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Sweden is really expensive. And don’t get me started on the price of a beer in a bar. Make sure they pay you a lot. It’s definitely a clean and well organized
by dep_b 8y ago
Sweden is really expensive. And don’t get me started on the price of a beer in a bar. Make sure they pay you a lot.
It’s definitely a clean and well organized country with lots of nature. And it seems pretty great for tech.
But would never move there.
- badpun 8y ago> And don’t get me started on the price of a beer in a bar. Make sure they pay you a lot. Also, check out taxes. I was offered a contract position in Sweden recently, and the total tax burden was around 55%. Thanks, but no thanks.
- theredbox 8y agoSweden’s too egalitarian society with a lot of people not being economically active. You are subsidizing unwilling and lazy with insane taxes and you get nothing in return because of equality. You are probably well off compared to them but still cant afford an apartment.
- Moru 8y agoThis path of discussion is always fun to watch when it comes up. Does it work better in America with the lazy people, are they working better just because they make less money? Most people in Sweden can actually live on one job even if it is as a cleaner. The people that you call lazy is a very small percentage of the population. And just about all of them has some physical or psycical problem preventing them from getting a job. It is not a choice they have to either go work or starve. Noone chooses to starve just because it's fun. This mentality is very upsetting for us that has seen reality and does not live in a glass house.
- badpun 8y agoNordic countries are maybe the best place on earth if you’re not gifted in any way (academically, dexterity for manual labor etc.) and thus you work as a cleaner or other unskilled labor. For software engineers, on the other hand, there are better options.
- vasilipupkin 8y agoNonsense as Sweden has more per capita billionaires than US and more unicorn startups per capita than most US cities
- theredbox 8y agoTalk about arbitrary numbers you used.
- vasilipupkin 8y agoThese directly refute the claim that Sweden is only a good place for people who lack talent
- badpun 8y agoMost billionaires inherit their wealth? As for startups, it would be better to see the success ratio (how many people tried to create a startup vs how many succeed) and not just the number of survivors.
- vasilipupkin 8y agoWe are discussing the claim that talented people can’t succeed in Sweden. Yet, higher per capita number of unicorns in Sweden than in many other places, including US, shows that this claim is false
- badpun 8y ago> We are discussing the claim that talented people can’t succeed in Sweden. Who made this claim? Certainly not me. I claimed that, for an ordinary software engineer (i.e. not a startup founder), life will be better/easier in many other European countries.
- booboolayla 8y ago> higher per capita number of unicorns in Sweden than in many other places, including US You can only come to that conclusion by diluting what a "unicorn" means.
- beefield 8y ago> Sweden’s too egalitarian society Any examples of societies that are unequal[1] enough for you? [1] Not sure about a proper antonym here.
- hoebaggins 8y ago"It's cool to pay taxes" - Mona Sahlin, former leader of the Swedish Social Democratic Party.
- SiempreViernes 8y agoA better tagline than "strong and steady" at least
- theredbox 8y agoIt is not cool to be at the mercy of the government and their ability to run the state. They already failed with housing and healthcare. While the healthcare is free and accessible it is slow, bureacratic and costs you more at the end of the day than you would be willing to pay with your own money.
- myspy 8y agoAnd what is better? Healthcare costs a fortune as seen in the US and the system is failing, when you are a humanitarian and think equality to all humans is important. Same with housing. Rich fools conquering large towns and driving everyone else out. Does that benefit society? Of course when you support a system that everyone is his own best friend, you'll be happier when all the money you earn goes to you.
- robin_reala 8y agoAt the moment Swedes have less government that most other countries.
- geomark 8y agoBut the Swedes are fine with it, as is the author of the post, because they feel they get their money's worth. The author went into quite a bit of detail about he doesn't have to save much for his childrens' education and some other major expenses since most will be covered by tax-payers. Assuming of course that the government is fiscally prudent for the many years until your kids start higher education and you are elderly and need a lot of medical care. Given how popular it is around the world to run huge deficits that end up requiring major cuts to services I wouldn't bet my future on it.
- badpun 8y agoThe state-provided services are similar in Poland - most notably: free healthcare, free education up to university, state pension, disability insurance, some help in case the of financial hardship. Meanwhile, the total income tax burden is around 35% or 20% if you’re self-employed. There’s also plenty of other options, like the UK.
- badpun 8y agoCan the downvoter explain his/her decision? What is wrong with my post?
