5 ms·

> Hiring is extremely hard because of economy. What does this mean? Could you please elaborate?

by gnulinux 8y ago

paulcole 8y ago
Translation: We don’t offer much in the way of salary/benefits.
- thrwwyngnr 8y ago
  Actually we're pretty OK, BUT yeah, you're right: we'd be hiring faster if we offered more.
- gnulinux 8y ago
  I'm a little surprised nobody is calling this out in this thread (assuming you're right). OP claims to be in "one of the biggest startups in our field" but they do not offer competent salaries/benefits? This is the problem and basically every answer in this thread is peripheral. Of course, money isn't everything, but if you're not paying your engineers a competent compensation, you should not expect your competent engineers to stay in your business for years. Free market economies work both ways. EDIT: I wrote this comment before seeing @thrwwyngnr 's comment. I do not claim they're not offering competent salaries, but if they're not, this is the #1 factor and everything is #n, n>1.
  - thrwwyngnr 8y ago
    Thing is, the salaries are supposedly competitive and engineers don't really complain about it. We had two raises and a round of promotions in less than a year, and people keep leaving.
    - thiago_fm 8y ago
      If this was true, people wouldn't be leaving. https://study.com/academy/lesson/herzbergs-two-factor-theory-hygiene-factors-motivation.html https://study.com/academy/lesson/herzbergs-two-factor-theory... Please look here. It is funny you talk about being a MANAGER, I see a problem in hygiene(not the physical one) on your company. Give it a read on hygiene factors, know it well. Check if you are providing them. That is always the reason people leave in hordes. It is that simple. To be honest, if a company was really paying good salaries, as you claim, respected people(working time/conditions), I would only leave if the management were clowns. Are you one? I mean. I'm doing more management now and I know how people in management are afraid to seek into their own mistakes and defects and stick to saying like "Everything we do is great! I have no idea why we aren't successful", as doing that takes much less effort and courage than stepping up, finding out problems and really thinking through. People here in HN have commented a lot of things, but you really negate basic things, such as salary. "salary is competitive", that doesn't mean anything... Most of the companies are competitive, if they are willing to give me a similar salary to avoid all the problems your company currently has, which you even affirmed, why would I still work for your company(and fix its problems) if you wouldn't pay me _above_ the market? If you gave 2 raises in a year and can't say "we're paying like FAANG or above the market", barely "compatitive", it means your company 1 year ago was underpaying people and that, like a virus, has spread discontent in people. Those things are cancerous, even after they are gone, there is still the trauma. People don't like being underpaid, they feel like losers. That's why they move to other companies, even if you fix the problem.
thrwwyngnr 8y ago
Sorry, I completely mangled that sentence. I explain it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18798786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18798786
- gnulinux 8y ago
  Thanks for the extra info! I'm really sorry to say this, and this may be naive. Please downvote if you think this is not helpful. But imho: > [...] or leaving while complaining about different things. All but salary. They had two raises in 2018 and pretty much everyone left got a promotion in 2018. I'll be honest and guess most people said this probably thought about their compensation. It's not about whether you gave them a promotion, or a raise. If they found a job paying better, with better benefits, they're gonna switch. Now humans aren't robots so you can assume some people will stay in the company for various reasons. But if you see that people systematically leave your company, I think this might mean that you're paying less compared to other tech companies down the street. My 2c. Happy new year!
  - thrwwyngnr 8y ago
    Not naive. Except maybe I'm the one being naive here. You do have a point. Without more data it is hard to know if the information in the exit interviews were valid. People might indeed be leaving for better paying pastures but we missed that.

> Hiring is extremely hard because of economy. What does this mean? Could you please elaborate?

paulcole 8y ago

Translation: We don’t offer much in the way of salary/benefits.

thrwwyngnr 8y ago
Actually we're pretty OK, BUT yeah, you're right: we'd be hiring faster if we offered more.
gnulinux 8y ago
I'm a little surprised nobody is calling this out in this thread (assuming you're right). OP claims to be in "one of the biggest startups in our field" but they do not offer competent salaries/benefits? This is the problem and basically every answer in this thread is peripheral. Of course, money isn't everything, but if you're not paying your engineers a competent compensation, you should not expect your competent engineers to stay in your business for years. Free market economies work both ways. EDIT: I wrote this comment before seeing @thrwwyngnr 's comment. I do not claim they're not offering competent salaries, but if they're not, this is the #1 factor and everything is #n, n>1.
- thrwwyngnr 8y ago
  Thing is, the salaries are supposedly competitive and engineers don't really complain about it. We had two raises and a round of promotions in less than a year, and people keep leaving.
  - thiago_fm 8y ago
    If this was true, people wouldn't be leaving. https://study.com/academy/lesson/herzbergs-two-factor-theory-hygiene-factors-motivation.html https://study.com/academy/lesson/herzbergs-two-factor-theory... Please look here. It is funny you talk about being a MANAGER, I see a problem in hygiene(not the physical one) on your company. Give it a read on hygiene factors, know it well. Check if you are providing them. That is always the reason people leave in hordes. It is that simple. To be honest, if a company was really paying good salaries, as you claim, respected people(working time/conditions), I would only leave if the management were clowns. Are you one? I mean. I'm doing more management now and I know how people in management are afraid to seek into their own mistakes and defects and stick to saying like "Everything we do is great! I have no idea why we aren't successful", as doing that takes much less effort and courage than stepping up, finding out problems and really thinking through. People here in HN have commented a lot of things, but you really negate basic things, such as salary. "salary is competitive", that doesn't mean anything... Most of the companies are competitive, if they are willing to give me a similar salary to avoid all the problems your company currently has, which you even affirmed, why would I still work for your company(and fix its problems) if you wouldn't pay me _above_ the market? If you gave 2 raises in a year and can't say "we're paying like FAANG or above the market", barely "compatitive", it means your company 1 year ago was underpaying people and that, like a virus, has spread discontent in people. Those things are cancerous, even after they are gone, there is still the trauma. People don't like being underpaid, they feel like losers. That's why they move to other companies, even if you fix the problem.

thrwwyngnr 8y ago

Sorry, I completely mangled that sentence. I explain it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18798786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18798786

gnulinux 8y ago
Thanks for the extra info! I'm really sorry to say this, and this may be naive. Please downvote if you think this is not helpful. But imho: > [...] or leaving while complaining about different things. All but salary. They had two raises in 2018 and pretty much everyone left got a promotion in 2018. I'll be honest and guess most people said this probably thought about their compensation. It's not about whether you gave them a promotion, or a raise. If they found a job paying better, with better benefits, they're gonna switch. Now humans aren't robots so you can assume some people will stay in the company for various reasons. But if you see that people systematically leave your company, I think this might mean that you're paying less compared to other tech companies down the street. My 2c. Happy new year!
- thrwwyngnr 8y ago
  Not naive. Except maybe I'm the one being naive here. You do have a point. Without more data it is hard to know if the information in the exit interviews were valid. People might indeed be leaving for better paying pastures but we missed that.