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What We Learned from a Year of Americans ‘Risking It’ Without Insurance
- rememberbitcoin 8y agoI've been "risking it" since my last job in 2009. I've had remarkably good health so it hasn't been much of an issue. Even when I had great insurance and used it with all the correct providers and plans and centers there was still always some issue that would lead to insane bills for every minor visit. I've known two separate people who had good health insurance and skilled well paying jobs and they still got completely wiped out by medical bills and eventually decided to eliminate the six figures of debt by sticking a 12 gauge barrel in their mouth. It's not really "insurance" if you're getting screwed with massive bills anyway. Call it something else, whatever label you choose the system seems to have stopped working.
- berbec 8y agoNo insurance from my job since I'm freelance. It's $900/month for me and my wife.
- jrowley 8y agoMay I ask what your rough annual income is? Are you satisfied with your coverage?
- berbec 8y ago55k/year. The coverage is garbage. The phrase "50% covered after coinsurance" pops up everywhere. Only 3 primary care visits per year. Dental that only covers 50% of anything beyond a checkup.
- whatinsurance 8y agoI am in the same boat. Me and my wife had Kaiser Bronze for 750 a month. Recently my wife had to go to emergency and we were billed 6000ish because emergency room services are not 100 percent covered. It would have been more but our out of pocket Max was reached. This is northern Cal. When we were in the ER I was too panicked to ask any questions regarding pricing for any recommended tests or if it was necessary. Later when we were billed I asked them to send an itemized bill. There was not much I could understand from the bill. We ended up setting up a monthly plan to pay the hospital bill.
- berbec 8y agoI couldn't keep up with the payments in 2018. I lost my coverage in August and got lucky. I cant afford to go to the dentist even when I still had my insurance. I have a broken tooth, a cracked crown and probably 3 cavities.
- maigret 8y agoWow. In Germany you’d be paying 15% of your income for health insurance, and no more than 800$ per person if you make more than 5k a month (around that)
- berbec 8y agoPretty much every country that isn't America has more sane health care.
- ravenstine 8y agoThis might be a bit of a tangent, but I'll throw in my perspective as one of those who has been "risking it" for the last 4 months or so. (I won't go into why I'm risking it unless asked) I think it's difficult for a lot of people to justify paying a lot for things that don't provide much of a tangible/measurable benefit. Ideally, insurance would cover a person if something catastrophic happens, but otherwise it's difficult for the human mind to believe it's not essentially setting money on fire when they pay for things that don't have an immediate return. This is probably true now more than ever given our culture of immediate gratification. Someone might feel better about paying for insurance(aka health care) if they believed they were actually being taken care of today by the dollars being spent today. What I mean is that I know of almost nobody who has anything good to say about any aspect of the health care system; everyone seems to have to shop through several doctors to find one who knows what they're talking about, after having spent maybe 5 minutes with doctors a-piece before being sent home with a prescription for what the doctor concludes to be a textbook diagnosis. Many people complain that doctors don't listen to them, and I can attest to this myself having had doctors completely ignore my evidence that I have a specific genetic condition that can be traced to my grandfather who has the identical symptoms(as one example). A friend of mine with a chronic pain issue(I'm talking severe) regularly has to deal with doctors and healthcare staff not doing their jobs whether it's not refilling prescriptions when they said they would, not returning phone calls, failing to communicate with pharmaceutical firms, telephone ping pong caused by nobody knowing who has the authority to do what, nobody can tell you what the price for a treatment will be, etc. It's often chaos. And we're supposed to pay thousands a year for that shit? People need to have faith in what they're putting their money towards. If someone doesn't have faith that the health care system actually cares for them, they're more likely to not pay for it out of spite and take the risk when they have to. Those with a lot of money and well established careers might have the time and resources to navigate the bullshit, but many people don't.
- heydonovan 8y agoI know this has to do with health insurance, but I feel the same with auto insurance as well. It still feels like burning money. For example, I've been paying about $120/month for car insurance since I was 18, give or take. Never been in an accident. That's about $14k I've given to an insurance company for literally doing nothing.
- maxxxxx 8y agoI think more and more that the Medicare For All movement makes sense. If people want more, then they can buy additional insurance, but otherwise the basics are covered. I can also deal with long waits for elective treatment as long as I know that an accident or serious illness won't bankrupt me.
- SolaceQuantum 8y agoI've tried to understand the circumstances preventing socialized medicine in america. I understand there are arguments against socialized medicine, but they make no sense to me on their face (eg. the idea that long wait times would occur, when wait times for USA and wait times for other first world countries with socialized medicine isn't very differe. The idea that socialized medicine would cause less medicine research and advancements, when increasingly medicine advancements are coming from countries with socialized medicine- the US seems to be falling behind in this respect.) Could someone explain to me this phenomenon? I struggle because I do not want to believe the easy, dehumanizing position that 'the people who do not believe what I believe are just too stupid to know I am right'.
- will4274 8y agoOur government is busted. In many cases, it fails to function at all. Thousands of regulations, which are effectively laws, switch back and forth every time the president changes. Both parties blame the other and some independents blame both parties. We have become, as a society, incapable of forming and abiding to compromises. Our healthcare is a shit show, but it's not nearly as much of a shit show as our government, so we're scared of putting one in charge of the other.
- maxxxxx 8y agoMedicare works pretty well. Just expand it.
