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Our daily anti-China clickbait! Oh but it looks like US Military was doing this first... "Yet China isn't the first place innovators have sought to build a dev

Our daily anti-China clickbait! Oh but it looks like US Military was doing this first... "Yet China isn't the first place innovators have sought to build a device to resemble a bird: in 2013, the U.S. military acquired more than 30 drones from Florida-based Prioria Robotics, designed to look like birds of prey. "

Para2016 8y ago
I'll take the troll bait. So if the US military does it then it's perfectly fine?
- simplecomplex 8y ago
  No, but the narrative being pushed is that China is creepy and authoritarian for using the same tech and doing the same things everyone else is. Maybe it’s just me, but it seems every day similar articles are hitting HN’s front pages .
  - fromthestart 8y ago
    Is the U.S. military turning this technology against its own citizens.
    - gaius 8y ago
      The US military from what I've seen takes Posse Commitatus fairly seriously.
      - acct1771 8y ago
        Even the Director of the NSA will tell you that!
  - loceng 8y ago
    One significant/important difference between the US and China is you likely won't be able to criticize the program in one country vs. the other.
    - cronix 8y ago
      You can only criticize it, if you're made aware that it's happening. There are cities in the US that have deployed facial recognition technologies without anybody except the mayor (and police) knowing. Not even the city counsel knew. Most of the US was not aware to the extend that they were/are being monitored until Snowden revealed it. > Predictive policing technology has proven highly controversial wherever it is implemented, but in New Orleans, the program escaped public notice, partly because Palantir established it as a philanthropic relationship with the city through Mayor Mitch Landrieu’s signature NOLA For Life program. Thanks to its philanthropic status, as well as New Orleans’ “strong mayor” model of government, the agreement never passed through a public procurement process. https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/27/17054740/palantir-predictive-policing-tool-new-orleans-nopd https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/27/17054740/palantir-predict...
      - unholythree 8y ago
        The local chapter of the ACLU is in an office building across the street from City Hall in New Orleans. I think it's fair to say nothing comperable is the case in any major Chinese city.
  - QuantumGood 8y ago
    > "using the same tech and doing the same things" This post on HN would then be a great place to post links supporting that thesis.
  - porphyrogene 8y ago
    Facial recognition to identify passengers on public transit or anyone caught on a police officer’s body camera is mentioned in the article. Everyone else is not doing that. Everyone else does not have concentration camps and re-education facilities for Muslims and other rural cultures in mainland China. You are delusional to suggest that China is a victim of the free press. It’s the other way around.
    - simplecomplex 8y ago
      UK has been doing the same thing for the last 10 years... https://www.wired.co.uk/article/face-recognition-police-uk-south-wales-met-notting-hill-carnival https://www.wired.co.uk/article/face-recognition-police-uk-s...
      - porphyrogene 8y ago
        Your ability to be blind to a challenge to your convictions is impressive in its own way.
        simplecomplex 8y ago
        What conviction? China is an authoritarian state, I’m not disputing that at all. My only conviction is that these articles are upvoted based on anti-Chinese sentiment, not on any real basis for learning something. Especially considering tech like drones and facial recognition aren’t being used by China any differently than how other countries like US, UK, etc. use them.
        porphyrogene 8y ago
        The US, UK and other countries are using facial recognition to round up and re-educate ethnic groups? You have invented a lie of convenience and sold it to yourself. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/asia/china-uighur-muslim-detention-camp.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/asia/china-uighur-m...
        dang 8y ago
  - thanatropism 8y ago
    There's really two ways that can be read. One is "in China it's a dystopia, watch out and see how it happens because it could happen here". The other is "in China it's a dystopia, not here. Our bird-cameras are blueish-grey, not greyish-blue". The second-order reaction is to watch out for people who exaggerate the small differences.
Wowfunhappy 8y ago
The difference, to me, is that China is doing this to spy on its own, civilian citizens. That doesn't make what the US military does okay, but it does make it a lot better.
- supergirl 8y ago
  the spy on own citizens is just speculation added in by the clickbait journalist because hey it’s china so nobody will dispute they do this for opressing their own citizen
- acct1771 8y ago
  Do you think most branches of the US military aren't involved in domestic spying?
  - bassman9000 8y ago
    The US-China attempt to moral equivalence is getting tiring. Far from perfect, the US still has a vast superior Rule of Law, human/natural rights protection, open internet, and it's not imprisoning a million people in "reeducation camps".
    - intuitionist 8y ago
      No, it's imprisoning two million people in prisons.
      - chrisco255 8y ago
        Yeah for actual crimes not for talking shit about the Communist party or being Muslim or whatever the Chinese government is up to these days. In the U.S. you can talk all the shit you want about Trump, you're not gonna suffer legal consequences for it. Good luck protesting Xi Jinping in Shanghai.
        jammygit 8y ago
pizza 8y ago
The answer is to increase scrutiny against both, not back off.
- izacus 8y ago
  So why are only China news upvoted here?
  - pizza 8y ago
    Well let's look at the past year's top stories with the keyword "surveillance" - it seems that there is far more about corporate surveillance powers and also American/Western surveillance, apart from one popular story about Xinjiang. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=surveillance&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=pastYear&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=surveillance&sort=byPopularity... I will agree, however, if you simply search 'China', the results.. don't look that pretty. I find it hard to tell how much of that is due to current American anti-Chinese sentiment and how much of that is due to accurate reporting. All the more reason for giving greater scrutiny to articles/journos as well as nations. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=china&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=pastYear&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=china&sort=byPopularity&prefix...
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
erokar 8y ago
I see. Information about how a dictatorship suppresses its citizens bothers you.
jammygit 8y ago
Its good for people to get freaked out when foreign governments do sketchy things. I know it seems like everyone is picking on China, but if the world got really freaked out by what was happening there then people might have a better chance of preventing, or undoing, it here. If they accept it, its easier to normalize it at home too. Its way too normalized already. For example, it seems like there has been a lot more news about western surveillance lately now that China is bringing the topic to people's attention. Facebook helped too. Sure, the media is picking on Facebook and China lately, but its bringing some important topics to the public attention as a warning.
jryle70 8y ago
Click-bait? That's from South China Morning Post, a Hong Kong newspaper that still tries to be independent from Beijing. Also, did you know that Chinese in mainland can't access this very article? since SCMP has been blocked in the mainland for several years?

