6 ms·

> I mean, for God's sake, it seems reasonable to suspect that our President could actually be a Russian intelligence asset I don't think so. That is propaganda

by atmosx 8y ago

> I mean, for God's sake, it seems reasonable to suspect that our President could actually be a Russian intelligence asset I don't think so. That is propaganda from the other party. Strongest I've seen in years, honestly.

dhimes 8y ago
I agree. I mean, in some vague sense he's an asset because he's been useful- and I imagine that happens from time to time to people with power when the other side has a strategy or a goal you haven't caught on to yet, but I don't think he's aware of it.
mr_overalls 8y ago
He has repeatedly sabotaged our relationship with traditional democratically-governed allies (i.e. NATO) - and avoided criticizing Russia to an extent that is simply bizarre. For example, despite the repeated statements by American intelligence agencies that Russian interfered in the 2016 election, Trump said in Helsinki that he believed Putin's denials over his own intelligence apparatus. This is just incomprehensible behavior by a President. https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-putin-press-conference-election-meddling-2018-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-putin-press-conference...
- vxNsr 8y ago
  > He has repeatedly sabotaged our relationship with traditional democratically-governed allies - and avoided criticizing Russia The same could be said for his predecessor. See Israel, Japan, hot mic with Medvedev. I think we see what we want to see and forgive "our guy" because we believe his intentions.
  - mr_overalls 8y ago
    Can you provide specifics on Obama's actions re: Israel and Japan that you find objectionable?
    - vxNsr 8y ago
      Here's one article that explains the final "f u" obama gave to israel: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/world/middleeast/israel-benjamin-netanyahu-barack-obama.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/world/middleeast/israel-b... The constant calls for restraint on Israel's part as Israeli children as young as 6 months were being stabbed to death in their beds by "freedom fighters" lauded by PLO and PA media also comes to mind. The blind eye towards how PLO officials spoke to their own people (bloodthirsty talk of killing all the jews) vs what they said in English (calls for peace if only Israel was willing to compromise). But just googling "Obama and Israel" will give you tons more. Obama's weak stance on NK and china at the expense of Japanese security was seen as failing an ally. I'm wondering if you could provide concrete examples of Trump sabotage. I'm curious mostly because I'm guessing we're gonna see it very differently.
      - justin66 8y ago
        Just so nobody else wastes their time I thought I should point out that that NY Times link doesn't support any of the crazy stuff you're saying.
        vxNsr 8y ago
        Just so we're clear, the NYT article is only about Obama choosing not to veto a resolution condemning Israel. Not sure what I said that was crazy?
        vxNsr 8y ago
        here you go: https://www.haaretz.com/1.5177456 https://www.haaretz.com/1.5177456 https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4041106,00.html https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4041106,00.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/palestinians-celebrate-and-then-reluctantly-denounce-itamar-murders/2011/03/04/ABNZlOV_blog.html?utm_term=.e57bedac3845 https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/palesti...
      - mr_overalls 8y ago
        For starters, Trump doesn't seem to even comprehend the mutual defense pact that is the foundation of NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-nato-self-defense-montenegro.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-nato-s... Apart from that, he was generally a source of chaos at the 2018 NATO summit, 1) demanding that NATO allies increase per-GDP spending ahead of schedule or the US would "go it alone" (and hijacking a meeting already in progress to make these demands), 2) accusing Germany of being "totally controlled" by Russia, 3) and giving a parallel-reality final press conference touting that NATO partners had agreed to significant increases in spending (which said partners denied). https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/12/how-trumps-nato-summit-meltdown-unfolded https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/12/how-trumps-n...
buttcoinslol 8y ago
A useful idiot is still an asset, perhaps not knowingly.

by atmosx 8y ago

dhimes 8y ago

I agree. I mean, in some vague sense he's an asset because he's been useful- and I imagine that happens from time to time to people with power when the other side has a strategy or a goal you haven't caught on to yet, but I don't think he's aware of it.

mr_overalls 8y ago

He has repeatedly sabotaged our relationship with traditional democratically-governed allies (i.e. NATO) - and avoided criticizing Russia to an extent that is simply bizarre. For example, despite the repeated statements by American intelligence agencies that Russian interfered in the 2016 election, Trump said in Helsinki that he believed Putin's denials over his own intelligence apparatus. This is just incomprehensible behavior by a President. https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-putin-press-conference-election-meddling-2018-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-putin-press-conference...

vxNsr 8y ago
> He has repeatedly sabotaged our relationship with traditional democratically-governed allies - and avoided criticizing Russia The same could be said for his predecessor. See Israel, Japan, hot mic with Medvedev. I think we see what we want to see and forgive "our guy" because we believe his intentions.
- mr_overalls 8y ago
  Can you provide specifics on Obama's actions re: Israel and Japan that you find objectionable?
  - vxNsr 8y ago
    Here's one article that explains the final "f u" obama gave to israel: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/world/middleeast/israel-benjamin-netanyahu-barack-obama.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/world/middleeast/israel-b... The constant calls for restraint on Israel's part as Israeli children as young as 6 months were being stabbed to death in their beds by "freedom fighters" lauded by PLO and PA media also comes to mind. The blind eye towards how PLO officials spoke to their own people (bloodthirsty talk of killing all the jews) vs what they said in English (calls for peace if only Israel was willing to compromise). But just googling "Obama and Israel" will give you tons more. Obama's weak stance on NK and china at the expense of Japanese security was seen as failing an ally. I'm wondering if you could provide concrete examples of Trump sabotage. I'm curious mostly because I'm guessing we're gonna see it very differently.
    - justin66 8y ago
      Just so nobody else wastes their time I thought I should point out that that NY Times link doesn't support any of the crazy stuff you're saying.
      - vxNsr 8y ago
        Just so we're clear, the NYT article is only about Obama choosing not to veto a resolution condemning Israel. Not sure what I said that was crazy?
      - vxNsr 8y ago
        here you go: https://www.haaretz.com/1.5177456 https://www.haaretz.com/1.5177456 https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4041106,00.html https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4041106,00.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/palestinians-celebrate-and-then-reluctantly-denounce-itamar-murders/2011/03/04/ABNZlOV_blog.html?utm_term=.e57bedac3845 https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/palesti...
    - mr_overalls 8y ago
      For starters, Trump doesn't seem to even comprehend the mutual defense pact that is the foundation of NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-nato-self-defense-montenegro.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-nato-s... Apart from that, he was generally a source of chaos at the 2018 NATO summit, 1) demanding that NATO allies increase per-GDP spending ahead of schedule or the US would "go it alone" (and hijacking a meeting already in progress to make these demands), 2) accusing Germany of being "totally controlled" by Russia, 3) and giving a parallel-reality final press conference touting that NATO partners had agreed to significant increases in spending (which said partners denied). https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/12/how-trumps-nato-summit-meltdown-unfolded https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/12/how-trumps-n...

buttcoinslol 8y ago

A useful idiot is still an asset, perhaps not knowingly.