- mokus 8y agoIn the formula “just do X”, the problem isn’t so much the “X”, it’s the “do”, for the reasons outlined by the GP comment. In this particular case, the notion that Medicare works at all (let alone well) is a point that about half the country will not concede because it’s one of many a shibboleth that keeps the “sides” at each other’s throats.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
- gammateam 8y agoI need to get out of here.
- devereaux 8y agoI have the best insurance money can buy: a plane ticket to %anycountry (business class if needed) Cost of emergency endoscopic shoulder surgery in a private for-profit hospital in France, when totally uninsured, and paying by credit card: 1900 Eur - including anesthesiologist fee, surgeon fee, facility fee, radiology, drugs, private room etc. So around $2200 total, done the same day, after being arranged by phone. It was in France just because I couldn't do that in Thailand (great hospitals and food, like France, but also great beaches during recovery) Add plane ticket + out of pocket costs, divide by 12: about $200/month, 0 deductible - and $0 for the years I don't need anything. Alternative options for the risk averse: purchase local insurance in %anycountry, all inclusive. Cost of health insurance in Europe for non residents: around $70 per month. Just pay, and get treated in that country if you need it. Of course, you still need the plane ticket to fly there. Still getting treated abroad is way way way cheaper than the alternatives. Am I risking it? No. I'm making an educated decision.
- TheLuddite 8y agoThat's a good idea, but what if you cannot travel because of your health?
- devereaux 8y agoNot travelling because of some pain? Painkillers + business class. Not travelling because I'm unconscious or in a critical condition? Foreign insurance + air repatriation. Some countries do sell that, even to non residents. Just get world coverage - it's a bit more than $70, but if something bad happen, you get med evac'ed to that country and treated there. I'm exploring that option as I discover the wonder of medical tourism.
- TheLuddite 8y agoThanks, that's really surprising...not the stiff upper lip...but the repatriation. I thought it's only for people with residence + VIP client in a bank or something.
- NicoJuicy 8y agoWow, being used to Belgian healthcare... This article really makes America look primitive. We pay a lot of taxes, but at least I don't have to worry about money, if i would get severely sick. Eg. - A checkup at the doctor ( blood) costs 2€, results within 24 hours. - Additional costs are required upfront by law. If I'm not mistaken, you can't even get an estimate on the US.
- yodsanklai 8y agoMy European point of view is that on many social issues America is primitive, not only healthcare. I didn't realize it before I lived there. Although some people would argue that it's a feature and not a bug, in the sense that Americans pay lower taxes and are free not to spend on healthcare if they don't want too.
- josho 8y ago> free not to spend on healthcare if they don't want too At an individual level that is correct. But at the macro level it is wrong because when a person gets sick those costs are realized in the economy (eg. instead of cheap preventive care up front avoidance of early treatment means some percent will end up in much more expensive ER services that will cost more than if all those individuals saw a family physician).
- devereaux 8y agoWhat's the cost of a checkup at the doctor for a foreign tourist? (who I assume will get results also within 24h, and be informed about upfront costs if it's the law) What's the medican income in Belgium? In the US? I just don't understand how people in HN of all place complain about the costs of healthcare. I believe America has a better system, especially if you are in the hacker mindset (and with IT salaries!). Just fly to wherever, and get treated for a great price and quality. And that's not specific to the US. I've heard Eastern Europe provides great dentistry services and that even Western Europeans fly there to get treated. Medecine is a business just like any other. If your local shop tries to screw you, take your business elsewhere
- devilkin 8y agoI find this so strange and confusing. A healthy society is a productive society that pays taxes. I'm also from Belgium, and this feels so retarded. And what's even stranger is that some people in America even support this system. Wtf?
- danmaz74 8y ago"Keith and Diana Buchanan of North Carolina gave up their expensive health insurance this year, and bought a Bowflex exercise machine. Keith said he got into the best shape of his life: “A lot of it is a result of knowing that we’re going to have to take care of our own health a little better,” he said." Unfortunately, being in shape doesn't prevent so many health conditions.
- CptFribble 8y agoThe problem I see is that even if ACA was "working as intended," it would still be an incomplete solution. We buy off our state marketplace, but can only afford bronze tier plans with the subsidy. All plans are the same at low tiers, and all make you pay the deductible before the insurance company pays a dime (not counting "negotiated discounts," which are completely invisible until after the bill is generated) That means we're not really signing up to be able to go the doctor, but to not go bankrupt in case of major illness. We buy insurance only to cap our risk at the annual out-of-pocket max. That we get a "free" physical is just a consolation prize. I think a lot of people don't see it that way. As others said, most people see it as money wasted if they don't get sick. And that's a problem. I don't blame the ACA for our issues in the USA, I blame everyone in the government who worked tirelessly to ensure insurance companies can continue to tax our doctor visits for shareholder returns. We need Medicare For All. No one should have to skip going to the doctor because the insurance requires $6k-$8k of blood money before they start performing their function and paying for healthcare, or even let us pay "just" a co-pay.
- tboyd47 8y agoA health insurance startup with a medical tourism option to Cuba, Canada, or India would be a promising venture, for sure.
- stevespang 8y agoIf I have to endure another moment of these borderline abusive, "nasty voice", over estrogenic commentators on Bloomberg . . . somebody please point me to an app that shuts down these auto play videos