Para2016 8y ago

I'll take the troll bait. So if the US military does it then it's perfectly fine?

simplecomplex 8y ago
No, but the narrative being pushed is that China is creepy and authoritarian for using the same tech and doing the same things everyone else is. Maybe it’s just me, but it seems every day similar articles are hitting HN’s front pages .
- fromthestart 8y ago
  Is the U.S. military turning this technology against its own citizens.
  - gaius 8y ago
    The US military from what I've seen takes Posse Commitatus fairly seriously.
    - acct1771 8y ago
      Even the Director of the NSA will tell you that!
- loceng 8y ago
  One significant/important difference between the US and China is you likely won't be able to criticize the program in one country vs. the other.
  - cronix 8y ago
    You can only criticize it, if you're made aware that it's happening. There are cities in the US that have deployed facial recognition technologies without anybody except the mayor (and police) knowing. Not even the city counsel knew. Most of the US was not aware to the extend that they were/are being monitored until Snowden revealed it. > Predictive policing technology has proven highly controversial wherever it is implemented, but in New Orleans, the program escaped public notice, partly because Palantir established it as a philanthropic relationship with the city through Mayor Mitch Landrieu’s signature NOLA For Life program. Thanks to its philanthropic status, as well as New Orleans’ “strong mayor” model of government, the agreement never passed through a public procurement process. https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/27/17054740/palantir-predictive-policing-tool-new-orleans-nopd https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/27/17054740/palantir-predict...
    - unholythree 8y ago
      The local chapter of the ACLU is in an office building across the street from City Hall in New Orleans. I think it's fair to say nothing comperable is the case in any major Chinese city.
- QuantumGood 8y ago
  > "using the same tech and doing the same things" This post on HN would then be a great place to post links supporting that thesis.
- porphyrogene 8y ago
  Facial recognition to identify passengers on public transit or anyone caught on a police officer’s body camera is mentioned in the article. Everyone else is not doing that. Everyone else does not have concentration camps and re-education facilities for Muslims and other rural cultures in mainland China. You are delusional to suggest that China is a victim of the free press. It’s the other way around.
  - simplecomplex 8y ago
    UK has been doing the same thing for the last 10 years... https://www.wired.co.uk/article/face-recognition-police-uk-south-wales-met-notting-hill-carnival https://www.wired.co.uk/article/face-recognition-police-uk-s...
    - porphyrogene 8y ago
      Your ability to be blind to a challenge to your convictions is impressive in its own way.
      - simplecomplex 8y ago
        What conviction? China is an authoritarian state, I’m not disputing that at all. My only conviction is that these articles are upvoted based on anti-Chinese sentiment, not on any real basis for learning something. Especially considering tech like drones and facial recognition aren’t being used by China any differently than how other countries like US, UK, etc. use them.
        porphyrogene 8y ago
        The US, UK and other countries are using facial recognition to round up and re-educate ethnic groups? You have invented a lie of convenience and sold it to yourself. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/asia/china-uighur-muslim-detention-camp.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/asia/china-uighur-m...
      - dang 8y ago
- thanatropism 8y ago
  There's really two ways that can be read. One is "in China it's a dystopia, watch out and see how it happens because it could happen here". The other is "in China it's a dystopia, not here. Our bird-cameras are blueish-grey, not greyish-blue". The second-order reaction is to watch out for people who exaggerate the small differences.

