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I know in the US you can call yourself a real estate agent, but not a Realtor unless you're part of the National Association of Realtors. This seems just to me:

by c3534l 8y ago

I know in the US you can call yourself a real estate agent, but not a Realtor unless you're part of the National Association of Realtors. This seems just to me: an organization shouldn't be allowed to steal a word from the English language like "engineer." But if you want to create your own brand and maintain its quality, you're more than welcome to invent a novel term and do that. But simply claiming by fiat that you have the legal right to sue someone for not following rules you've decided the rest of the world should follow despite having no moral or legal justification to do so? That's incredibly scummy.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
TheSoftwareGuy 8y ago
I don’t think that’s what is happening here. The suit seems to be predicated on him calling himself an engineer
- pstrateman 8y ago
  Did they invent the word engineer?
- greglindahl 8y ago
  Where I live, people call themselves engineers all of the time, and it's not considered to imply any particular license or degree or accreditation.
  - markdown 8y ago
    > and it's not considered to imply any particular license or degree or accreditation. Which sucks, doesn't it. It's advertising (ie. a lie) that's been repeated so much that it's become accepted. I know many software "engineers". They aren't real engineers, they just didn't like being called software programmers or coders.
    - you_owe_me 8y ago
      The words engineer and engineering connote high intellect, professionalism and most importantly "gravitas". So, it's not a surprise that software developers/coders/programmers (usually a snubbed crowd) love being called engineers.
    - LeifCarrotson 8y ago
      You can be a programmer without being an engineer. But there are thousands of electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, chemical engineers, computer engineers, and others who have degrees that say "engineer" and use engineering practices who are absolutely real engineers, if not Professional Engineers.
    - beatgammit 8y ago
      From the Wikipedia article on Engineer [1]: > Engineers, as practitioners of engineering, are professionals who invent, design, analyze, build, and test machines, systems, structures and materials to fulfill objectives and requirements while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety, and cost This fits a lot of software development (esp. "systems"). The process of developing software is an engineering process, not a mathematical or design process, so it makes sense to use the term "engineer". However, I wouldn't use the term for all programmers, as not all programming does the full process. In any case, the term "engineer" is very vague and has broadened significantly over time, whereas terms like lawyer and physician have stayed pretty consistent. - [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer
milkthefat 8y ago
The entire reason for this was scummy to begin with. Järlström had presented clear evidence that the system was flawed. The state or county he presented it to used his “public” title(engineer) to try and obscure the wide spread incompetence of the matter while taking nearly a year to resolve the maths in question.
- criddell 8y ago
  You make it sound like a simple ad hominem attack on the guy. Was it?
  - sgc 8y ago
    From what I have read of the case, yes.
ken 8y ago
So you think anyone should be able to call themselves "physicians" or "lawyers" or "police", as those are English words that predate their professional associations?
- gambiting 8y ago
  Sure. I'm just trying to think what would be the negative consequence of someone calling themselves a lawyer or police in a TV interview like here, and I can't think of one, other than the fact that they are making an idiot out of themselves. Like, it shouldn't be illegal.
  - monochromatic 8y ago
    Would it be ok for a non-lawyer to hold himself out as a lawyer and accept money from “clients” who were fooled?
    - Gibbon1 8y ago
      Difference between a lawyer and a realtor is a lawyer has to get a law degree and pass the bar exam and then really doesn't owe anyone shit. Realtor's are a cross between a MLM and a guild.
      - paulie_a 8y ago
        Real estate agents are legally acting as a lawyer in a very specific scope in some states. They are considered to be one, again in a very narrow scope. And no Realtors/real estate agents in no way is anything close to an mlm. They work as an authorized extension of a licenced broker. They work on their behalf with oversight and receive compensation. But that is literally every job.
        stan_rogers 8y ago
        Not lawyer, attorney (someone with the legal right to act on another's behalf in a legally binding manner). Where a lawyer is an attorney-at-law, a real estate agent (whether a "realtor" or not) would be an ad hoc attorney-in-fact.
pnw_hazor 8y ago
Realtor is protected by trademark law.

by c3534l 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

TheSoftwareGuy 8y ago

I don’t think that’s what is happening here. The suit seems to be predicated on him calling himself an engineer

pstrateman 8y ago
Did they invent the word engineer?
greglindahl 8y ago
Where I live, people call themselves engineers all of the time, and it's not considered to imply any particular license or degree or accreditation.
- markdown 8y ago
  > and it's not considered to imply any particular license or degree or accreditation. Which sucks, doesn't it. It's advertising (ie. a lie) that's been repeated so much that it's become accepted. I know many software "engineers". They aren't real engineers, they just didn't like being called software programmers or coders.
  - you_owe_me 8y ago
    The words engineer and engineering connote high intellect, professionalism and most importantly "gravitas". So, it's not a surprise that software developers/coders/programmers (usually a snubbed crowd) love being called engineers.
  - LeifCarrotson 8y ago
    You can be a programmer without being an engineer. But there are thousands of electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, chemical engineers, computer engineers, and others who have degrees that say "engineer" and use engineering practices who are absolutely real engineers, if not Professional Engineers.
  - beatgammit 8y ago
    From the Wikipedia article on Engineer [1]: > Engineers, as practitioners of engineering, are professionals who invent, design, analyze, build, and test machines, systems, structures and materials to fulfill objectives and requirements while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety, and cost This fits a lot of software development (esp. "systems"). The process of developing software is an engineering process, not a mathematical or design process, so it makes sense to use the term "engineer". However, I wouldn't use the term for all programmers, as not all programming does the full process. In any case, the term "engineer" is very vague and has broadened significantly over time, whereas terms like lawyer and physician have stayed pretty consistent. - [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer

milkthefat 8y ago

The entire reason for this was scummy to begin with. Järlström had presented clear evidence that the system was flawed. The state or county he presented it to used his “public” title(engineer) to try and obscure the wide spread incompetence of the matter while taking nearly a year to resolve the maths in question.

criddell 8y ago
You make it sound like a simple ad hominem attack on the guy. Was it?
- sgc 8y ago
  From what I have read of the case, yes.

ken 8y ago

So you think anyone should be able to call themselves "physicians" or "lawyers" or "police", as those are English words that predate their professional associations?

gambiting 8y ago
Sure. I'm just trying to think what would be the negative consequence of someone calling themselves a lawyer or police in a TV interview like here, and I can't think of one, other than the fact that they are making an idiot out of themselves. Like, it shouldn't be illegal.
- monochromatic 8y ago
  Would it be ok for a non-lawyer to hold himself out as a lawyer and accept money from “clients” who were fooled?
  - Gibbon1 8y ago
    Difference between a lawyer and a realtor is a lawyer has to get a law degree and pass the bar exam and then really doesn't owe anyone shit. Realtor's are a cross between a MLM and a guild.
    - paulie_a 8y ago
      Real estate agents are legally acting as a lawyer in a very specific scope in some states. They are considered to be one, again in a very narrow scope. And no Realtors/real estate agents in no way is anything close to an mlm. They work as an authorized extension of a licenced broker. They work on their behalf with oversight and receive compensation. But that is literally every job.
      - stan_rogers 8y ago
        Not lawyer, attorney (someone with the legal right to act on another's behalf in a legally binding manner). Where a lawyer is an attorney-at-law, a real estate agent (whether a "realtor" or not) would be an ad hoc attorney-in-fact.

pnw_hazor 8y ago

Realtor is protected by trademark law.