3 ms·

> Your dismissive attitude towards this is antithetical to the design of user friendly software And your dismissive attitude of the project's own design goals

> Your dismissive attitude towards this is antithetical to the design of user friendly software And your dismissive attitude of the project's own design goals is antithetical to the notion that not everybody has the same priorities as you, nor do they think your personal ideas equate to "the design of user friendly software". The principle of "no surprises" is probably the greatest aspect of "user friendly software" when it comes to power tools such as shells, scripting languages, programming languages, etc. and that seems to be what GP is stating as preferable to edge-case scenario surprises. You may disagree all you like with that as a priority, but please don't go to the extreme of stating that someone is being dismissive simply because they don't hold your idea up on a golden plinth above their own.

darkpuma 8y ago
>The principle of "no surprises" Is violated by this: > mpv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBoF1e5YDdQ fish: No matches for wildcard 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBoF1e5YDdQ'. See `help expand`. mpv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBoF1e5YDdQ ^ Particularly for software that sells itself as user friendly. The carrot doesn't even point at the wildcard! I am very far from the first person to raise this issue with the fish devs, you can find numerous people bringing this up going years back. I'm generally pretty cognizant of when I have unusual requests or opinions about how software should work, and this is not one of those times.
- ridiculous_fish 8y ago
  Your proposed remedy is for the shell to insert something different than what the user inputs. That is much more surprising. No program works that way.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    No program other than a shell requires that a URL copied out of your browser's address bar be escaped. Users may not be accustomed to a program escaping or quoting text they paste, but they're also definitely not accustomed to escaping or quoting strings manually.
    - michaelmrose 8y ago
      How do you propose that people use a shell without learning about escaping. How many people actually using fish are liable to be confused. Its a strange world you seem to be describing where people simultaneously prefer to use mpv in the terminal instead of clicking on a link but can't figure out how to quote the url. You can actually set it up for example in Firefox so you can open a link in mpv instead and skip a step. You could trivially make a quoted paste function and bind it in fish. This fixes the problem for you it would seem.
- shhsshs 8y ago
  That is not surprising in any way. It is very clear and defined that a question mark is a wildcard, and will be expanded. If you want a literal string, define it as such with a single quote.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    >"It is very clear and defined that a question mark is a wildcard" To experienced command line jockeys like you or I, sure. To the inexperienced user, knowledge of the ? wildcard is far from given. ? is esoteric enough that fish has apparently decided to deprecate it completely. fish's error message does not indicated that the wildcard in question was ?, nor does it point to wildcard, it only points to the token that contained the wildcard with no indication of which character it was. That's not the user friendly experience fish advertises.
- michaelmrose 8y ago
  ? Soon won't be a special character most urls don't include [] () >|$ seems like the majority of urls will actually work without escaping.

darkpuma 8y ago

>The principle of "no surprises" Is violated by this: > mpv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBoF1e5YDdQ fish: No matches for wildcard 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBoF1e5YDdQ'. See `help expand`. mpv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBoF1e5YDdQ ^ Particularly for software that sells itself as user friendly. The carrot doesn't even point at the wildcard! I am very far from the first person to raise this issue with the fish devs, you can find numerous people bringing this up going years back. I'm generally pretty cognizant of when I have unusual requests or opinions about how software should work, and this is not one of those times.

ridiculous_fish 8y ago
Your proposed remedy is for the shell to insert something different than what the user inputs. That is much more surprising. No program works that way.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  No program other than a shell requires that a URL copied out of your browser's address bar be escaped. Users may not be accustomed to a program escaping or quoting text they paste, but they're also definitely not accustomed to escaping or quoting strings manually.
  - michaelmrose 8y ago
    How do you propose that people use a shell without learning about escaping. How many people actually using fish are liable to be confused. Its a strange world you seem to be describing where people simultaneously prefer to use mpv in the terminal instead of clicking on a link but can't figure out how to quote the url. You can actually set it up for example in Firefox so you can open a link in mpv instead and skip a step. You could trivially make a quoted paste function and bind it in fish. This fixes the problem for you it would seem.
shhsshs 8y ago
That is not surprising in any way. It is very clear and defined that a question mark is a wildcard, and will be expanded. If you want a literal string, define it as such with a single quote.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  >"It is very clear and defined that a question mark is a wildcard" To experienced command line jockeys like you or I, sure. To the inexperienced user, knowledge of the ? wildcard is far from given. ? is esoteric enough that fish has apparently decided to deprecate it completely. fish's error message does not indicated that the wildcard in question was ?, nor does it point to wildcard, it only points to the token that contained the wildcard with no indication of which character it was. That's not the user friendly experience fish advertises.
michaelmrose 8y ago
? Soon won't be a special character most urls don't include [] () >|$ seems like the majority of urls will actually work without escaping.