7 ms·

Cargo bike is most excellent for these kind of trips. I take my 0 and 2 year old in an Urban Arrow to school / daycare.

by jankeymeulen 8y ago

adrianN 8y ago
Unfortunately they cost more than a used car. The Urban Arrow family is like 5000€.
- m_mueller 8y ago
  This always ignores running costs however. Parking and insurance alone is 200 USD/mo where I live. Electric bikes can be expensive to acquire but then they run on next to nothing.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    Of course. But imho the advantage of a cargo bike over a normal bike with a trailer isn't worth the extra cost. Not to mention that for poorer people it's often easier to pay higher running costs than coming up with a big chunk of cash up front (see Sam Vines' theory of economic inequality).
- dingaling 8y ago
  But the bicycle maintenance cost is trivial, the fuel is cheap and there are no licensing costs.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    Isn't it true that bicycle fuel (human food) is actually more expensive than gasoline or electricity? It has a much larger carbon footprint per mile anyway. And I spend way more of my time on bicycle maintenance than on car maintenance. So if my time is part of it, then that's got to be 10X the cost. But only because I earn more than a car mechanic per hour.
    - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
      Thought of that way, having to use a bicycle is part of what keeps folks poor - soaking up their time and the larger operating cost...
      - adrianN 8y ago
        Cycling is cheaper than driving. Calories are cheap: Cycling for one hour you burn maybe 500 calories. That's four table spoons of butter. Bicycle maintenance is cheap: I pay about 20 Euros a month because I ride a lot and don't do any repairs myself. You can easily save half of that if you're willing to get your hands dirty. Cycling is not much slower than driving: Average driving speed in Berlin is 25km/h. During rush hour it's 9km/h. It's not hard to average 15km/h on a bike, even during rush hour. 20km/h is doable if you're fit.
        JoeAltmaier 8y ago
        Surely it is, considering the purchase cost of a car. But the daily cost is not insignificant. And if you can't afford a car, you pay the daily cost forever. Cycling for an hour you burn maybe 2000 calories. That's a whole day's food. It can be your 2nd largest expense if you're poor. And the time spent on bicycle maintenance (tires, chain, wheels, adjustment etc) is 'easy to do yourself' for well-paid middle-class folks. After 12 hours in the factory or on your feet in a big box store, the time may not seem so cheap. Then add in job risk when you get a flat on the way to work. Not insignificant if you're on a clock at a minimum-wage job. Could lose that job. Its easy to enjoy bikes when well-employed and your time is your own. But for many they are part of being poor, part of the reason they stay poor.
        nradov 8y ago
        Your numbers are way off. Even elite pro cyclists are unable to burn 2000kcal/hr when racing. The estimate of 500kcal/hr is more realistic for regular people. Getting a flat is insignificant. You can change a tube in less than 5 minutes. New tubes and patch kits are very cheap. And cars also get flat tires.

Cargo bike is most excellent for these kind of trips. I take my 0 and 2 year old in an Urban Arrow to school / daycare.

adrianN 8y ago

Unfortunately they cost more than a used car. The Urban Arrow family is like 5000€.

m_mueller 8y ago
This always ignores running costs however. Parking and insurance alone is 200 USD/mo where I live. Electric bikes can be expensive to acquire but then they run on next to nothing.
- adrianN 8y ago
  Of course. But imho the advantage of a cargo bike over a normal bike with a trailer isn't worth the extra cost. Not to mention that for poorer people it's often easier to pay higher running costs than coming up with a big chunk of cash up front (see Sam Vines' theory of economic inequality).
dingaling 8y ago
But the bicycle maintenance cost is trivial, the fuel is cheap and there are no licensing costs.
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  Isn't it true that bicycle fuel (human food) is actually more expensive than gasoline or electricity? It has a much larger carbon footprint per mile anyway. And I spend way more of my time on bicycle maintenance than on car maintenance. So if my time is part of it, then that's got to be 10X the cost. But only because I earn more than a car mechanic per hour.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    Thought of that way, having to use a bicycle is part of what keeps folks poor - soaking up their time and the larger operating cost...
    - adrianN 8y ago
      Cycling is cheaper than driving. Calories are cheap: Cycling for one hour you burn maybe 500 calories. That's four table spoons of butter. Bicycle maintenance is cheap: I pay about 20 Euros a month because I ride a lot and don't do any repairs myself. You can easily save half of that if you're willing to get your hands dirty. Cycling is not much slower than driving: Average driving speed in Berlin is 25km/h. During rush hour it's 9km/h. It's not hard to average 15km/h on a bike, even during rush hour. 20km/h is doable if you're fit.
      - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
        Surely it is, considering the purchase cost of a car. But the daily cost is not insignificant. And if you can't afford a car, you pay the daily cost forever. Cycling for an hour you burn maybe 2000 calories. That's a whole day's food. It can be your 2nd largest expense if you're poor. And the time spent on bicycle maintenance (tires, chain, wheels, adjustment etc) is 'easy to do yourself' for well-paid middle-class folks. After 12 hours in the factory or on your feet in a big box store, the time may not seem so cheap. Then add in job risk when you get a flat on the way to work. Not insignificant if you're on a clock at a minimum-wage job. Could lose that job. Its easy to enjoy bikes when well-employed and your time is your own. But for many they are part of being poor, part of the reason they stay poor.
        nradov 8y ago
        Your numbers are way off. Even elite pro cyclists are unable to burn 2000kcal/hr when racing. The estimate of 500kcal/hr is more realistic for regular people. Getting a flat is insignificant. You can change a tube in less than 5 minutes. New tubes and patch kits are very cheap. And cars also get flat tires.