5 ms·

"What extra credit can she do to make this an A?" "She can't, because that's the grade she earned in the time alloted. The moving finger, having writ, has move

"What extra credit can she do to make this an A?" "She can't, because that's the grade she earned in the time alloted. The moving finger, having writ, has moved on. "However, I'm confident that, with Janie's capabilities, a little more effort from her and help from you, she can easily demonstrate a higher level of mastery and the consequent benefits from longer-term retention. "Princeton will NOT be a picnic, and developing excellent habits at this time will pay back many-fold. This A- is a vote of confidence that there is room and talent for improvement."

fjsolwmv 8y ago
Time alloted? Why does earning calculus have a 4 month expiration date? Why are we blaming the victims for the oppressive irrational grading system?
paulcole 8y ago
It doesn’t stop at high school. No rich parent is paying $50k a year so their kid can get a C.
- thatfrenchguy 8y ago
  Where do you think those Ivy League educated can’t-do-anything people you interview everyday come from ?
- Aeolun 8y ago
  50k for the opportunity to score an A. Not for the guarantee. That would make the A utterly valueless.
  - paulcole 8y ago
    An honors degree from Harvard (or another Ivy) is still rare (with respect to the general public) and has value even if everyone who graduates gets one.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - Aeolun 8y ago
      Of course it’s still rare. There’s only one Harvard, and only so many students they accept. But if everyone graduates and gets a honors degree, the only thing that degree means is that you were able to get in (either through skill or money). I’m sure it still has value. But it places all the value at the entrance and selection process instead of the teaching.
      - therealdrag0 8y ago
        Pretty much. Some argue a lot of higher-education is merely signaling. So you can't say it's worthless, only that the value is different than is publicly discussed/assumed. This is an interesting interview about it: http://www.econtalk.org/bryan-caplan-on-the-case-against-education/ http://www.econtalk.org/bryan-caplan-on-the-case-against-edu...
      - paulcole 8y ago
        90% of Harvard students graduate with honors. https://www.quora.com/Is-Harvard-the-only-university-where-90-graduate-with-honors-cum-laude-or-better https://www.quora.com/Is-Harvard-the-only-university-where-9...
twtw 8y ago
Nice try. I've seen how this goes over with those types. The parents escalate to the adminstrators, who either involve the student counsellors or talk to the teacher directly. One of these two tell the teacher how they need to better support the student because they need a "little extra help" or can't handle the stress required to turn in homework assignments. I wish this stuff worked, but these parents typically don't want an answer that requires their student to work harder (or differently). They want the curriculum, assignments, or grading scheme to change until their child gets an A - and they don't care about mastery.
- yason 8y ago
  Pushing responsibility upward and allowing escalation should end at some point. The administrators should just repeat what the teachers said, and tell the parents that the only way to get better scores is to invite the child work harder for the next test. It's really that simple. Now, if even the administrators can't do that then someone in the city government, state government or federal government should be able to draw the fundamental line whether the purpose of schools is to give students A's or grade them based on their actual knowledge and make the student responsible for his/her own grades.
  - dagw 8y ago
    The administration has nothing to win and a lot to lose by standing their ground. 'Fixing' the grade costs them nothing and makes a very annoying problem go away. This is one of the big advantages of national standardised testing. There is literally nothing the school can do to alter the grade.
pfortuny 8y ago
The only reasonable reply is “that would be unfair to the rest of the class”. Because it is true and the only reason. And stop at that. Otherwise you start on a losing discussion.
watwut 8y ago
Except that many teachers easily give occasion for extra credit, extra time, etc both in elementary or in collage. So all in all, students who ask for that end up with better grades and better chances where grades matter.
learnstats2 8y ago
These responses will get major push-back. By indicating a personal and subjective intent to be ungenerous, parents will feel (perhaps rightly) that they want to take this further. Edited to add, my approach would be more like: "I have graded 8bitsrule as generously as I could under the circumstances, and the grade is final. 8bitsrule will need to show a better understanding of communicating diplomatically in order to succeed in next semester's courses. 8bitsrule could try the following specific tasks over the break:"

fjsolwmv 8y ago

Time alloted? Why does earning calculus have a 4 month expiration date? Why are we blaming the victims for the oppressive irrational grading system?

paulcole 8y ago

It doesn’t stop at high school. No rich parent is paying $50k a year so their kid can get a C.

thatfrenchguy 8y ago
Where do you think those Ivy League educated can’t-do-anything people you interview everyday come from ?
Aeolun 8y ago
50k for the opportunity to score an A. Not for the guarantee. That would make the A utterly valueless.
- paulcole 8y ago
  An honors degree from Harvard (or another Ivy) is still rare (with respect to the general public) and has value even if everyone who graduates gets one.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - Aeolun 8y ago
    Of course it’s still rare. There’s only one Harvard, and only so many students they accept. But if everyone graduates and gets a honors degree, the only thing that degree means is that you were able to get in (either through skill or money). I’m sure it still has value. But it places all the value at the entrance and selection process instead of the teaching.
    - therealdrag0 8y ago
      Pretty much. Some argue a lot of higher-education is merely signaling. So you can't say it's worthless, only that the value is different than is publicly discussed/assumed. This is an interesting interview about it: http://www.econtalk.org/bryan-caplan-on-the-case-against-education/ http://www.econtalk.org/bryan-caplan-on-the-case-against-edu...
    - paulcole 8y ago
      90% of Harvard students graduate with honors. https://www.quora.com/Is-Harvard-the-only-university-where-90-graduate-with-honors-cum-laude-or-better https://www.quora.com/Is-Harvard-the-only-university-where-9...

twtw 8y ago

Nice try. I've seen how this goes over with those types. The parents escalate to the adminstrators, who either involve the student counsellors or talk to the teacher directly. One of these two tell the teacher how they need to better support the student because they need a "little extra help" or can't handle the stress required to turn in homework assignments. I wish this stuff worked, but these parents typically don't want an answer that requires their student to work harder (or differently). They want the curriculum, assignments, or grading scheme to change until their child gets an A - and they don't care about mastery.

yason 8y ago
Pushing responsibility upward and allowing escalation should end at some point. The administrators should just repeat what the teachers said, and tell the parents that the only way to get better scores is to invite the child work harder for the next test. It's really that simple. Now, if even the administrators can't do that then someone in the city government, state government or federal government should be able to draw the fundamental line whether the purpose of schools is to give students A's or grade them based on their actual knowledge and make the student responsible for his/her own grades.
- dagw 8y ago
  The administration has nothing to win and a lot to lose by standing their ground. 'Fixing' the grade costs them nothing and makes a very annoying problem go away. This is one of the big advantages of national standardised testing. There is literally nothing the school can do to alter the grade.

pfortuny 8y ago

The only reasonable reply is “that would be unfair to the rest of the class”. Because it is true and the only reason. And stop at that. Otherwise you start on a losing discussion.

watwut 8y ago

Except that many teachers easily give occasion for extra credit, extra time, etc both in elementary or in collage. So all in all, students who ask for that end up with better grades and better chances where grades matter.

learnstats2 8y ago

These responses will get major push-back. By indicating a personal and subjective intent to be ungenerous, parents will feel (perhaps rightly) that they want to take this further. Edited to add, my approach would be more like: "I have graded 8bitsrule as generously as I could under the circumstances, and the grade is final. 8bitsrule will need to show a better understanding of communicating diplomatically in order to succeed in next semester's courses. 8bitsrule could try the following specific tasks over the break:"