Wowfunhappy 8y ago

The difference, to me, is that China is doing this to spy on its own, civilian citizens. That doesn't make what the US military does okay, but it does make it a lot better.

supergirl 8y ago
the spy on own citizens is just speculation added in by the clickbait journalist because hey it’s china so nobody will dispute they do this for opressing their own citizen
acct1771 8y ago
Do you think most branches of the US military aren't involved in domestic spying?
- bassman9000 8y ago
  The US-China attempt to moral equivalence is getting tiring. Far from perfect, the US still has a vast superior Rule of Law, human/natural rights protection, open internet, and it's not imprisoning a million people in "reeducation camps".
  - intuitionist 8y ago
    No, it's imprisoning two million people in prisons.
    - chrisco255 8y ago
      Yeah for actual crimes not for talking shit about the Communist party or being Muslim or whatever the Chinese government is up to these days. In the U.S. you can talk all the shit you want about Trump, you're not gonna suffer legal consequences for it. Good luck protesting Xi Jinping in Shanghai.
      - jammygit 8y ago

pizza 8y ago

The answer is to increase scrutiny against both, not back off.

izacus 8y ago
So why are only China news upvoted here?
- pizza 8y ago
  Well let's look at the past year's top stories with the keyword "surveillance" - it seems that there is far more about corporate surveillance powers and also American/Western surveillance, apart from one popular story about Xinjiang. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=surveillance&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=pastYear&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=surveillance&sort=byPopularity... I will agree, however, if you simply search 'China', the results.. don't look that pretty. I find it hard to tell how much of that is due to current American anti-Chinese sentiment and how much of that is due to accurate reporting. All the more reason for giving greater scrutiny to articles/journos as well as nations. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=china&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=pastYear&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=china&sort=byPopularity&prefix...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

erokar 8y ago

I see. Information about how a dictatorship suppresses its citizens bothers you.

jammygit 8y ago

Its good for people to get freaked out when foreign governments do sketchy things. I know it seems like everyone is picking on China, but if the world got really freaked out by what was happening there then people might have a better chance of preventing, or undoing, it here. If they accept it, its easier to normalize it at home too. Its way too normalized already. For example, it seems like there has been a lot more news about western surveillance lately now that China is bringing the topic to people's attention. Facebook helped too. Sure, the media is picking on Facebook and China lately, but its bringing some important topics to the public attention as a warning.

jryle70 8y ago

Click-bait? That's from South China Morning Post, a Hong Kong newspaper that still tries to be independent from Beijing. Also, did you know that Chinese in mainland can't access this very article? since SCMP has been blocked in the mainland for several years?