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I agree. Your position is reasonable and cautiously stated. Unfortunately the crypto hate here on HN is real and pretty disappointing really. Crypto Currencies

I agree. Your position is reasonable and cautiously stated. Unfortunately the crypto hate here on HN is real and pretty disappointing really. Crypto Currencies are an emerging technology that have value far beyond currencies. IPFS for example, d.tube etc.

api 8y ago
The crypto hate comes from a combination of fatigue and a reaction to the incredible number of total scams in the crypto ecosystem.
- smokeyj 8y ago
  Even in purely technical discussions people providing information get downvoted. HN is a crypto “safe space”. Just don’t talk about it here.
- wpietri 8y ago
  Exactly I would have absolutely no problem with them if these things were obscure little open source projects like most tech experiments are. When I first read the Bitcoin paper I was skeptical but interested to see where they'd take it. My problem is that these projects are simultaneously treated as humble little experiments and the perfect future of the global financial system, deserving of hundreds of millions of dollars of investment and endless public attention. If they would pick one or the other, I'd be fine with it. But I've dealt with years of a radical, quasi-mystical pro-crypto contingent who believe they deserve all of the upside with none of the accountability. I am 100% over it. In short, the crypto hate is a reaction to the crypto hype. I have very little sympathy for people who profited from the hype, delivered approximately nothing of use to the rest of the world, and now have a sad that there are consequences.
  - jnbiche 8y ago
    > In short, the crypto hate is a reaction to the crypto hype. Actually, as someone who was very interested in Bitcoin in the early days of 2011-2012, I disagree. If anything, the hate on HN was even greater back then, way before Bitcoin became hyped. So many people were convinced it was a pyramid scheme. It was clear to anyone familiar with the Bitcoin community back then that there were a lot of highly technical, talented people, and very few scammers. But most of HN reflexively despised Bitcoin. In fact, Bitcoin on HN is actually a lot less hated now, which tells me it has little to do with the hype, and that something else was going on. Bear in mind that I disassociated myself from Bitcoin once the scammers, con-men, and get-rich-quick types infiltrated the community around 2013 and 2014. But even back in 2011, there was a very high number of HNers who seemed personally affronted by the very idea that money was a social agreement. They seemed to believe that money was some kind of official, government activity, end of story. And that anyone who believed otherwise was an evil heretic, to be ridiculed. > I have very little sympathy for people who profited from the hype, delivered approximately nothing of use to the rest of the world, and now have a sad that there are consequences. This I agree with 100%.
    - wpietri 8y ago
      We may be talking about different hate. I think gnarbarian is talking about their current experience, and I'm certainly talking about my current feelings. That said, the 2011-12 critique that Bitcoin was a pyramid scheme turned out to be approximately correct. Much like Herbalife, the actual product was never good for much, and its actual utility was basically irrelevant to its rise. And as with many pyramid schemes, a collapse came when the supply of new entrants became insufficient. There are differences, of course. Pyramid schemes have a central authority, while Bitcoin doesn't. I definitely agree that this is a perennial HN problem, though: "And that anyone who believed otherwise was an evil heretic, to be ridiculed." The field necessarily attracts idealists; so much of making software is continuing to insist on an idea until the computer eventually agrees. But it's regrettably easy to go overboard.
    - shrimpx 8y ago
      > But even back in 2011, there was a very high number of HNers who seemed personally affronted by the very idea that money was a social agreement. They seemed to believe that money was some kind of official, government activity, end of story. And that anyone who believed otherwise was an evil heretic, to be ridiculed. This x10. If I were to anthropomorphise HN it would be a middle aged white collar worker, pretty smart, making fairly keen observations about the evolution of a company's product and social structure, but in the dark about executive-level play. Financially conservative, thinks of money as a necessary evil. Stashes money in the bank and is highly suspicious of financial risk. To this character Bitcoin is a threat because it mixes that which they care strongly about (open source, distributed systems, impact) with that which they've largely ignored and of which they are suspicious (money). Edit: grammar.
      - plywoodtrees 8y ago
        I smiled at your characterization. Although, more realistically, our archetype has done modestly well by working for the man, and has 100k-low millions in index funds and company stock, and some comfort with +/- 30% swings y/y. But let's also remember, that middle-aged character has seen the hype cycles many times before in previous decades, and recognizes the scam. The sky-high and unstable valuations, the co-dependent press coverage, the hand-waving distraction from the absence of realistic uses, the flurry of me-too startups, the enthusiasm of lay investors. Hype usually indicates pure bullshit, but sometimes something useful emerges out of it. Most often the original projects are decimated.
empath75 8y ago
This kind of comment sounds more and more like ‘the year of Linux on the desktop’ as time goes by.