- queuq 8y agoWe are not fine with it. It's a bit off topic, but all I can see online about Sweden always sounds so perfect. But in reality it's not. There's a lot of us Swedes that are long from fine paying these taxes and then see our friends/relatives waiting for half a year waiting for treatment for cancer. And if you'd like private healthcare, Sweden taxes you extra for that. New car? Triple tax first 3 years.
- geomark 8y agoI was wondering if there are dissenting opinions. What percentage of Swedes do you estimate feel the way you do?
- 8y ago
- uvesten 8y agoCompared to most other countries in western europe, engineers are severely underpaid in Sweden. I’d definitely go elsewhere.
- theredbox 8y agoEngineers in europe are underpaid everywhere. You cant have a social democracy without squeezing everyone around you out of every penny.
- bauerd 8y agoUnderpaid in relation to what? The bay area?
- theredbox 8y agoIn relation to the rest of the world.
- gaius 8y agoUnderpaid relative to other professions. Lawyers, accountants, doctors, MBAs, etc etc. Even civil servants once the final salary pensions are factored in. Low pay, low prestige (if that matters to you), low job security, relative to others at a similar level of education, responsibility, etc.
- freyir 8y ago> "Lawyers, accountants, doctors, MBAs ... Low pay, low prestige" But that's true almost everywhere. In the U.S. it's true everywhere outside of the Bay Area, and perhaps Seattle. I love Boston, for example, but the city is chock full of bankers, lawyers, management consultants, and doctors whose incomes often dwarf those of engineers. And they're much higher on the social ladder. You're priced out of the most desirable neighborhoods in the city, and if you're single, dating is tougher. Obviously, it's not the end of the world. 99% of people don't make as much as investment bankers or white-shoe lawyers, and life goes on. But I think it explains in part why engineers are drawn to the Bay Area. The sky-high cost-of-living may make it a break-even proposition, but the bit of prestige engineers get there is a selling point.
- Moru 8y agoOn the other hand you have quite different mindset for work and parenthood. Everyone expects you to take at least half a year off work as a father. You still get payed during this time. Tax is calculated for you, all you need to do is sign (with your mobile ID). If you get sick you get payed after the first day. Hospital visit is about $8 per night. Doctor $20 per visit. It all depends on what is worth for you.
- kochthesecond 8y agoAmericans have the best care in the world (for those with decent insurance) but they also spend nearly 3x as much on health care than Britain. I wish I could cite these numbers, but I cant find the link anymore.
- egourlao 8y ago> Americans have the best care in the world I've been reading that a lot, but I can't find any decisive evidence supporting it - what leads you to think that?
- spiderfarmer 8y agoArrogance.
- pkz 8y agoThis source says 2x as much: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2674671 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/26746...
- kochthesecond 8y agoYeah, I didn't find my old source, it was a news article I remembered that compared spending per capita and typical time to treat a condition. I did find this though that says 2x: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2674671 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2674671
- 8y ago
- nabla9 8y agoYou have a point but you argue it badly. Price of beer in a bar is a tourist measure. Wage of an engineer is a expat measure. The article talks about living, working, procreating and eventually dying in Sweden, so lets talk about that. Many things are expensive in Sweden. When we think about living, we must consider things that are not expensive. Swedish type system arguably very strongly directs and limits the choices from the economic perspective. - Beer is always expensive but dental care is always cheap. You can't choose between chugging more beer and having hole in your choppers. You can choose to having the hole if you insist, but the beer is still expensive. - You can't choose between more beer and good education and healthcare for your children. The Government has made that choice for you. - Similarly you are forced to live with affordable broadband due to government regulation enforced on companies to protect the consumer. The question of living is Sweden should be decided by thinking how much your own goals align with the government enforced baseline. Temporarily embarrassed millionaires don't want to live in Sweden.
- mnsc 8y ago>Temporarily embarrassed millionaires don't want to live in Sweden. And most of all, we swedes who love to pay taxes don't want temporarily embarrassed millionaires to move here and start bitchig about "supporting lazy people"! You HN people really should stay were you are, regardless if that's in the states or in China, and if you are as brilliant as you say you are, fix that respective country first! Thanks in advance /not embarrassed lazy swedish fuck
- shanghaiaway 8y agoI guess you vote for SD
- sexydefinesher 8y agoThe opinion expressed in the parent is not specifically exclusive to SD voters, you would probably be even more likely to find it among the red-green block even.