y ago
  Correct me if I am wrong but with the switch off (i.e. in position for driving) the lubrication does not occur same as if the modification had not been added. So wouldn't it still be an improvement as functionality is just as good as before and 50% of the failure modes are eliminated? Obviously you want to find a solution for that other 50% but at least you've made an improvement without any regressions.
  - greenyoda 8y ago
    Yeah, a 50% solution is definitely better than nothing (but you'd still need to be very careful since a mistake could still fry your transmission).
- ams6110 8y ago
  Towing will destroy the transmission in most automatic transmission cars. That is why most of them specify flatbed towing in the owner's manual.
  - greenyoda 8y ago
    1. If a car has front-wheel drive, why would towing it with the rear wheels on the ground destroy the transmission? The rear wheels aren't even connected to the transmission. (I can see that it might be a problem for four-wheel-drive vehicles.) 2. The article specifically states that Lexus originally thought that towing this car would be OK: "Lexus didn’t know they had a problem when they released the car, so they put a four year warranty on the transmission, specifically certifying it for towing."

ChrisSD 8y ago

Reminds me of when PCs came with a voltage switch. With one flick of a switch... goodbye PSU. Of course the difference is it only needed to be set once.

ralph84 8y ago
Except when you move the PC. About 15 years ago I had an awesome demo all set up and ready to go on one of those cube PCs. Only problem was I did the setup and testing in the US, and the demo itself was in Germany. I came prepared with the correct power cable for Germany, but of course I forgot to switch the PSU to 240V and there went my awesome demo.
webignition 8y ago
Except when a curious child flips the switch when the PC is running.
- ChrisSD 8y ago
  I can confirm that a curious 10 year was indeed responsible for the loss of at least one PSU. At least he learned something.
  - tempestn 8y ago
    Ha, I can't count the number of times I've said to my kids some version of, "Don't push buttons if you don't know what they do!" I've mostly drilled it out of them by 6 and 4, but it was a process. Of course the new manifestation of childhood curiosity was my six year old daughter testing out the piece of sandpaper that came with a craft set she got for Christmas... on our kitchen table. (Fortunately it was already a bit "rustic".) Can't blame them though—I clearly remember at that age putting the garden hose into the dryer vent, with no clue what would happen. Dryer was in the basement too. I recall being mostly bemused by my parents' reactions. (It was on for quite a while too—I think it flooded more than one room.)
    - jfries 8y ago

not_kurt_godel 8y ago

> Calling the company was of no help. The engineer who answered responded that nothing was wrong with the design of the switch that extremely careful operation would not overcome. He’d been using it for months with no problem. My blood pressure rose reading this. Absolutely infuriating response. I can't stand it when engineers fail to recognize how human factors relate to the systems they build. Makes me want to grab them by the ear like a child and put them in timeout until they come to their senses.

csours 8y ago
I recently re-watched "This is broken" and I think there's a subtle way things are broken related to "not my job" - called "I did my job". In any kind of non-trivial engineering, you have a spec to meet, and it is difficult to meet that spec under given constraints, so you don't go and look for more problems. You are happy that you did your job. 0. https://youtu.be/aNDiHSHYI_c?t=235 https://youtu.be/aNDiHSHYI_c?t=235
michalc 8y ago
There could be something else at play in the call... they could have been scared that if a representative of Lexus admitted there was a problem with the design, they would be admitting liability.
- c22 8y ago
  He didn't call a representative of Lexus.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    True. And TFA doesn't name the company: > ... but it is a real, aftermarket device for Lexus RX-300 series cars being sold by a company in Florida. However, parent's argument applies to "company in Florida". Also, ironically, to the author of TFA. I'm guessing that it's not an accident that he doesn't name "company in Florida".
mcv 8y ago

yholio 8y ago

The follow-up post is a must read: in the panic ensuing after a failed switch flip, they made a series of disastrous mistakes that almost caused a fatal road accident. The animality of the human mind is fascinating, all it takes is a small change in the perception of external threats to drive people utterly bonkers. Puts all kinds of things from wars to conjugal murder into perspective - what is utterly nonsensical to a calm and rational individual may appear as the only way to go for someone who is distressed.

StavrosK 8y ago
Where is that post?
- Hodglim 8y ago
  https://asktog.com/columns/067PanicCaseStudy.html https://asktog.com/columns/067PanicCaseStudy.html
  - StavrosK 8y ago
    Thanks!
- shawabawa3 8y ago
  https://asktog.com/columns/067PanicCaseStudy.html https://asktog.com/columns/067PanicCaseStudy.html
  - StavrosK 8y ago
    Thank you!
craigsmansion 8y ago
Only one thing stands out: "I was certainly ill-equipped." So far in these posts everything has been blamed --engineering decisions, the psychology of panic -- except the mindset of the adventurers. "Fight and flight" is not a normal way to describe a reaction to an ordinary oil-spill, even in a slightly less than extremely convenient location when you have the comfort and convenience of a complete house, which is even mobile by itself, at your disposition. I think some psychological factors are left unmentioned here, with hints of spousal disagreement, grudges, an unwillingness to admit failure, and a desire to divert blame to external factors (the posts in question being an example by themselves). There was definitely a chain of ill-considered decisions that almost lead to a disastrous outcome, but it seems like a lot of the actions were outside of the realm of the normal default choices, making me suspect there were unmentioned factors at play. Either that or the adventurers were hopelessly unsuited for their chosen adventure at that time. "The animality of the human mind" would have significance in describing high-pressure and continuously mounting situations where in retrospect some baffling choices can be explained by instinctive choices that turned out to be counter intuitive. I guess: - "I don't want to deal with this right now!", - "Fine, I don't need a navigator anyway!" could fit the description, but seeing how it could easily have been: - "I don't want to deal with this right now!" - "Maybe you're right. I'm sorry. I'll put on the kettle and make some tea. Then I'll get online and see what I can drum up." the story really ends up having a "Why the stupid things that happened weren't really my fault" tone.