api 8y ago

The crypto hate comes from a combination of fatigue and a reaction to the incredible number of total scams in the crypto ecosystem.

smokeyj 8y ago
Even in purely technical discussions people providing information get downvoted. HN is a crypto “safe space”. Just don’t talk about it here.
wpietri 8y ago
Exactly I would have absolutely no problem with them if these things were obscure little open source projects like most tech experiments are. When I first read the Bitcoin paper I was skeptical but interested to see where they'd take it. My problem is that these projects are simultaneously treated as humble little experiments and the perfect future of the global financial system, deserving of hundreds of millions of dollars of investment and endless public attention. If they would pick one or the other, I'd be fine with it. But I've dealt with years of a radical, quasi-mystical pro-crypto contingent who believe they deserve all of the upside with none of the accountability. I am 100% over it. In short, the crypto hate is a reaction to the crypto hype. I have very little sympathy for people who profited from the hype, delivered approximately nothing of use to the rest of the world, and now have a sad that there are consequences.
- jnbiche 8y ago
  > In short, the crypto hate is a reaction to the crypto hype. Actually, as someone who was very interested in Bitcoin in the early days of 2011-2012, I disagree. If anything, the hate on HN was even greater back then, way before Bitcoin became hyped. So many people were convinced it was a pyramid scheme. It was clear to anyone familiar with the Bitcoin community back then that there were a lot of highly technical, talented people, and very few scammers. But most of HN reflexively despised Bitcoin. In fact, Bitcoin on HN is actually a lot less hated now, which tells me it has little to do with the hype, and that something else was going on. Bear in mind that I disassociated myself from Bitcoin once the scammers, con-men, and get-rich-quick types infiltrated the community around 2013 and 2014. But even back in 2011, there was a very high number of HNers who seemed personally affronted by the very idea that money was a social agreement. They seemed to believe that money was some kind of official, government activity, end of story. And that anyone who believed otherwise was an evil heretic, to be ridiculed. > I have very little sympathy for people who profited from the hype, delivered approximately nothing of use to the rest of the world, and now have a sad that there are consequences. This I agree with 100%.
  - wpietri 8y ago
    We may be talking about different hate. I think gnarbarian is talking about their current experience, and I'm certainly talking about my current feelings. That said, the 2011-12 critique that Bitcoin was a pyramid scheme turned out to be approximately correct. Much like Herbalife, the actual product was never good for much, and its actual utility was basically irrelevant to its rise. And as with many pyramid schemes, a collapse came when the supply of new entrants became insufficient. There are differences, of course. Pyramid schemes have a central authority, while Bitcoin doesn't. I definitely agree that this is a perennial HN problem, though: "And that anyone who believed otherwise was an evil heretic, to be ridiculed." The field necessarily attracts idealists; so much of making software is continuing to insist on an idea until the computer eventually agrees. But it's regrettably easy to go overboard.
  - shrimpx 8y ago
    > But even back in 2011, there was a very high number of HNers who seemed personally affronted by the very idea that money was a social agreement. They seemed to believe that money was some kind of official, government activity, end of story. And that anyone who believed otherwise was an evil heretic, to be ridiculed. This x10. If I were to anthropomorphise HN it would be a middle aged white collar worker, pretty smart, making fairly keen observations about the evolution of a company's product and social structure, but in the dark about executive-level play. Financially conservative, thinks of money as a necessary evil. Stashes money in the bank and is highly suspicious of financial risk. To this character Bitcoin is a threat because it mixes that which they care strongly about (open source, distributed systems, impact) with that which they've largely ignored and of which they are suspicious (money). Edit: grammar.
    - plywoodtrees 8y ago
      I smiled at your characterization. Although, more realistically, our archetype has done modestly well by working for the man, and has 100k-low millions in index funds and company stock, and some comfort with +/- 30% swings y/y. But let's also remember, that middle-aged character has seen the hype cycles many times before in previous decades, and recognizes the scam. The sky-high and unstable valuations, the co-dependent press coverage, the hand-waving distraction from the absence of realistic uses, the flurry of me-too startups, the enthusiasm of lay investors. Hype usually indicates pure bullshit, but sometimes something useful emerges out of it. Most often the original projects are decimated.

empath75 8y ago

This kind of comment sounds more and more like ‘the year of Linux on the desktop’ as time goes by.