namdnay 8y ago

Slightly off topic, but in the current context of environmental awareness, let me get this straight: They're travelling across the continent in what I can only describe as the vehicle from Meet the Parents, and for what I presume are short local trips, they bring along... a Lexus RX !? This is the standard European solution to the same problem: https://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/motorbike_scooter_carrier.html https://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/motorbike_scooter_carrier....

pjc50 8y ago
I've seen more tagalong cars in Europe than I have motorcycles, but usually very small ones (Nissan Micra etc). More common is bicycles - you are after all on holiday.
ceejayoz 8y ago
I'm not sure "buy another vehicle" is necessarily the environmentally conscious approach, nor is a scooter likely to be the best approach in many areas of the US you might vacation to - for both distance and weather reasons.
- namdnay 8y ago
  Sure, but an RX? That's the biggest Lexus you can buy in Europe..
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    In the US, an RX is in the "mid-size crossover" class. Things are bigger here, including the RVs themselves. Check out the pics, it's the size of a small apartment: https://asktog.com/misc/countryCoach.html https://asktog.com/misc/countryCoach.html
  - perl4ever 8y ago
    This article is from 2004. The RX was a smaller vehicle 15 or so years ago. At this point, what Lexus is selling under the same nameplate is considerably different.
8y ago

pjc50 8y ago

So a key element in this story appears to be the role of fear in switching off the brain and reverting to old behaviour while skipping the checklist. And twice it seems to be caused by the human environment: middle America seems to be a hostile place?

crystaln 8y ago

Sometimes we get the interface we deserve.

nailer 8y ago

To read the article: document.body.style.maxWidth = '800px' document.body.style.margin = '0 auto' document.body.style.font = '14pt Georgia'

guitarbill 8y ago
Or reader mode in Firefox. But agree, there's something hilarious about a guy complaining about bad design interactions - meanwhile his website is almost unreadable on a desktop PC, with whole paragraphs stretching the length of the window.
- jl6 8y ago
  I'm willing to cut the website some slack. It's 15 years old and still online. It's also only 35KB and loads fast. By comparison to the cesspool that is any modern monetized website, this was a joy to read.
  - guitarbill 8y ago
    Yeah, fair enough. In 2004, I think I was still running 1024x768, so this would have been less of a problem then, and newer articles have a better layout: https://asktog.com/atc/principles-of-interaction-design/ https://asktog.com/atc/principles-of-interaction-design/ (2014)
    - nailer 8y ago
      Snake text (ie, copying existing learnings from newspaper column widths) was already a thing in 1996 > The column was the first example of what the Web magazine Salon (www.salon1999.com) dismissed as "snake text," meaning the story ran in one long, narrow column. While the reader has to constantly scroll through snake text, the narrow width is far easier to read than, say, oh-I-dunno, Salon's ripped-from-a-magazine page format. https://www.wired.com/1996/11/web-dreams-2/ https://www.wired.com/1996/11/web-dreams-2/
  - wffurr 8y ago

SigmundA 8y ago

This is why when I got my RV I also got a Jeep wrangler to go along with. Its one of the few vehicles left that can be towed "4 down" without significant modification. It has no steering wheel lock and you simply put the 4wd transfer case in neutral, no transmission lubrication issues. Mopar even sells a wiring harness that ties into the rear lights directly to properly operate the brake lights from the RV. The jeep is also a great vehicle for sight seeing especially in remote areas.

tabtab 8y ago

Another anecdote about an arrogant technician and UI's. When Ebay was a young company, I decided to give it a try. There was an auction status notice that was supposed to appear on the screen that I missed. My tech support session went something like this: Me: I didn't know that such and such occured because the status messages appear on the right of the screen, and my monitor is too small to show the right-hand side. Technician: You are correct. I suggest you adjust your Windows DPI setting so that more fits on the screen. Me: I already tried that, but it makes the characters too small in general. It's hard on the eyes. I'm using a fairly old monitor. Technician: I suggest you buy a newer and bigger monitor then. Me: Other users may have the same problem; not everybody has new monitors. Can't you move the status messages so they are not on the far right? Technician: Sorry, we can't do that. Please buy a new monitor if you want to use our site. I stopped using Ebay for a while. At least back then you could easily talk to an actual technician who knew the system. Now you'd probably have to go through middle-ware AI and script-reading minimum-wagers who may be diplomatic yet useless.